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 Post subject: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 16:00 
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So, let's say I have two rooms, we'll call them A & B.

In room A, I have my modem (or router, or whatever it's called when they're the same thing), and that's dishing out a wi-fi connection and is also plugged into a bunch of stuff.

In room B, I have some wi-fi connectable devices, which, for the time being, we'll assume are perfectly capable of connecting to the wi-fi in location A without any significant issues, however, I also have some devices that need plugging in.

Can I just take my router (I guess this may depend on what router it is), stick it in room B, connect it to the wi-fi from A, and then plug stuff in so that it shares out the magical internet goodness, or do I need something else?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 16:11 
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To semi-answer my own question, my current router (Western Digital MyNetN900C) doesn't look like it will do this (unless I put it in room B and connect it to room A via a cable).

So, having established that I need something else, what is that something else? Do I just look for a router that supports client/bridge mode, or is there a better way to do this?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 16:16 
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There are a number of ways you could do it. A hub would work but you may run into bandwidth issues.

Ethernet over powerline would be cheap and cheerful (this is what I do).

A switch would be the "best" idea. Connect the switch to your router and the devices in room B into the switch. Would need a bit of cable management though.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 17:09 
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Bearing in mind I'm rubbish at this you may have to elaborate on those.

I thought a hub was like a router, but less, er, good?

Ethernet over powerline is an option, although I probably need more sockets putting in.

I don't understand how a switch into a router solves the problem of getting the internet from room A to room B? Doesn't that just help if I have a shitload of devices in room B (I do, but I'll worry about that later).


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 17:28 
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Works like this handy diagram I found.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 18:50 
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So when you say connect the switch to "your router", you don't mean the one that I've already said won't connect to the modem over wi-fi?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 18:52 
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Wait, wait, wait... How many routers have you got? Do you need it to be in room A, as phone extensions are easier than ethernet runs.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 18:57 
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Joans wrote:
So when you say connect the switch to "your router", you don't mean the one that I've already said won't connect to the modem over wi-fi?

No, forget your 2nd router. Connect the switch to the modem/router over Ethernet. You don't need two routers.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:00 
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I have a Virgin superhub or whatever they're called nowadays, in room A. I have one (1) router/NAS, which I believe is redundant in this conversation as I can't put it in room B and connect it to the superhub (unless I wire it up in some way).

What do I need that I can put in room B, connect to the wi-fi network that the superhub is spewing out and share it's goodness with multiple (wired) connections in room B.
Bonus points if it boosts the wi-fi signal as well, but wireless devices in room B seem to be ok at connecting to the wi-fi anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:05 
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I get it now. If you don't want a wire, you'll have to check if your spare router can be run as a WiFi bridge. It's possible, but unlikely.

Myp is right (urg!), you should run an ethernet cable and get a little switch


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:06 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
So when you say connect the switch to "your router", you don't mean the one that I've already said won't connect to the modem over wi-fi?

No, forget your 2nd router. Connect the switch to the modem/router over Ethernet. You don't need two routers.

Ah, so when you said cable management, you meant cables everywhere.

I don't want to run a cable from room A to room B. Ethernet over powerline is an option if necessary, but as I can sit in room B and connect to the wi-fi, I assume I can get something that will connect to the wi-fi and let me plug other bits into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:09 
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DavPaz wrote:
I get it now. If you don't want a wire, you'll have to check if your spare router can be run as a WiFi bridge. It's possible, but unlikely.

Myp is right (urg!), you should run an ethernet cable and get a little switch

As per my second post, it appears it doesn't.

Hmm, I don't like that idea either (Myp, whoever he is, being right), but I suppose that as there's a load of other cabling that needs doing, running an Ethernet cable is an option, just not one that's happening in the short term.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:13 
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I think you can get powerline plugs that broadcast a WiFi signal can't you?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:14 
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Yep:

https://www.comms-express.com/blog/revi ... s-wifi-uk/


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:16 
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And note that there's one there that has a pass through for the actual power plug so you don't need to lose sockets to use them.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:19 
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Joans wrote:
I don't want to run a cable from room A to room B. Ethernet over powerline is an option if necessary, but as I can sit in room B and connect to the wi-fi, I assume I can get something that will connect to the wi-fi and let me plug other bits into it.

Yes. The term you are looking for is “wireless bridge”: connects to a wireless network on one side, has an Ethernet connection on the other. Most WiFi network extenders will have a bridge mode. I have a little Netgear thingy that cost about £25 and has a mode for this.

They often only have one port, so you might still want a switch as well to share that wired connection with various things in Room B.

Here’s an example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01560JGQW/ ... DAbMH7XEBC

These come with all the usual caveats about wireless network performance, range, speed, reliability, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:20 
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Personally, I’d get some decent quality poweline Ethernet adapters rather than use a wireless bridge. They’re more reliable in my experience, although that can vary with the specific way your house is wired.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:20 
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https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best- ... rking-kit/


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:20 
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Joans wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
So when you say connect the switch to "your router", you don't mean the one that I've already said won't connect to the modem over wi-fi?

No, forget your 2nd router. Connect the switch to the modem/router over Ethernet. You don't need two routers.

Ah, so when you said cable management, you meant cables everywhere.

I don't want to run a cable from room A to room B. Ethernet over powerline is an option if necessary, but as I can sit in room B and connect to the wi-fi, I assume I can get something that will connect to the wi-fi and let me plug other bits into it.

You would need one long cable running between rooms. I assume you'll have cables everywhere anyway if you say you have lots of things to plug into it.

You could try putting your other router into bridge/repeater mode if it can do that. Or get a separate repeater that has Ethernet ports. But it'll be shit. Get a switch.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:23 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Personally, I’d get some decent quality poweline Ethernet adapters rather than use a wireless bridge. They’re more reliable in my experience, although that can vary with the specific way your house is wired.

This is what I do, because it's the option with the best balance of convenience and quality.

Wireless bridges are shit and should be thrown in the bin. A network switch will give you the best connection quality but you have to run cables.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 19:47 
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Joans wrote:
I don't want to run a cable from room A to room B. Ethernet over powerline is an option if necessary, but as I can sit in room B and connect to the wi-fi, I assume I can get something that will connect to the wi-fi and let me plug other bits into it.

You can always run ethernet cable outside the house, going through exterior walls. I've done this to connect up various wifi dead zones in the house. It's a lot easier and less messy than having loads of cable running along skirting and door frames. Granted, my house is semi detached so I can go from front to back along the side of the house.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 20:22 
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How do you weatherseal the cables, DB? Run them through PVC?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 20:24 
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I could go round the outside of the house, but it seems like overkill for this problem (and it's not a wifi dead zone), and I'd have to run it about as far round the house as possible.

I will investigate the powerline option.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 20:38 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
So when you say connect the switch to "your router", you don't mean the one that I've already said won't connect to the modem over wi-fi?

No, forget your 2nd router. Connect the switch to the modem/router over Ethernet. You don't need two routers.

Ah, so when you said cable management, you meant cables everywhere.

I don't want to run a cable from room A to room B. Ethernet over powerline is an option if necessary, but as I can sit in room B and connect to the wi-fi, I assume I can get something that will connect to the wi-fi and let me plug other bits into it.

You would need one long cable running between rooms. I assume you'll have cables everywhere anyway if you say you have lots of things to plug into it.

You could try putting your other router into bridge/repeater mode if it can do that. Or get a separate repeater that has Ethernet ports. But it'll be shit. Get a switch.


Cables everywhere behind a unit != Cables running between rooms.

Can I not use a switch in conjunction with the powerline adaptors?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 20:41 
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Apologies Joans, I've just realised that I'd completely misread your question and thought you were looking to extend the WiFi into room B when that's actually not the case at all. I'm an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 20:45 
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Bamba wrote:
Apologies Joans, I've just realised that I'd completely misread your question and thought you were looking to extend the WiFi into room B when that's actually not the case at all. I'm an idiot.


I just assumed you were following beex recommendations 101. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 21:23 
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Joans wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Apologies Joans, I've just realised that I'd completely misread your question and thought you were looking to extend the WiFi into room B when that's actually not the case at all. I'm an idiot.


I just assumed you were following beex recommendations 101. :)


Nah, if I was going down that route I'd have recommended you bought an entirely new house with a different layout. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 21:37 
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You can get 2 powerline adaptors, Devolo offers various speeds, I used 500mb but there is 1200 and maybe even higher (not checked for a while)

One in room A connected to your router and one in room B connected to a switch, Netgear do some cheap managed switches these days (search for them on Amazon) which are pretty good for the money.

Or you can run a cable from room A from the router into the switch in room B if you have a route that's not too hard.

I had no end of hassle with Devolo, to be fair most people have no issues. I was using a mixture of Ethernet and wireless ones.

These days I have a Velop Mesh system for wireless and I'm lucky that I have an easy route around my house to cable everything else through 1gb switches


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:20 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
How do you weatherseal the cables, DB? Run them through PVC?

It's much easier to just get exterior grade cables, which is what we did in Manchester. The only difference is that the outer sheath is UV stable.

I will probably get some to sling a run down to the garage, where I will stick another Linksys velop node.

Actually, I should also do that around the house when I rip out the aerial cabling too. In going to have to fill the holes with something right?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:20 
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Get an XBox 360


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:23 
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Also don't buy Linksys velop. The bt mesh WiFi is apparently actually both good and highly cost effective however.

Mesh WiFi is the future, everyone should do it.

Just not with Linksys velop.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:29 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Get an XBox 360

I've got one, that's part of the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:31 
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Buy an Xbox one.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:33 
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BikNorton wrote:
Buy an Xbox one.

I've got an original xbox, does that count?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:39 
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Well it would remove the need to get your network to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:44 
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Joans wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
So when you say connect the switch to "your router", you don't mean the one that I've already said won't connect to the modem over wi-fi?

No, forget your 2nd router. Connect the switch to the modem/router over Ethernet. You don't need two routers.

Ah, so when you said cable management, you meant cables everywhere.

I don't want to run a cable from room A to room B. Ethernet over powerline is an option if necessary, but as I can sit in room B and connect to the wi-fi, I assume I can get something that will connect to the wi-fi and let me plug other bits into it.

You would need one long cable running between rooms. I assume you'll have cables everywhere anyway if you say you have lots of things to plug into it.

You could try putting your other router into bridge/repeater mode if it can do that. Or get a separate repeater that has Ethernet ports. But it'll be shit. Get a switch.


Cables everywhere behind a unit != Cables running between rooms.

Can I not use a switch in conjunction with the powerline adaptors?

You can, but it's overkill at that point and you'll have a bottleneck using EoP. May as well use a much cheaper hub or bridge.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 22:59 
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So, basically, just get a router that has a bridge mode?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:03 
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Joans wrote:
So, basically, just get a router that has a bridge mode?

Why? That's more expensive too. Just get a dumb bridge or hub. If you're not using routing or switching there's no point paying more for the privilege.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:24 
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BikNorton wrote:
Also don't buy Linksys velop. The bt mesh WiFi is apparently actually both good and highly cost effective however.

Mesh WiFi is the future, everyone should do it.

Just not with Linksys velop.


I remember you had Velop when I posted about it, did it not work in the end?

Only had one issue with a node I put in the shed 130ft from the house, kept dropping out, which is odd as when i turned it off there was a good 60% signal wireless connection from the one in the house in the same area. It's at the front of the house now

True the BT is much cheaper and I have a few mates on it and they love it, my dad is getting it as well

Mesh is the way forward, more so for those using shitty ISP routers, my Dads BT home hub is a nightmare, issues with Echo and problems with 5Ghz and 2.4GZ all the time


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:30 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Joans wrote:
So, basically, just get a router that has a bridge mode?

Why? That's more expensive too. Just get a dumb bridge or hub. If you're not using routing or switching there's no point paying more for the privilege.

Am I not using routing? I'm not sure I even know anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:35 
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I kept the velop but it's still not really living up to its promises.

A firmware update improved nodes' recognition that they should use intermediate hops but we still get sluggish performance on things like Netflix until it settles out.

In fact, ho ho, it dropped on my phone while typing this.

Being able to run cable to the garage and put a node in there will be a game changer. The new reduced cost nodes will help justify pushing at the extremities too.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:36 
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@joans you want a switch, not a router. Companies like tplink have made switches so cheap there's no point buying a hub. A hub will dumbly send all data to all ports; a switch will semi-intelligently figure out what is where and drop where it knows it can. A router is, in household terms, just the thing the ISP sends you, and that's that.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:40 
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I can't help but feel I'm going in circles at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:41 
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That's networking for you. Tplink gigabit switch:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00ZOOJXEG


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:46 
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That's exactly what I'm looking at right now. If I get a powerline adaptor, plug one end into my modem and the other end into that switch. Can I also plug in, say a ps4 to the switch, and it will connect to the internet?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:47 
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Joans wrote:
I can't help but feel I'm going in circles at this point.


You should listen to everything everyone's said; but at the same time you should ignore everything you've heard. Anything else is mad, but also the most important advice you will ever hear.

I honestly don't know why you would think it's difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:48 
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Gah, just reread you don't want wires. Sorry.

Edit: Yes, that will definitely work.

But maybe just buy bt whole house WiFi, even though it's more expensive. I did not enjoy powerline ethernet. Maybe if you have good wiring, nothing 'noisy' like an older fridge or freezer, and modern powerline has fixed stuff it will.work for you


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:51 
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At a guess, and I've not had this checked out yet, we have shitty wiring.

This has been the epitome of beex recommendation threads. Thank you all.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:53 
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Joans wrote:
That's exactly what I'm looking at right now. If I get a powerline adaptor, plug one end into my modem and the other end into that switch. Can I also plug in, say a ps4 to the switch, and it will connect to the internet?

Yes.

In one room:
Router <—ethernet—> powerline doodad 1

In second room:
Powerline 2 <—ethernet—> switch <—ethernet—> devices

The powerline acts exactly as if it’s a piece of ethernet cable stretching from one room to another. The switch lets you have multiple things hanging off the end of the single length of “ethernet” cable that the powerline is acting as. You can plug as much stuff into the switch as it has ports and everything will get connected.

Shitty wiring can be an issue for powerline, although the newer ones are better than they were years ago. Order decent ones from Amazon and keep the box. Try them out for a few days and be prepared to return them if they’re unreliable (as in: the connection drops a lot. They’ll have LEDs on that turn red, or something similar.)


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Networking Questions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:54 
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I'm not sure how whole home wi-fi will help with all my wired devices, unless I'm misreading something?


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