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Hollywood Assaults https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11093 |
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Author: | MaliA [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:40 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: MaliA wrote: Mr Russell wrote: woke? Stupid word. Means "aware of social injustices and stuff like that" By all means call words of AAVE origin stupid. Makes you appear very woke. I think the word bassinet is stupid, too. |
Author: | RuySan [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:43 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
markg wrote: RuySan wrote: Hearthly wrote: So what's the standard here? Is there a time cut-off point? Do some abusers get a pass and others don't? Is there a 'behaviour' standard that someone has to fall below to be ostracised? There are no standards. Or maybe only double standards. Or maybe evolving standards. What? Doesn't mike Tyson still has lots of roles in cinema and tv appearances? He isn't dead. |
Author: | markg [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:48 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Well the extent to which something will get overlooked depends enormously on who their fans are to begin with. So maybe it's just possible that people who like a comedian such as Louis CK might hold him to a somewhat higher standard of behaviour than fans of a person who they idolise for their ability to knock seven bells of shit out of someone. |
Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:48 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Hearthly wrote: Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Or as someone put it on Twitter "fuck you Louis CK, for being part of the problem while making bank off appearing to be part of the solution." Allegations. Accusations. Is this how we find people guilty of stuff now? http://www.twopartyopera.com/comic/if-t ... -are-true/ |
Author: | Grim... [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:52 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
RuySan wrote: Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and people still find him awesome and hilarious, apparently. Convicted and jailed, though. Does serving his time make a difference? |
Author: | Hearthly [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:58 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: So we're basically at 'It really looks as if this guy is guilty so we'll go with that and assume he is'. And so we get tweets like this. Attachment: Screenshot 2017-11-10 at 10.57.28.png
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Author: | MaliA [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:01 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Grim... wrote: RuySan wrote: Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and people still find him awesome and hilarious, apparently. Convicted and jailed, though. Does serving his time make a difference? Shipley police released a statement on Facebook yesterday saying that a burglar was going to be released from prison tomorrow and that we should all make sure our doors are locked and have something or others as his MO was to snap the locks. I was pretty fucked off at this. |
Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:02 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Grim... wrote: RuySan wrote: Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and people still find him awesome and hilarious, apparently. Convicted and jailed, though. Does serving his time make a difference? Tyson is a potential outlier here though. He was a sportsman who wasn't part of a team, so could keep taking fights* and rebuild his profile away from the previous offence. Whereas an actor or team sportsman needs someone to employ them to do that, which would be harder to achieve, but clearly not impossible. Also its a different world now, and I think the perception of the offense is rightly far worse today than it would have been, and the mud will stick harder. I don't think the accusations against spacey would have got a look in 20 years ago (and indeed, didn't). *of course people could have refused to fight him. |
Author: | DavPaz [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:03 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: MaliA wrote: Mr Russell wrote: woke? Stupid word. Means "aware of social injustices and stuff like that" By all means call words of AAVE origin stupid. Makes you appear very woke. So it's from non-whites it can't be stupid? I expect more from you. Tut, tut. |
Author: | Cras [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:03 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Grim... wrote: RuySan wrote: Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and people still find him awesome and hilarious, apparently. Convicted and jailed, though. Does serving his time make a difference? It sort of has to, or our entire concept of criminal justice is nonsense. |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:03 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Hearthly wrote: Doctor Glyndwr wrote: So we're basically at 'It really looks as if this guy is guilty so we'll go with that and assume he is'. And so we get tweets like this. Attachment: Screenshot 2017-11-10 at 10.57.28.png I don’t think that’s a particularly awful message. It’s saying that she doesn’t know what’s true but as there are multiple accusations he has done wrong he should speak up and either make a statement of his innocence or otherwise. |
Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:04 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
DavPaz wrote: Lonewolves wrote: MaliA wrote: Mr Russell wrote: woke? Stupid word. Means "aware of social injustices and stuff like that" By all means call words of AAVE origin stupid. Makes you appear very woke. So it's from non-whites it can't be stupid? I expect more from you. Tut, tut. It's cultural appropriation is what it is. |
Author: | markg [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:07 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Cras wrote: Grim... wrote: RuySan wrote: Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and people still find him awesome and hilarious, apparently. Convicted and jailed, though. Does serving his time make a difference? It sort of has to, or our entire concept of criminal justice is nonsense. I don't think that our criminal justice system means that you are automagically redeemed in the eyes of everyone once you have served your time. I think even after serving their time a celebrity rapist should keep their fucking head down and forget about ever being a celebrity again. I mean, he couldn't even get a job as a porter in a hospital with that record. |
Author: | RuySan [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:08 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Grim... wrote: RuySan wrote: Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and people still find him awesome and hilarious, apparently. Convicted and jailed, though. Does serving his time make a difference? Didn't that football player also served time and people were appalled that he was getting to play football again after being released? (in the end he was cleared of charges). I'm all for the proper reinsertion of convicted felons in society, don't get me wrong (i'm really against a public sex offenders list, for example). |
Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:11 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
RuySan wrote: It's also shitty for all of suddenly cutting ties and erase everything these people are associated with. A movie or a TV Show has way more talent and people involved that put their effort on them. Notably, the Netflix announcements originally ran that Season 6 would be the last series, but there were rumours of a spinoff and then changed such that they "won't be producing House of Cards with Kevin Spacey in the future". Season 5 ended at a point that he could be readily written out without too much disturbance anyway. |
Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:12 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
People saying "but what if the women are making it up" should read the NYT piece. It has a lot of corroborating evidence, including people who the women told years ago, other people involved, emails from CK himself to the women, etc etc. Multiple women have independently told very similar stories. If there's no truth, how does that happen, in your mind? Is it a conspiracy? Are they all in on it together? To what end? How did Gawker report on this years ago? What about stuff like this? This is a meticulously researched story that took weeks to write. It has passed through the NYT's fact checking process. It's not a gossip rag. It's paywalled so full text is below. ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! |
Author: | markg [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Yeah fucking hell. I'm not a juror or even someone in a position to affect Louis CK in any way so what on the face of it seems like massively most obvious explanation for all these different accusations is enough for me to change my opinion of him. |
Author: | asfish [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:25 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Attitudes to this among the famous and powerful to this behaviour are unlikely to change. The behaviour will change though as the slightest suggestion of anything is now a career ender. It's a little uncomfortable how quickly people have pulled the rug from under Louis CK without any evidence of guilt though. There is a fair bit to the article though so can see why HBO and others would act this way |
Author: | GazChap [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:25 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Mimi wrote: It’s saying that she doesn’t know what’s true but as there are multiple accusations he has done wrong he should speak up and either make a statement of his innocence or otherwise. The police wouldn't make him speak up, the Miranda rights are very specific about the right to stay silent. Anyone embroiled in all of this who is innocent really can't win - if they protest their innocence, people won't believe them. If they stay silent, the silence is treated as a tacit admission of guilt. |
Author: | RuySan [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:34 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
asfish wrote: Attitudes to this among the famous and powerful to this behaviour are unlikely to change. The behaviour will change though as the slightest suggestion of anything is now a career ender. It's a little uncomfortable how quickly people have pulled the rug from under Louis CK without any evidence of guilt though. There is a fair bit to the article though so can see why HBO and others would act this way Even if it's true, doesn't the fact that it happened 15 years ago, and that he's been trying to make up for it (also by apologising to the victims), make up for anything? Isn't absurd that all of sudden everyone and every organisation is distancing from him, like if he had the black plague? |
Author: | asfish [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:53 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
RuySan wrote: asfish wrote: Attitudes to this among the famous and powerful to this behaviour are unlikely to change. The behaviour will change though as the slightest suggestion of anything is now a career ender. It's a little uncomfortable how quickly people have pulled the rug from under Louis CK without any evidence of guilt though. There is a fair bit to the article though so can see why HBO and others would act this way Even if it's true, doesn't the fact that it happened 15 years ago, and that he's been trying to make up for it (also by apologising to the victims), make up for anything? Isn't absurd that all of sudden everyone and every organisation is distancing from him, like if he had the black plague? The story in the NYT is quite detailed and as DG said it's not some fake news rag. He has a lot of comedy material around the same topics he has been accused of doing in real life. Publicity and Perception are a huge for someone like Louis CK, so if bad people will distance themselves Then, of course, his silence is damning, but he can't win there |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:55 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
GazChap wrote: Mimi wrote: It’s saying that she doesn’t know what’s true but as there are multiple accusations he has done wrong he should speak up and either make a statement of his innocence or otherwise. The police wouldn't make him speak up, the Miranda rights are very specific about the right to stay silent. Anyone embroiled in all of this who is innocent really can't win - if they protest their innocence, people won't believe them. If they stay silent, the silence is treated as a tacit admission of guilt. I don’t think she is suggesting anyone be forced by the police to speak up? The way I read it was that she was saying ‘if you’re innocent, say so. If you have a different version of events, say so... refusing to reply isn’t helping you or anyone’ but that may be just how I read it. |
Author: | GazChap [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 13:09 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Yeah, what I was getting at was that Roseanne (and many other people) are encouraging him to speak out, when actually that may end up harming any defence that he eventually mounts should it see a court of law, and that that's why the police have the Miranda rights etc. that they have to follow. Sorry, clumsy wording. |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 13:39 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Ah, I get you! |
Author: | Curiosity [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 14:56 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
asfish wrote: Attitudes to this among the famous and powerful to this behaviour are unlikely to change. The behaviour will change though as the slightest suggestion of anything is now a career ender. It's a little uncomfortable how quickly people have pulled the rug from under Louis CK without any evidence of guilt though. There is a fair bit to the article though so can see why HBO and others would act this way The slightest suggestion is a career ender? Donald Trump wants to disagree. Chris Brown revels in his image of someone who beats women, and he’s ludicrously successful. R Kelly is still rich and famous. Even the next Alabama Senate Republican standing in the election in a few weeks is now being accused of being a paedophile, and the party is standing by him (saying that it’s okay in part because Mary and Joseph were different ages, and in part because even if he is guilty they would rather vote in an actual paedophile and sexual predator ahead of a Democrat). |
Author: | Pundabaya [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 15:00 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
I read that article. I kinda feel sorry for the guy, I mean he's obviously got some mental issues. Kinda pathetic. Needs to book in with some therapists. I am aware I'm probably worse than Stalin and Hitler combined (Statler?) For saying such things. |
Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 16:53 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
DavPaz wrote: Lonewolves wrote: MaliA wrote: Mr Russell wrote: woke? Stupid word. Means "aware of social injustices and stuff like that" By all means call words of AAVE origin stupid. Makes you appear very woke. So it's from non-whites it can't be stupid? I expect more from you. Tut, tut. The only people who say AAVE speech is stupid and not proper English are ignorant white people so |
Author: | DavPaz [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:08 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: The only people who say AAVE speech is stupid and not proper English are ignorant white people so Did you just assume Malia's race? |
Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:15 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
DavPaz wrote: Lonewolves wrote: The only people who say AAVE speech is stupid and not proper English are ignorant white people so Did you just assume Malia's race? Jesus Christ. Ticking all the irony bro boxes today mate. |
Author: | DavPaz [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:19 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
I'm a terrible person |
Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:19 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
DavPaz wrote: I'm a terrible person We finally agree on something! |
Author: | DavPaz [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:23 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: Jesus Christ. Ticking all the irony bro boxes today mate. Besides, it was more a joke about how white Malia is. |
Author: | MaliA [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:23 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
DavPaz wrote: Lonewolves wrote: Jesus Christ. Ticking all the irony bro boxes today mate. Besides, it was more a joke about how white Malia is. Cornish. |
Author: | DavPaz [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:25 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
MaliA wrote: DavPaz wrote: Lonewolves wrote: Jesus Christ. Ticking all the irony bro boxes today mate. Besides, it was more a joke about how white Malia is. Cornish. Sorry, not white: pasty |
Author: | MaliA [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:28 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
DavPaz wrote: MaliA wrote: DavPaz wrote: Lonewolves wrote: Jesus Christ. Ticking all the irony bro boxes today mate. Besides, it was more a joke about how white Malia is. Cornish. Sorry, not white: pasty Protected minority, me. |
Author: | Cras [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 17:44 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
I mean, objectively it's a pretty stupid word. It's taking a verb and pretending it's an adjective, even when a suitable adjective (awakened) already exists. I'm fully behind people using whatever language they like to express their feelings and experiences, but I'm equally fully behind calling 'woke' a stupid word, in the full knowledge that nobody who chooses to use it would care what I think of it, which is as it should be. |
Author: | Squirt [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:09 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Cras wrote: I mean, objectively it's a pretty stupid word. It's taking a verb and pretending it's an adjective, even when a suitable adjective (awakened) already exists. I'm fully behind people using whatever language they like to express their feelings and experiences, but I'm equally fully behind calling 'woke' a stupid word, in the full knowledge that nobody who chooses to use it would care what I think of it, which is as it should be. And in the end, it's that knowledge that indeed makes you woke. |
Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:09 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Cras wrote: It's taking a verb and pretending it's an adjective, even when a suitable adjective (awakened) already exists. Hi welcome to ALL OF MODERN ENGLISH
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Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:19 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Cras wrote: I mean, objectively it's a pretty stupid word. It's taking a verb and pretending it's an adjective, even when a suitable adjective (awakened) already exists. I'm fully behind people using whatever language they like to express their feelings and experiences, but I'm equally fully behind calling 'woke' a stupid word, in the full knowledge that nobody who chooses to use it would care what I think of it, which is as it should be. It works totally fine in the AAVE grammarian structure. I agree it's a cringe-inducing word when white people use it unironically though. |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:46 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: Cras wrote: I mean, objectively it's a pretty stupid word. It's taking a verb and pretending it's an adjective, even when a suitable adjective (awakened) already exists. I'm fully behind people using whatever language they like to express their feelings and experiences, but I'm equally fully behind calling 'woke' a stupid word, in the full knowledge that nobody who chooses to use it would care what I think of it, which is as it should be. It works totally fine in the AAVE grammarian structure. I agree it's a cringe-inducing word when white people use it unironically though. Honest to goodness straight question here... youvsay when white people use it unironically, so you don’t find it cringe-inducing when white peoples use it ironically? The two words that make me cringe a little are ‘gifted’ and ‘own/owned’ in the contexts: I was gifted this ball of yarn by Shiela. I’m going to own my disagree here/at least she owned her disagree (further context being little voting buttons where you can vote a comment/post as being funny, disagreeable, etc. So it’s a way of not anonymously just clicking a button to show your feeling and moving on, but really saying ‘I am one of those that disagree with you’, so really it’s doubly stupid as that’s what the reply button is for, which you’ve clicked to then ‘own’ your comment. Next time, just comment!) I have no idea of the race of the person who coined these phrases, nor what race(s) use them. I think it’s pretty much a broad sweep of all people of all races on various platforms/forums. I don’t know if they are doing so ironically or not. I think not. I also hate the word mauve. Makes me feel a bit queasy, that. It looks French, though. Just feels a bit like you’re going to throw up when you say it. |
Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:49 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
If someone rolls their eyes and says "Bernard is sooooo woke" and uses air quotes, I might laugh and agree. That is using it ironically. |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:53 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: If someone rolls their eyes and says "Bernard is sooooo woke" and uses air quotes, I might laugh and agree. That is using it ironically. Did you just feel the need to explain irony to me? |
Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:54 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Mimi wrote: Lonewolves wrote: If someone rolls their eyes and says "Bernard is sooooo woke" and uses air quotes, I might laugh and agree. That is using it ironically. Did you just feel the need to explain irony to me? You seemed to be struggling with what I had said. |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:56 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: Mimi wrote: Lonewolves wrote: If someone rolls their eyes and says "Bernard is sooooo woke" and uses air quotes, I might laugh and agree. That is using it ironically. Did you just feel the need to explain irony to me? You seemed to be struggling with what I had said. I did not. I was questioning why you felt it cringe inducing to hear a white person use the phrase unironically but not find it cringe inducing if it was said by a white person in irony. I didn’t in any way ask what irony was or what an ironic use might or might not be. |
Author: | myp [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:57 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
And then I clarified. What more do you want, blood? |
Author: | Cras [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 18:59 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Curio once said he was out clubbing ironically. It seemed much the same as unironic clubbing. |
Author: | Pundabaya [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 19:00 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Erm, I'm horrifyingly <air-quotes>"not-woke"</air-quotes> and all that, but what is AAVE? |
Author: | Pundabaya [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 19:01 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Or is that "sleep"? I don't fucking know what is all this even? |
Author: | Mimi [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 19:04 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Lonewolves wrote: And then I clarified. What more do you want, blood? No, I wanted less of being condescended to. Also, I think it’s usually spelled ‘blud’. |
Author: | Cras [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 19:05 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hollywood Assaults |
Pundabaya wrote: Erm, I'm horrifyingly <air-quotes>"not-woke"</air-quotes> and all that, but what is AAVE? I believe it's African American Vernacular Expression |
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