The Last Jedi - spoiler

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Also, arising from Luke’s arc, “failure is the greatest teacher” is up there with “do or not do, there is no try” in terms of parable. It feels very coherent to me.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 13:16

Coherent as long as you accept that you can do literally anything with the force now.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Also, arising from Luke’s arc, “failure is the greatest teacher” is up there with “do or not do, there is no try” in terms of parable. It feels very coherent to me.

Also incredibly consistent with the theme that a force-wielder's worst enemy is always themselves.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 13:46

Grim... wrote:

Coherent as long as you accept that you can do literally anything with the force now.

There’s been new Force skills demonstrated in basically every movie, so yeah.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Curiosity wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Coherent as long as you accept that you can do literally anything with the force now.

There’s been new Force skills demonstrated in basically every movie, so yeah.

Quite. I'm not a massive fan of it but it's nowhere near James Bond's "hey, Q fortunately gave me an esoteric gadget that turns out to be perfect for this bizarre scenario I'm now in" levels. The films have never suggested that Force powers are a menu that all Force users pick from; rather, that they are varied across individuals, and change over time.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 14:13

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Curiosity wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Coherent as long as you accept that you can do literally anything with the force now.

There’s been new Force skills demonstrated in basically every movie, so yeah.

Quite. I'm not a massive fan of it but it's nowhere near James Bond's "hey, Q fortunately gave me an esoteric gadget that turns out to be perfect for this bizarre scenario I'm now in" levels. The films have never suggested that Force powers are a menu that all Force users pick from; rather, that they are varied across individuals, and change over time.

I thought it depended on your midichlorian level as to what you could unlock.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Midichlorians earn you loot crates. They might have swanky force powers in or they might just have new Jedi robes.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 14:44

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Curiosity wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Coherent as long as you accept that you can do literally anything with the force now.

There’s been new Force skills demonstrated in basically every movie, so yeah.

Quite. I'm not a massive fan of it but it's nowhere near James Bond's "hey, Q fortunately gave me an esoteric gadget that turns out to be perfect for this bizarre scenario I'm now in" levels.

Bear in mind that they got rid of that for a reason.

I'm in the "why did Like hide on an island for years and years rather than fixing the problem" camp, I think.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Which in itself is totally consistent with Obi-wan hiding in a cave and Yoda hiding in a swamp. He even explains it - he thinks the Jedi are the problem, rather than a solution.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Cras wrote:

Which in itself is totally consistent with Obi-wan hiding in a cave and Yoda hiding in a swamp. He even explains it - he thinks the Jedi are the problem, rather than a solution.

Sounds like horseshit to me. Even Mark Hamill said so and HE IS LUKE SKYWALKER and Mrs Hearthly agrees with him and Jnr was upset.

I bet if George were still running things it wouldn't have gone down like that.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Hearthly wrote:

I bet if George were still running things it wouldn't have gone down like that.

No, they’d have been shit instead.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 15:11

I liked his realisation that the Force continues to exist whether the Jedi or Sith are around to use it or not, and that they aren't the be-all and end-all of it. Ben Solo also comes to this conclusion in his own way.

George Lucas made one very good, one good, one ok and three bad Star Wars films. Disney has made three consistently decent efforts already.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Hearthly wrote:

I bet if George were still running things it wouldn't have gone down like that.

No, they’d have been shit instead.

How dare you, this is the man who made Red Tails!

Attachment:

Screenshot 2017-12-29 at 14.12.37.png

myp · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 15:14

The main criticism in here is from the guy who still hasn't seen the film.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 15:37

Hearthly wrote:

Cras wrote:

Which in itself is totally consistent with Obi-wan hiding in a cave and Yoda hiding in a swamp. He even explains it - he thinks the Jedi are the problem, rather than a solution.

Sounds like horseshit to me. Even Mark Hamill said so and HE IS LUKE SKYWALKER and Mrs Hearthly agrees with him and Jnr was upset.

I bet if George were still running things it wouldn't have gone down like that.

No he didn’t.

Hamill said that he was initially against the idea of Luke in the film, but admits he was wrong and that Rian Johnson’s idea was better.

Here’s his ‘controversial’ quote:

Quote:

“I’ve had trouble accepting what [Rian Johnson] saw for Luke but again, I mean, I have to say, having seen the movie I was wrong. I think being pushed out of your comfort zone is a good thing because if I was just another benevolent Jedi training young padawans, we’ve seen it!”

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

There was rather more to it than that:

https://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-mark-hamill-reaction/

I see he's backtracking somewhat now, probably because he doesn't want to blow his chance to come back as Ghost Luke in the next one.

Quote:

“I said to Rian, I said ‘Jedis don’t give up’,” Hamill explained in an interview currently making the rounds on YouTube. “I mean even if he had a problem, maybe take a year to try and regroup… but if he made a mistake he would try and right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference, but, it’s not my story anymore. It’s somebody else’s story, and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective.”

“That’s the crux of my problem,” he continued. “Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well, in this version, see. I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s ‘Jake’ Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker.”

Nevertheless, despite Hamill’s obvious frustration, he would go on to say, “I still haven’t accepted it completely, but it’s only a movie. I hope people like it, I hope they don’t get upset, and I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man that they needed for this job.”

Hamill’s concerns with how Johnson chose to depict Luke in The Last Jedi are well-documented. In an interview back in May, Hamill noted that he told Johnson, “I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character.” He would downplay those remarks the following month, but even at a press junket just days before The Last Jedi‘s theatrical release, Hamill would reiterate that his and Johnson’s vision for Luke simply didn’t line up.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Why would Hamill be the best judge of what makes the best story? He’s not a screenwriter or a director.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Hearthly wrote:

Then she started getting annoyed with herself for getting upset, as the film is a 12A she was asking 'How did the film upset me when I'm 13' and also noted 'I'm very glad I didn't take any of the younger animals it would have been too upsetting for them.’

I don’t understand what this is supposed to mean. Schindler’s List is a PG but I’d still find it upsetting if I watched it today.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Hearthly wrote:

Then she started getting annoyed with herself for getting upset, as the film is a 12A she was asking 'How did the film upset me when I'm 13' and also noted 'I'm very glad I didn't take any of the younger animals it would have been too upsetting for them.’

I don’t understand what this is supposed to mean. Schindler’s List is a PG but I’d still find it upsetting if I watched it today.

But you’re not 13, or Hearthly Jnr, and neither do you have her experiences or understand the world in the same way. Of course you feel differently, she’s a very different young person than you are as an adult. I think Hearthly’s just providing an insight to the film through the eyes of his child and her experiences.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14359

How the hell is Schindler‘s list a PG!? I watched it this month and it bothered me.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

It's educational.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

Also it's a 15 according to the BBFC website.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Satsuma wrote:

How the hell is Schindler‘s list a PG!? I watched it this month and it bothered me.

I mis-typed, it's a 15 for "strong language, violence and emotional distress."

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Dec 29, 2017 20:12

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Why would Hamill be the best judge of what makes the best story? He’s not a screenwriter or a director.

Yes, he is

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:27

Lonewolves wrote:

Luke's story arc from IV to VIII is probably the most interesting thing about the entire Star Wars franchise.

Meets his sister - >Wants to bang his sister -> Finds out his sister is his sister -> Hides from world.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:16

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Luke's story arc from IV to VIII is probably the most interesting thing about the entire Star Wars franchise.

Meets his sister - >Wants to bang his sister -> Finds out his sister is his sister -> Hides from world.

Sounds like a plot for every village in Shropshire

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:32

In the defence of the last Jedi

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/star ... ign=buffer

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:22

The fact that it needs defending is quite telling.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:26

Yes, I think there is a need to defend it, as it has been aggressively attacked.

Some snarling 'fans' as the film is not what they wanted. I remember Empire being hated at the time.

myp · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:43

Grim... wrote:

The fact that it needs defending is quite telling.

So did Empire at the time. It received very mixed reviews on release.

myp · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:44

I'm not reading one post by Kovacs

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:45

I'm not sure I can think of many other films where the people that liked it have felt the need to explain to people who didn't like it why they're wrong.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:49

KovacsC wrote:

Yes, I think there is a need to defend it, as it has been aggressively attacked.

It's a film. It doesn't have feelings.

KovacsC wrote:

'fans'

Just fans, not 'fans'.

KovacsC wrote:

I remember Empire being hated at the time.

When you were, what, four?

myp · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:50

Because the people that don't like it are making hour-long YouTube screeds about how SJWs are ruining their childhood I guess.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 13:51

Oh yeah, I'm sure every single person that didn't like it is like that :roll:

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Grim... wrote:

I'm not sure I can think of many other films where the people that liked it have felt the need to explain to people who didn't like it why they're wrong.

Ghostbusters

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Grim... wrote:

I'm not sure I can think of many other films where the people that liked it have felt the need to explain to people who didn't like it why they're wrong.

Every single film discussion in Beex’s history has gone like this.

myp · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 14:02

Grim... wrote:

Oh yeah, I'm sure every single person that didn't like it is like that :roll:

I'm sure they aren't, but it doesn't help your cause.

Here's a good article about how fans and critics reacted to Empire at the time. https://www.themarysue.com/empire-last- ... reactions/

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 14:04

I think it is bizarre on both sides of people making videos of why they hate/like it.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 14:07

Lonewolves wrote:

I'm not reading one post by Kovacs

Curiosity · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 14:22

Grim... wrote:

Oh yeah, I'm sure every single person that didn't like it is like that :roll:

No, but I don’t think anyone is bothered by people who didn’t like the film in general.

It’s more that there has been a ton of stuff saying people didn’t like the film because it’s a betrayal of the principles of Star Wars, and how it thematically is against everything before, and that it should be struck from the canon, just because it doesn’t fit with their idea of what fanfic they wanted to see.

In that sense, people will defend it, because obviously the film does fit well with the others. Now if people didn’t like the hyperspace bit or the casino bit or the set up for the ship running out of fuel and so on then fair enough.

But pretending that not expanding on the previous lore or altering a direction, or a Jedi going into hiding is a new thing is palpably daft. These are the kind of things that have happened in every single Star Wars film ever. So when the loudest shouts are all nonsense, I’d expect shouting in the other direction too.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

Grim... wrote:

I'm not sure I can think of many other films where the people that liked it have felt the need to explain to people who didn't like it why they're wrong.

Sounds like the entirety of the internet to me.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 14:55

Cras wrote:

Grim... wrote:

I'm not sure I can think of many other films where the people that liked it have felt the need to explain to people who didn't like it why they're wrong.

Ghostbusters

Orly?
What don't people like about Ghostbusters?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

The fact it was unfunny tedious shite.

That it was chock full of bangable wimmin was its one plus.*
Much better than the unfunny white middle aged ugly portly men of the originals.

* not being serious.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 15:07

Oh, the new Ghostbusters. I thought you meant the old one.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Grim... wrote:

Oh, the new Ghostbusters. I thought you meant the old one.

Yeah, the new one.

myp · **Posted:** Sat Dec 30, 2017 15:29

New Ghostbusters wasn't the greatest film in the world but it was entertaining enough. Not the worst Ghostbusters film, obviously.

And nice for women and girls to have science nerd comedy role models for once.

DBSnappa · **Posted:** Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:01

Well, I’ve finally seen it. It’s too long. It’s not the first film where everything that happens from 30 or so mins in, to 30 or so from the end does little for the narrative arc of the actual film, but it was noticeable.

romanista · **Posted:** Wed Jan 03, 2018 19:50

MrChris wrote:

Squirt wrote:

MrChris wrote:

But how did he know there were cloaked ships?

He just offered to hack the mainframe on the ship to steal all their secrets, and found the cloaked ships that way.

Hack the mainframe on the empire ship, how would they know about the cloaked ships?

Ican;'t remember how, but this seemed logicaly explained at the moment it was made clear that the codebreaker played double play..

mean while, i went with my daughter today (hence i skipped this thread until now...

she liked it..and so did i... (expected to be disappointed)

meanwhile, the was a star wars exhibition here as well, so we went on the photo with BB7.. the exhibition was a bit overpriced, but we had a good father daughter day... the merchandise was crap though..

and here a long read.. a bit meta on what others think

https://longreads.com/2018/01/03/star-wars-last-jedi/

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 03, 2018 20:45

That one is called R2-D2, not BB7.

Be Excellent To Each Other

The Last Jedi - spoiler

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