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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 17:31 
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There's been some news today: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/6/18654 ... ft-e3-2019

Summary:

* launching November in 14 countries, including UK
* launch will have "at least 31 games from 21 different publishers" (list here)
* initially you'll need a $10/£9 per month "Pro" sub (supports up to 4K/60)
* games are purchased outright for "similar prices to consoles", saved forever to your library
* next year, a free tier will be added that's capped to 1080p/30
* there will eventually be a catalog of older games that you can access without payment other than the monthly sub
* Baldur's Gate 3 announced, will only be on PC and Stadia
* "Stadia Founders Edition" is a $130/£120 bundle of the controller, a Chromecast Ultra, a three-month Pro for you, another three months of Pro for a buddy, and Destiny 2


Bandwidth stuff:
https://twitter.com/GoogleStadia/status ... 9487862784




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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:11 
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So it's £120 for the kit, you 'buy' the games for normal price, and pay a subscription on top of that to play them?

This is not what I think people were expecting.

Definitely one to file under 'wait and see'. I note the really clever stuff like clicking on a link next to a YT video, and the free tier, is a way off.

Not sure who target demographic is for this at launch, TBH.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:15 
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That's a spicy cost. Why would I pay a subscription if I pay full price on top for the games? Console price is lower than others, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:17 
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You don't need the subscription for games that you have bought.

I still don't think this is a very compelling pitch at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:20 
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So it looks like the subscription gets you the games that are added to the library over time, but any games you buy are in your collection regardless of an active sub, but if you stop paying the sub you lose access to the 'library' games. And I think you need the sub to get the 4K stream even on purchased games.

It's certainly not the launch I anticipated, there's a barrier to entry in terms of cost for new users, and I can't see it winning over existing PC or console gamers - maybe this is just the tech proving phase and the real big push will come when the free tier gets launched along with the YT integration and all that stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:23 
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Overall I don't think they really made a compelling pitch. Still feels like a solution in search of a problem, and doesn't feel like they have shown a strong vision for the future of gaming so far.

I'm not sure how sizeable the overlap is between the audience of people for whom console/PC style gaming is appealing but they don't want to own a console/PC, and people who are cool with buying a $70 controller and $10 a month subscription/$60 games is.

Kinda crazy to me that they are making some of the same mistakes OnLive made nearly a decade ago. I said at the time "a service that lets me stream last year's Assassin's Creed is not compelling when I already own three boxes I can play that on". I'm sceptical of this kind of game streaming in general, but surely the best approach is to show us a kind of play that is not possible with current console hardware? Games that actually take advantage of the format, and feel native to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:24 
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Hearthly wrote:
So it's £120 for the kit.

The kit is optional. Many people already own a Chromecast. It works with Chrome on any platform. And it works with other pads you probably already own; the Stadia controller is optional.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:30 
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LewieP wrote:
Overall I don't think they really made a compelling pitch. Still feels like a solution in search of a problem, and doesn't feel like they have shown a strong vision for the future of gaming so far.

I'm not sure how sizeable the overlap is between the audience of people for whom console/PC style gaming is appealing but they don't want to own a console/PC, and people who are cool with buying a $70 controller and $10 a month subscription/$60 games is.

Kinda crazy to me that they are making some of the same mistakes OnLive made nearly a decade ago. I said at the time "a service that lets me stream last year's Assassin's Creed is not compelling when I already own three boxes I can play that on". I'm sceptical of this kind of game streaming in general, but surely the best approach is to show us a kind of play that is not possible with current console hardware? Games that actually take advantage of the format, and feel native to it.

I suppose one difference is that Google don't necessarily need to make an overnight success of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 18:34 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
So it's £120 for the kit.

The kit is optional. Many people already own a Chromecast. It works with Chrome on any platform. And it works with other pads you probably already own; the Stadia controller is optional.

I don't think the target audience is people that already own a console or a gaming PC.

Because they already own a console or a gaming PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 19:35 
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markg wrote:

I suppose one difference is that Google don't necessarily need to make an overnight success of it.


That's a really good point. Plus it'll be in beta for at least three years.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 21:11 
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It was interesting to see btw at the apple oresentation that they now support xbox and ps4 controllers. Wondered if that was because if being the anti-stadia

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 21:28 
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Cras wrote:
markg wrote:

I suppose one difference is that Google don't necessarily need to make an overnight success of it.


That's a really good point. Plus it'll be in beta for at least three years.

And then be released and instantly canned

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 23:11 
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Only once they’ve released five alternative and non compatible game streaming platforms.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 0:02 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Only once they’ve released five alternative and non compatible game streaming platforms.


Each with a unique messaging service.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 0:17 
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Can you dig it?

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Hearthly wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
::sips tea::

;)


Yep, fine, you got me :)

TBH at that point I thought Stadia was an upgraded version of what had gone before in this space, (i.e. A better OnLive or suchlike), I didn't appreciate the scope of what Google were doing. I should have done more research into what Stadia really is, so yep, that's on me.

My understanding of the facts has changed, so my opinion has changed,


From time to time I have joined in with some of the ribbing dished out, but I just wanted to say what a charming and reasonable response here, top show gentlemen :hat:

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 0:19 
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Can you dig it?

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Also, Google knows heaps about me already, do I really want it to know that I'm also a bit shit at games too?

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:54 
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Sir Taxalot wrote:
Also, Google knows heaps about me already, do I really want it to know that I'm also a bit shit at games too?


Don't worry, they already know. Gaywood told them.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:27 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
So it's £120 for the kit.

The kit is optional. Many people already own a Chromecast. It works with Chrome on any platform. And it works with other pads you probably already own; the Stadia controller is optional.


It says here that if you want to get in at launch you need to buy the £120 hardware bundle.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019 ... -at-launch

Quote:
Those hoping to get involved on launch day this November will only be able to do so by purchasing Google's £119/$129.99 USD Founder's Edition bundle. This includes the Chromecast Ultra hardware for 4K and HDR streaming, a limited-edition Night Blue controller, a three-month subscription to Stadia Pro (which we'll get to in a moment), a three-month Stadia Pro subscription for a friend (known as a Buddy Pass), and first dibs on a Stadia name.


This looks like some sort of early access technology proving ground to me, I find it hard to believe there are loads of people who want to:

1) Pay £120 for access to a game streaming service
2) Pay again to 'buy' games to play on the service
3) Pay again via a sub to get access to the optimal version of those games
4) And will be satisfied with games 'sometimes' getting added to the paid for sub service

And this is before you even add in the abstraction of the streaming layer into the equation.

I'm not saying Stadia won't turn into something compelling over time, but at launch I just don't see it at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:46 
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Depending on how well it works, and how much the games cost, I could be tempted to buy a game to play on the service. Being as I have the bandwidth and a 4k monitor.
So I can see that use case panning out... possibly...

But, yes, paying £120 for the "founder" edition? I'll wait thanks.

On a sub note, I don't think that word means what they think it means...


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:50 
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You've got to be realistic at what sort of '4K' you're actually going to get at 35Mbps though, that shit is gonna be hella, hella compressed.

This will not look anything like a native 4K game from your console or PC.

And remember they don't have the advantage of Netflix style compression where they can run as many passes as they want ahead of time to get it super efficient, as a Netflix stream is always the same. For Stadia they have to do it on the fly as they have no idea what the player will be doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:51 
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It means the same as every other gaming use case of the word.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:00 
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Plus absolutely every use of the word in streaming video.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:01 
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But yes, for the aforementioned reason, definitely not the same as locally rendering it.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 
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Hearthly wrote:
You've got to be realistic at what sort of '4K' you're actually going to get at 35Mbps though, that shit is gonna be hella, hella compressed.

This will not look anything like a native 4K game from your console or PC.

And remember they don't have the advantage of Netflix style compression where they can run as many passes as they want ahead of time to get it super efficient, as a Netflix stream is always the same. For Stadia they have to do it on the fly as they have no idea what the player will be doing.


See "depending on how well it works" :D

It's all theory until I actually see it working on my PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:18 
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Mr Chonks wrote:
It means the same as every other gaming use case of the word.


I agree. This tipped me over the edge, my outright rage has been simmering for years.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:20 
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Trooper wrote:
See "depending on how well it works" :D

It's all theory until I actually see it working on my PC.


Oh for sure there's 'seeing how well it works' but then there's 'magic', which is what getting a decent 4K60 stream into 35Mbps would need to be.

And it's going to be so, so vulnerable to any bandwidth/lag spikes, even if you only get a little lurch once every few minutes, it's very quickly going to become extremely annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:24 
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Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
It means the same as every other gaming use case of the word.


I agree. This tipped me over the edge, my outright rage has been simmering for years.

Which word? Founder?

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:26 
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Hearthly wrote:
Oh for sure there's 'seeing how well it works' but then there's 'magic', which is what getting a decent 4K60 stream into 35Mbps would need to be.

35Mbps is the bare minimum, though - and it won't be "decent". I've got ten times that amount to play with, which is far more reasonable.

Whether or not it will use all that bandwidth is another question, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:28 
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Grim... wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
It means the same as every other gaming use case of the word.


I agree. This tipped me over the edge, my outright rage has been simmering for years.

Which word? Founder?


Aye.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:28 
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If the only way to get online at launch is to buy that founder's pack who are you meant to give the buddy pass to?

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:31 
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Grim... wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Oh for sure there's 'seeing how well it works' but then there's 'magic', which is what getting a decent 4K60 stream into 35Mbps would need to be.

35Mbps is the bare minimum, though - and it won't be "decent". I've got ten times that amount to play with, which is far more reasonable.

Whether or not it will use all that bandwidth is another question, of course.


No way will they be pushing a solid 350Mbps down to anyone. Or 100Mbps for that matter.

I think 35Mbps is what you'll get.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:48 
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Grim... wrote:
If the only way to get online at launch is to buy that founder's pack who are you meant to give the buddy pass to?


:DD :facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:18 
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Grim... wrote:
If the only way to get online at launch is to buy that founder's pack who are you meant to give the buddy pass to?

I assume the buddy pass grants access to the recipient, otherwise what's the point?


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:26 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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I call dibs when Hearthly buys the founder pack.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:45 
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Even internally, people are confused about what is what here :) I think this image helps

Image

Grim... wrote:
If the only way to get online at launch is to buy that founder's pack who are you meant to give the buddy pass to?


Excellent question. I've asked. In the meantime, perhpas this is the (disappointing) answer:
https://store.google.com/product/stadia ... rs_edition

Quote:
⁴Buddy Pass will be sent within six months of delivery of your Founder's Edition. Buddy Pass must be redeemed within three months of receipt. Valid Buddy Pass entitles the recipient to access Stadia and a three month trial of Stadia Pro. Stadia Controller not included.


I'm fairly sure this is only about slowing the initial scaling up of the release.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 13:16 
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Will the f2p version of Destiny 2 be playable on Stadia Base? As in Destiny 2: Not The Collection?


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 13:58 
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I can buy games whenever I want?!

Boy-howdee!

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 14:08 
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Yeah Steam have been such cunts recently, what with all these restrictions on when you can give them money for things.

Hopefully someone will invent an online shop that's open 24/7, that shit would take over the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 14:52 
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Don't worry, Google-Shill Gaywood is here to save the day!


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 14:57 
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Accusations of being a paid shill really don't sting very hard when they literally do pay you yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 15:17 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Don't worry, Google-Shill Gaywood is here to save the day!

I think that's extremely unfair and very hurtful.


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 15:31 
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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 15:31 
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God bless you giphy.

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:15 
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Wait, you said earlier the free option was capped at 30fps

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:23 
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Mr Chonks wrote:
Wait, you said earlier the free option was capped at 30fps

Oh yeah, I did, via the reporting from the Verge. The screengrab above is from here so I guess that was incorrect; the free tier does 1080p60.

Hopefully this post isn't too shilly for the Shill Police!!!!!eleventy


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:31 
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It’s as shilly as we’ve come to expect from the likes of you

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:32 
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exactly the sort of response I'd expect from someone in the pockets of Big Envelope


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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:43 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Big Envelope

:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:45 
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Remember you won’t get better service than ordering your Stadia Founders edition to be delivered by Royal Mail Special Delivery Pre 9am - Not the Cheapest but Definitely the BestTM

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 Post subject: Re: Google Stadia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 16:52 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
exactly the sort of response I'd expect from someone in the pockets of Big Envelope

:D

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