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Hollywood Assaults
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11093
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Author:  Grim... [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 21:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Mimi wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Wait, I used the word "woke" about twenty times in the last week.

Am I not allowed to do that?

Were you talking about what time your alarm went off?

Nope. I used it to mean "more aware of other people".

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 21:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

"Get woke, Scully!"

Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 22:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

Louis CK confirms the accusations are true.

Quote:
"At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true,” C.K. writes. “But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question, it’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly.”


Well that's a shitty thing for sure, it's inexcusable behaviour, and I suspect it pretty much means the end of his career, it's hard to imagine his material working now, or indeed him getting away with performing it.

He seems genuinely sorry about it and maybe he's dealt with a lot of stuff since he did those things, but I'm hard pushed to think of any situation where asking a woman if you can get your dick out and wank in front of her is anything other than atrocious.

I hope history doesn't get rewritten though, and his work to date effectively be removed from existence. (Not that I can imagine there being any fresh work from him in the future, which seems appropriate.)

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 22:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

This is really good http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/louis-ck-is-done.html

Quote:
Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, and Harvey Weinstein’s entire body of work has been retroactively contaminated by multiple accounts accusing them of sexually predatory behavior ranging from sexual harassment to rape. These stories change our perception of their art, whether we would like them to or not. This is not just unavoidable, it’s a necessary part of processing art and coming to terms with it.


When disturbing stories about respected artists come from the distant past, we treat them dispassionately, as just one detail among many. Present-tense or near-present-tense revelations hit us differently because we share the same world as the artist, breathe the same air, feed the same economy. We think of them as contemporaries, even as people we know. This kind of revelation changes the relationship between the artist and the art, in a way that places an unasked-for, unfair burden on the audience. This is what’s happening culturewide. And it’s not the fault of people who didn’t report it, or audiences who aren’t sophisticated enough to separate the art from the artist. It’s the fault of the artists for being secret creeps or criminals, and the fault of the system for making it possible for them to act this way for years without being punished.

The allegations against C.K. also constitute a form of betrayal, against an audience that trusts artists to make edgy, even unlikable work, and gives them the benefit of the doubt when they wade into the deepest, darkest parts of their imagination.

A well-crafted, intelligent story about the impact of rape, domestic violence, pederasty, and so forth is already tough to watch. It becomes a horrendous experience once you add the possibility that the writer or director actually did what they’re depicting, and might be getting off on making the audience squirm by representing it while not fessing up to their relationship with it. It’s a power move, rooted in the thrill of subterfuge and shock: an artist’s version of indecent exposure.

Author:  Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 22:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
This is really good http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/louis-ck-is-done.html

Quote:
Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, and Harvey Weinstein’s entire body of work has been retroactively contaminated by multiple accounts accusing them of sexually predatory behavior ranging from sexual harassment to rape. These stories change our perception of their art, whether we would like them to or not. This is not just unavoidable, it’s a necessary part of processing art and coming to terms with it.


When disturbing stories about respected artists come from the distant past, we treat them dispassionately, as just one detail among many. Present-tense or near-present-tense revelations hit us differently because we share the same world as the artist, breathe the same air, feed the same economy. We think of them as contemporaries, even as people we know. This kind of revelation changes the relationship between the artist and the art, in a way that places an unasked-for, unfair burden on the audience. This is what’s happening culturewide. And it’s not the fault of people who didn’t report it, or audiences who aren’t sophisticated enough to separate the art from the artist. It’s the fault of the artists for being secret creeps or criminals, and the fault of the system for making it possible for them to act this way for years without being punished.

The allegations against C.K. also constitute a form of betrayal, against an audience that trusts artists to make edgy, even unlikable work, and gives them the benefit of the doubt when they wade into the deepest, darkest parts of their imagination.

A well-crafted, intelligent story about the impact of rape, domestic violence, pederasty, and so forth is already tough to watch. It becomes a horrendous experience once you add the possibility that the writer or director actually did what they’re depicting, and might be getting off on making the audience squirm by representing it while not fessing up to their relationship with it. It’s a power move, rooted in the thrill of subterfuge and shock: an artist’s version of indecent exposure.

Though I think I’d have found it difficult to actually put into words, I think that final paragraph gives my feelings very well, and Russell and I had a relatively long discussion on a very similar train of thought a few days ago.

Author:  myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 22:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Yep, agreed.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 23:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Quite. I mentioned somewhere that many of Spaceys scenes in House of Cards, particularly the physical and/or sexualised ones, no longer feel like they were acted out.

Author:  Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 23:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Quite. I mentioned somewhere that many of Spaceys scenes in House of Cards, particularly the physical and/or sexualised ones, no longer feel like they were acted out.

Oh, very much this. The forceful, predatory stairwell scenes of young staff feel even more uncomfortable in retrospect.

Author:  Pundabaya [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 23:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

meh, I can still watch Chris Benoit matches.

Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 23:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Also if there are any unsolved serial killer cases in the States, especially involving Gwyneth Paltrow's head in a box and dead fat men who've been force-fed spaghetti until their stomach went pop, I'd be paying Mr Spacey a visit and asking a few searching questions.

Author:  Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 23:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Pundabaya wrote:
meh, I can still watch Chris Benoit matches.

Oh gosh. I did not know who he was so looked him up on Wikipedia and should not have done that. Really, really difficult to read so I bailed reading it part way through.

On a related but lighter note, is it usual to watch old wrestling matches?

Author:  Pundabaya [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 23:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Yes, very much so. You just have to look at the amount of old matches on Youtube, or the amount of old content on WWE's network.

Author:  myp [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 0:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Wrestling is rubbish no matter how new or old it is

Author:  Satsuma [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 0:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Hell, Dr Dre is a billionaire thanks to the world and he’s an admitted woman beater.

Author:  MaliA [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 0:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Pundabaya wrote:
Yes, very much so. You just have to look at the amount of old matches on Youtube, or the amount of old content on WWE's network.


And it has the slightly less successful MaliCool


Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

https://m.facebook.com/EllenPage/posts/ ... 2835577449

Ellen Page has called out Brett Ratner, who has long been rumoured to be trash.

Author:  LewieP [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Louis CK's career won't be over. He'll go away for a bit and then come out with new self-critical self-financed and independently released material.

Unlike (most) actors, he doesn't need much infrastructure/industry support to make new material. He can self-finance anything easily, he has independently released plenty of stuff just directly on his website, and he has enough of a fanbase to support doing so.

Edit: and yeah, on fictional depictions of abuse, when watching a movie, you want to be questioning the motivation of the characters, not the filmmakers.

Author:  RuySan [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... accusation

Hope Solo is a great name.

Author:  devilman [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Richard Dreyfuss too.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

There's going to be nothing left to watch at this rate.

Author:  RuySan [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Are you telling me I can't watch football anymore?

Author:  Cras [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

George Takei

Author:  myp [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 13:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Cras wrote:
George Takei

Yep. Basically it is time to throw all your heroes in the bin

Author:  DavPaz [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 13:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Cras wrote:
George Takei

That one's a real shocker after all the work he's done for gay rights and Japanese Americans. Still, 36 years ago. I wonder how much has changed since then.

Author:  Grim... [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 14:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Lonewolves wrote:
Cras wrote:
George Takei

Yep. Basically it is time to throw all your heroes in the bin

Tim Berners-Lee?

Author:  Pundabaya [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 14:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Lonewolves wrote:
Wrestling is rubbish no matter how new or old it is

Fuck's sake, Myp, I'd almost started to li...tolerate you, then you say something ridiculous like that. Professional Wrestling is both the pinnacle of theatre and an amazing athletic performance. It's literally better than that thing what you like. Y'know the one. *Looks at notes* the only thing written here is "Myp blows goats" so we'll have to go with that. Pro-wrestling is better than you blowing a goat.

Author:  myp [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 14:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Cras wrote:
George Takei

Yep. Basically it is time to throw all your heroes in the bin

Tim Berners-Lee?

If you like

Author:  myp [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 14:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Pundabaya wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Wrestling is rubbish no matter how new or old it is

Fuck's sake, Myp, I'd almost started to li...tolerate you, then you say something ridiculous like that. Professional Wrestling is both the pinnacle of theatre and an amazing athletic performance. It's literally better than that thing what you like. Y'know the one. *Looks at notes* the only thing written here is "Myp blows goats" so we'll have to go with that. Pro-wrestling is better than you blowing a goat.

Sorry, I was just doing my Pundie Bear impression in *looks at notes* any other thread

Author:  Pundabaya [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 14:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Quote:
Tim Berners-Lee



Not The Goodies as well?

Author:  Curiosity [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 14:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Lonewolves wrote:
Wrestling is rubbish no matter how new or old it is


Incorrect.

Author:  myp [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 15:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Curiosity wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Wrestling is rubbish no matter how new or old it is


Incorrect.

See my previous post

Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 20:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

So I am finally getting round to watching Baby Driver, but then without warning A WILD SPACEY APPEARS.

I will try extra hard not to enjoy any of the bits that he's in.

Attachment:
rockspaceytriedtofuckmyhamster.JPG

Author:  LewieP [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 21:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3tbnWMc-Q

Author:  Pundabaya [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Weird, I watched Baby Driver tonight as well.

Author:  KovacsC [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 17:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

DavPaz wrote:
Cras wrote:
George Takei

That one's a real shocker after all the work he's done for gay rights and Japanese Americans. Still, 36 years ago. I wonder how much has changed since then.



I find this one hard to believe. George posted dening it.

Author:  myp [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 17:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

KovacsC wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Cras wrote:
George Takei

That one's a real shocker after all the work he's done for gay rights and Japanese Americans. Still, 36 years ago. I wonder how much has changed since then.



I find this one hard to believe. George posted dening it.

Why do you find it hard to believe?

Author:  Satsuma [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 18:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/g ... ex-1057333

Author:  Dr Zoidberg [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 19:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Lonewolves wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Cras wrote:
George Takei

That one's a real shocker after all the work he's done for gay rights and Japanese Americans. Still, 36 years ago. I wonder how much has changed since then.



I find this one hard to believe. George posted dening it.

Why do you find it hard to believe?


Possibly because it seems out of character with what we know about him and how he has behaved?

Author:  KovacsC [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Cras wrote:
George Takei

That one's a real shocker after all the work he's done for gay rights and Japanese Americans. Still, 36 years ago. I wonder how much has changed since then.



I find this one hard to believe. George posted dening it.

Why do you find it hard to believe?


Possibly because it seems out of character with what we know about him and how he has behaved?


Yes this.

Author:  myp [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Jesus Christ

Author:  DavPaz [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Out of character? Like Saville? Rolf? Cosby? Character means fuck all to an actor.

Author:  Mimi [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Lonewolves wrote:
Jesus Christ

Him too?!

Truly, this is the time for people to just bin their heroes.

Author:  myp [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

DavPaz wrote:
Out of character? Like Saville? Rolf? Cosby? Character means fuck all to an actor.

Or any kind of abuser really. To be good at it they have to hide in plain sight.

Author:  KovacsC [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

This is what George put..

Friends,
I'm writing to respond to the accusations made by Scott R. Brunton. I want to assure you all that I am as shocked and bewildered at these claims as you must feel reading them.
The events he describes back in the 1980s simply did not occur, and I do not know why he has claimed them now. I have wracked my brain to ask if I remember Mr. Brunton, and I cannot say I do. But I do take these claims very seriously, and I wanted to provide my response thoughtfully and not out of the moment.
Right now it is a he said / he said situation, over alleged events nearly 40 years ago. But those that know me understand that non-consensual acts are so antithetical to my values and my practices, the very idea that someone would accuse me of this is quite personally painful.
Brad, who is 100 percent beside me on this, as my life partner of more than 30 years and now my husband, stands fully by my side. I cannot tell you how vital it has been to have his unwavering support and love in these difficult times.
Thanks to many of you for all the kind words and trust. It means so much to us.
Yours in gratitude,
George

Author:  Malc [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

KovacsC wrote:
This is what George put..

Friends,
I'm writing to respond to the accusations made by Scott R. Brunton. I want to assure you all that I am as shocked and bewildered at these claims as you must feel reading them.
The events he describes back in the 1980s simply did not occur, and I do not know why he has claimed them now. I have wracked my brain to ask if I remember Mr. Brunton, and I cannot say I do. But I do take these claims very seriously, and I wanted to provide my response thoughtfully and not out of the moment.
Right now it is a he said / he said situation, over alleged events nearly 40 years ago. But those that know me understand that non-consensual acts are so antithetical to my values and my practices, the very idea that someone would accuse me of this is quite personally painful.
Brad, who is 100 percent beside me on this, as my life partner of more than 30 years and now my husband, stands fully by my side. I cannot tell you how vital it has been to have his unwavering support and love in these difficult times.
Thanks to many of you for all the kind words and trust. It means so much to us.
Yours in gratitude,
George



As Satsuma says hinted


Author:  flis [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Lonewolves wrote:
Jesus Christ


I can see why you react like this but sometimes I think your way of communicating can be as bad as that of those reacting from the other side. Which I think is what Grim... was alluding to earlier, when you were replying to Ruysan.

People not automatically siding with the victim doesn't make them a bad person or an idiot for thinking any other way - you shouldn't be throwing your hands ds in the air - if you want to help people's attitudes change, you need to explain your point of view. People obviously don't get it, it's clearly not apparent to everyone why victim-blaming is a result of the type of social conditioning that gives abusers power and the ability to abuse unfettered for decades.

Without discussion, there'll never be an understanding and there will never be change. Shutting people down with derision won't help anybodies cause. It's a difficult subject to navigate, otherwise it wouldn't be such a divisive issue in bloody 2017.

When people say "I find that hard to believe" I don't automatically believe that means they are saying the accuser or victim is lying. I think alot of people just find it hard to accept that their personal hero or someone they think highly of, could do the things they're being accused of. It's a reaction, based on someone they think they know. There is a difference between disbelief and accusing someone else of lying.

Author:  Grim... [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Or Jesus has been accused of sexual assault.

[edit] Oh, we've done that joke, have we? Fuck y'all, than

Author:  Mimi [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

Grim... wrote:
Or Jesus has been accused of sexual assault.

[edit] Oh, we've done that joke, have we? Fuck y'all, than

:D

Author:  myp [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

flis wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Jesus Christ


I can see why you react like this but sometimes I think your way of communicating can be as bad as that of those reacting from the other side. Which I think is what Grim... was alluding to earlier, when you were replying to Ruysan.

People not automatically siding with the victim doesn't make them a bad person or an idiot for thinking any other way - you shouldn't be throwing your hands ds in the air - if you want to help people's attitudes change, you need to explain your point of view. People obviously don't get it, it's clearly not apparent to everyone why victim-blaming is a result of the type of social conditioning that gives abusers power and the ability to abuse unfettered for decades.

Without discussion, there'll never be an understanding and there will never be change. Shutting people down with derision won't help anybodies cause. It's a difficult subject to navigate, otherwise it wouldn't be such a divisive issue in bloody 2017.

When people say "I find that hard to believe" I don't automatically believe that means they are saying the accuser or victim is lying. I think alot of people just find it hard to accept that their personal hero or someone they think highly of, could do the things they're being accused of. It's a reaction, based on someone they think they know. There is a difference between disbelief and accusing someone else of lying.

My response to RuySan was precise and carefully chosen. The response I got from that showed his hypocrisy when it comes to men "growing balls" or whatever other hyper-masculine comment he made.

Sorry if all my comments aren't as well chosen but sometimes these threads exasperate me. It may well come out that the accuser is lying about Takei. This potentially becomes more likely as time goes on and no one else comes out to accuse him. However people's judgement becomes clouded when it comes to people they like.

Kov's reaction was something I've seen time and time again when it comes to someone they admire. Nothing against him personally, it's just frustrating.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hollywood Assaults

IIRC Takei is the first of the recent batch of accusations where the accused has flat out said "this is not something that happened", isn't it? I find that interesting.

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