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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:26 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also, something else we're mulling over: Should you be able to say "I'm going to ignore this person, and I want them to ignore me".

Probably not much value here, I think. People can simply log out or use an incognito window to read your posts, so you're not gaining much.

Hmm. I'm reconsidering this. Perhaps there is value in, quite explicitly, Alice telling Bob that "I don't want you to interact with me." If Alice mutes [1] Bob, Bob doesn't know -- resulting in scenarios where Bob replies to Alice then wonders why he's being ignored. If Alice blocks [2] Bob, Bob knows about it, and can take action on that knowledge -- like modifying his behaviour in the future, perhaps, if we assume Alice is acting in good faith and Bob was being a dick.

On the other hand, Bob might go thermonuclear at the insult and cause drama, of course. Swings and roundabouts.

Grim..., can you pull some anonymised statistics of current block functionality usage? Product decisions are better with data.

[1] Using this in the modern social network meaning ie. Alice doesn't see Bob's posts. phpbb calls this "Foe" or "ignore."
[2] Again, using modern terminology ie. now Bob doesn't see Alice's posts. phpbb doesn't have this currently, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:31 
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"anonymised statistics of current block functionality usage"

:DD

About 20-odd people post to the forum and only a fraction of them will use the ignore function... so that's quite the data sample you've got there.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:36 
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So, you've blocked person a, thet can't see your posts.
Person B quotes you, but has not blocked person a, thereby getting around the block. Not a good look.

Or...
You've blocked person a, they can't see your posts, or anyone quoting you. With said people being unaware that not everyone can see their posts.
Basically at this point, you're being a dick.

Just doesn't work.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:41 
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I think you should be able to see the topics started by someone you have as a Foe, but the content of the post is removed and replaced by "This topic was started by someone currently on your Foe list".

All other posts by that person in the thread are removed as currently happens.

This mirrors as closely as possible the current functionality, whilst also bringing back full threads of content that are not currently accessible if you Foe the topic starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:42 
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Cavey wrote:
"anonymised statistics of current block functionality usage"

:DD

About 20-odd people post to the forum and only a fraction of them will use the ignore function... so that's quite the data sample you've got there.

To be used on exactly that sample of people, so it's 100% relevant. It's not like the forum is being used as a test bed to scale up to anywhere else, so your point is moot.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:43 
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Lonewolves wrote:
It irks me a bit when a topic doesn't interest me but I can't leave it unread. So I either have to click 'mark topics read' or click into it and back to general discussion. That might just be me being weird though.


I'm the same. I've no interest in cars for instance, but I always click into the thread so that it's marked as read. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:45 
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I think topic muting is a discussion for another thread, and probably a lot of work for Grim... to implement (it would need interfaces for you to be able to unmute for example), but a discussion that would be worth having nonetheless.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:47 
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Mr Dave wrote:
So, you've blocked person a, thet can't see your posts.
Person B quotes you, but has not blocked person a, thereby getting around the block. Not a good look.

Or...
You've blocked person a, they can't see your posts, or anyone quoting you. With said people being unaware that not everyone can see their posts.
Basically at this point, you're being a dick.

Just doesn't work.

You can't see quotes of people you've put on ignore, either. But yeah, I agree it's not a great idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:49 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
phpbb doesn't have this currently, I think.

Imagine that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:50 
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Cavey wrote:
"anonymised statistics of current block functionality usage"

:DD

About 20-odd people post to the forum and only a fraction of them will use the ignore function... so that's quite the data sample you've got there.


There's a point, how many unique posters does BEEX have in the average week these days?

I'm sure we have had stats for such things in the past.

It's a bit of a shame really that even in its now somewhat diminished form, folks here still feel the urge/need to ignore each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:51 
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Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
phpbb doesn't have this currently, I think.

Imagine that.

I mean, this ancient and decrepit fork doesn't. I guess we should concede that the phpbb team might have added some features since you stood Beex up.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:53 
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Quote:
It's a bit of a shame really that even in its now somewhat diminished form, folks here still feel the urge/need to ignore each other.

Ermergehd victerm blamahmung!

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:56 
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Mr Russell wrote:
Cavey wrote:
"anonymised statistics of current block functionality usage"

:DD

About 20-odd people post to the forum and only a fraction of them will use the ignore function... so that's quite the data sample you've got there.

To be used on exactly that sample of people, so it's 100% relevant. It's not like the forum is being used as a test bed to scale up to anywhere else, so your point is moot.


I don't agree; how is knowing how a tiny data sample of people use a current function that is being used in a way entirely differently to that now being proposed going to help you make "product decisions" about whether or not to add this hitherto never-considered function? That said, though, I don't actually care; the issue for me is that such a thing is even being considered in the first place.

I just wish people could be more honest. If Grim... or whomever just wishes people like me would simply quietly feck off and let him enjoy his forum with like-minded mates, and sent me a PM along those lines (or, hell, rang me up), then I'd be sad but would entirely understand, and would comply. Just save all this nasty bullshit; I find it all so dishonest, apart from anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:02 
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Cavey wrote:
I just wish people could be more honest. If Grim... or whomever just wishes people like me would simply quietly feck off and let him enjoy his forum with like-minded mates, and sent me a PM along those lines (or, hell, rang me up), then I'd be sad but would entirely understand, and would comply. Just save all this nasty bullshit; I find it all so dishonest, apart from anything else.


What nasty bullshit? No one, aside from you right now, has attempted to bring any drama to this conversation; it's all been perfectly polite constructive chat about forum functionality. It's also possibly worth noting that not a single person has mentioned you here so maybe assuming everything is about you is a touch premature.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:06 
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So, stats.

In the last month, 56 individual posters wrote something.
Of those people, 8 ignore at least one other person.
Of those people, 12 are ignored by at least one other person.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:07 
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An argument!

Bamba and Cavey must ignore each other IMMEDIATELY to resolve the conflict.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:08 
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Quick privacy note: I can see (with some database join gubbins) who ignores whom. I very rarely do though, unless something is going wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:09 
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DavPaz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
So when they were banned they were banished to a subforum with the other troublemakers? Sweet!

No, once they were banned no-one could see their posts or topics except for other people that were banned.

So... yes?

Not really. Banned people can still see all the posts and threads of unbanned people, and often join in with the discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:10 
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I think you're missing the point, Cavey. There's an ignore function that people use today, for whatever personal wide and varied reasons, to improve their personal experience of the forum. That's perfectly valid and entirely up to them to do so. The only question under consideration is whether there are ways to improve how that works. You can't always expect people to get along or want to read everything that other people post when it's a public forum open to all.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:11 
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I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:12 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
phpbb doesn't have this currently, I think.

Imagine that.

I mean, this ancient and decrepit fork doesn't. I guess we should concede that the phpbb team might have added some features since you stood Beex up.

I've been keeping an eye on things, in case they drop security patches. Basically, fuck all has changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:13 
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Bamba wrote:
It's also possibly worth noting that not a single person has mentioned you here

That's because they've all got you both on ignore ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:14 
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MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore.

Do you want to know your numbers?

;)

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:14 
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Ignoring people isn't at all 'snowflakey'. If someone regularly posts things that either annoy or upset you, putting them on ignore is a way to enjoy the forum more. Every form of online interaction has had the ability to ignore going back twenty years or more.

I agree that a block is unnecessary. Having said that though, as I mentioned before, it's pretty standard for most social media.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:15 
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Grim... wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore.

Do you want to know your numbers?

;)

I'm guessing all 12 have me on ignore.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:15 
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MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.

Sounds like you're the one getting wound up here, tbh. Maybe you need a safe space somewhere where people can't ignore you?

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:16 
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MrChris wrote:
Grim... wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore.

Do you want to know your numbers?

;)

I'm guessing all 12 have me on ignore.

Somehow, everyone has you on ignore.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:18 
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Cras wrote:
Ignoring people isn't at all 'snowflakey'. If someone regularly posts things that either annoy or upset you, putting them on ignore is a way to enjoy the forum more. Every form of online interaction has had the ability to ignore going back twenty years or more.

Well, that's a point of view, certainly. My point was I'm somewhat surprised that anyone gets that pissed off by interactions on here, given what it is. God knows I've been pissed off by people here on occasion (including people I like, as you don't always get on with everyone and everyone has off days, including me, you'd be surprised to hear) but the grown up answer is to just call them a cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:19 
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MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore.


I know you're more open-minded than this. Getting wound up by someone is just one reason why you might Foe someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:20 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.

Sounds like you're the one getting wound up here, tbh. Maybe you need a safe space somewhere where people can't ignore you?

Well, if you want to be needlessly confrontational and read in to my post whatever makes you happy, that's up to you chap. I was just joining in a conversation, I wasn't aware I'd said anything to warrant that sort of a response, but again, up to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:22 
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MrChris wrote:
Cras wrote:
Ignoring people isn't at all 'snowflakey'. If someone regularly posts things that either annoy or upset you, putting them on ignore is a way to enjoy the forum more. Every form of online interaction has had the ability to ignore going back twenty years or more.

Well, that's a point of view, certainly. My point was I'm somewhat surprised that anyone gets that pissed off by interactions on here, given what it is. God knows I've been pissed off by people here on occasion (including people I like, as you don't always get on with everyone and everyone has off days, including me, you'd be surprised to hear) but the grown up answer is to just call them a cunt.


You might ignore someone because you find them boring, not because you angrily disagree with them. I suspect that's a more frequent use case here.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:23 
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Bamba wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I just wish people could be more honest. If Grim... or whomever just wishes people like me would simply quietly feck off and let him enjoy his forum with like-minded mates, and sent me a PM along those lines (or, hell, rang me up), then I'd be sad but would entirely understand, and would comply. Just save all this nasty bullshit; I find it all so dishonest, apart from anything else.


What nasty bullshit? No one, aside from you right now, has attempted to bring any drama to this conversation; it's all been perfectly polite constructive chat about forum functionality. It's also possibly worth noting that not a single person has mentioned you here so maybe assuming everything is about you is a touch premature.


In my opinion, implementing a function which forces another user to be denied access to your posts is an unpleasant, nasty development, for obvious reasons that I have already explained (most especially if it is done by a group, hardly an inconceivable development I would've thought; thereby rendering the user denied of most/all content and therefore de facto banned). That it is even being openly considered at all is most disappointing, to me at least.

As for whom this type of functionality could be used against, and not wishing to be unduly paranoid, it doesn't take a genius to work out those few, among the 20 or so regular posters here, for whom such a thing could be deemed to be "useful" and/or relevant. That's sad, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:23 
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Mr Russell wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore.


I know you're more open-minded than this. Getting wound up by someone is just one reason why you might Foe someone.

I can see that yes, but I don't recall seeing any examples of the sorts of things that I think you're getting at. Maybe I miss a lot of the interactions that cause this then? I'm not in here ad much as I was a few years ago, to be fair.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:25 
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MrChris wrote:
Well, that's a point of view, certainly. My point was I'm somewhat surprised that anyone gets that pissed off by interactions on here, given what it is.

Why would being pissed off with someone be the only reason you'd block them? Perhaps they post spoilers, or they keep repeating things you're bored of reading, or any number of reasons. It doesn't have to be boiling rage. It might just be "I'm bored of this person." Ignoring them feels like a much more mature response than, as you suggest, 'calling them a cunt."


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:26 
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MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.


I must admit, that is precisely how I feel about it, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:28 
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Cras wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Cras wrote:
Ignoring people isn't at all 'snowflakey'. If someone regularly posts things that either annoy or upset you, putting them on ignore is a way to enjoy the forum more. Every form of online interaction has had the ability to ignore going back twenty years or more.

Well, that's a point of view, certainly. My point was I'm somewhat surprised that anyone gets that pissed off by interactions on here, given what it is. God knows I've been pissed off by people here on occasion (including people I like, as you don't always get on with everyone and everyone has off days, including me, you'd be surprised to hear) but the grown up answer is to just call them a cunt.


You might ignore someone because you find them boring, not because you angrily disagree with them. I suspect that's a more frequent use case here.

Well I'm sure that's the case, yes, but a simpler expedient would be not reading their WALL OF TEXT TITLER posts. Even CUS occasionally wrote stuff worth reading.

So I wouldn't bother putting anyone on ignore but I guess other people clearly find it useful.I can't really entirely understand why but each to their own. I'm not suggesting it gets turned off but I don't buy into it as a necessity for somewhere like this.

I guess I'm more against the idea of a block function - its fine for Twitter but the dynamic is very different in a forum and it could have unintended consequences.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:31 
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Before getting angry about it though, it's worth noting that everyone seems to agree - a block is a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:33 
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MrChris wrote:
I guess I'm more against the idea of a block function - its fine for Twitter but the dynamic is very different in a forum and it could have unintended consequences.

It already is :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:33 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Well, that's a point of view, certainly. My point was I'm somewhat surprised that anyone gets that pissed off by interactions on here, given what it is.

Why would being pissed off with someone be the only reason you'd block them? Perhaps they post spoilers, or they keep repeating things you're bored of reading, or any number of reasons. It doesn't have to be boiling rage. It might just be "I'm bored of this person." Ignoring them feels like a much more mature response than, as you suggest, 'calling them a cunt."

I obviously wasn't being serious about calling them a cunt you noodle.

I'm going to end up repeating myself now, but I guess I can't understand the necessity for that - even some of the most irritating people who've been here have said stuff worth reading from time to time. I'm not proposing getting rid of the ignore function just expressing surprise that it should be felt to be a necessity.

Cras wrote:
Before getting angry about it though, it's worth noting that everyone seems to agree - a block is a bad idea.

No one is getting angry about anything are they?

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:34 
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Lol

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:35 
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Cras wrote:
Lol

?

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:38 
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MrChris wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.

Sounds like you're the one getting wound up here, tbh. Maybe you need a safe space somewhere where people can't ignore you?

Well, if you want to be needlessly confrontational and read in to my post whatever makes you happy, that's up to you chap. I was just joining in a conversation, I wasn't aware I'd said anything to warrant that sort of a response, but again, up to you.

If you think that was a particularly robust response then etc etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:38 
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MrChris wrote:
I'm going to end up repeating myself now, but I guess I can't understand the necessity for that - even some of the most irritating people who've been here have said stuff worth reading from time to time. I'm not proposing getting rid of the ignore function just expressing surprise that it should be felt to be a necessity.

a) I don't think that's true for everyone ie. not everyone feels that everyone else here occasionally says stuff worth reading. Citation: the current use of ignore function.
b) even if it were true, there's still a cost/benefit analysis if "from time to time" is long enough, so it doesn't mean ignoring is an irrational decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:40 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.

Sounds like you're the one getting wound up here, tbh. Maybe you need a safe space somewhere where people can't ignore you?

Well, if you want to be needlessly confrontational and read in to my post whatever makes you happy, that's up to you chap. I was just joining in a conversation, I wasn't aware I'd said anything to warrant that sort of a response, but again, up to you.

If you think that was a particularly robust response then etc etc.

Well if you genuienly meant that as something that wasnt needlessly snarky then I apologise, but it did rather seem to be edging into the personal for no reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:42 
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MrChris wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm still genuinely amazed that anyone gets sufficiently wound up by anything on here that they need to put anyone on ignore. It's a bit safe spacey snowflake to be honest. The block function you're talking about is a step far too far and it's beyond comprehension that anyone could feel the need to prevent another user here seeing their posts. It could also ruin the forum for people just because someone else has decided they don't like the other person.

Sounds like you're the one getting wound up here, tbh. Maybe you need a safe space somewhere where people can't ignore you?

Well, if you want to be needlessly confrontational and read in to my post whatever makes you happy, that's up to you chap. I was just joining in a conversation, I wasn't aware I'd said anything to warrant that sort of a response, but again, up to you.

If you think that was a particularly robust response then etc etc.

Well if you genuienly meant that as something that wasnt needlessly snarky then I apologise, but it did rather seem to be edging into the personal for no reason.

It wasn't *needlessly* snarky, no. It was more making the point that those who rail against "safe spaces" and absolute free speech with no consequences are usually those who justify having them in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:43 
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Also, don't forget that you don't have free speech on Beex.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:44 
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Grim... wrote:
Also, don't forget that you don't have free speech on Beex.

Exactly. Cras is wrong. It's not a public forum. A lot of people don't even know what a public forum is.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:45 
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It's a forum open to the public, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:46 
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Grim... wrote:
It's a forum open to the public, though.


Only those with internet though. Which seems discriminatory.

I demand equal access to BEEX for all.


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 Post subject: Re: Ignore this (not really)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:47 
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Grim... wrote:
It's a forum open to the public, though.

Well yeah, and that's what people mean when they say it usually. A 'public forum' is something very specific and it pertains to the government not being able to stop you saying what you like (as long as it isn't what they define as hate speech of course).

We're getting a bit OT here though now.

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