Red Dead Redemption 2

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2018 14:36

Bamba wrote:

Hearthly wrote:

I dunno, The Guardian's review basically says straight out it's 60% horse riding and it'd get boring if it weren't all so pretty.

I'm kind of getting the same vibe from all the reviews (that I've flicked through). They seem to spend 90% of their time waffling on about what a great world they've built and the actual gameplay comments are secondary. That's doing nothing to make me want to actually play the thing. Indeed, the few times the EG review actually mentions gameplay explicitly it just puts me off further.

Yeah, the three I've posted are the ones I've read (so far) and they've been light on the "did you enjoy it" front. They're all rubbish reviews, to be fair.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16557

I'll probably wait and play this on my PS5.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2018 14:53

markg wrote:

I'll probably wait and play this on my PS5.

Good plan.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2018 18:51

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/ ... x-rockstar

Quote:

Rockstar Games – the creators of Grand Theft Auto and one of the most successful game developers in the world – appears to have spent seven years and hundreds of millions creating the video game equivalent of Deadwood

Sold

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

Got the “Your order has been dispatched” from Amazon. Kinda excited for its imminent arrival.

But will it be Blood Meridian or A Million Ways to Die in the West?

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2018 23:58

Attachment:

IMG_20181025_235431.jpg

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

It's pretty good.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38458

Cras wrote:

It's pretty good.

Now there's your box quote, Rockstar!

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:48

DavPaz wrote:

Cras wrote:

It's pretty good.

Now there's your box quote, Rockstar!

I have the box in my hands. I can confirm this is not the box quote

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:02

Can you confirm the number of spinny disks?

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:55

There's two in the box, data disk and play disk

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018 ... demption-2

Yeah, I'll pass.

Attachment:

rdders.JPG

Quote:

Mental health struggles are a common theme among those I speak with.

"I see the HR department doing the best they can but it's not simple," one person told me. "People's lives have been put on hold for well over a year. They're missing key moments in their children's lives. Obviously other studios have crunch. It may last for a month, and during that month may be the moment your child starts speaking for the first time. But because it's been a year, the spectrum of things people have missed out on has risen exponentially. It's no way to live."

Everyone seems to have a story, or know someone affected. "I know a number of people signed off work because of depression or anxiety," one person says. Says another: "I worked for a number of years in the Lincoln QA studio on GTA5 and RDR2. I ended up leaving due to personal circumstance and the job itself driving me into a suicidal depression." "I know people that have given up on dating," a third person tells me. "I know people whose relationships have ended because they just can't see partners."

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

If you're passing on RDR2 because of this, you might like to also reconsider your purchases of basically every AAA game you've ever bought. Rockstar is far from alone here.

I work with several extremely talented senior engineers who burnt out of games because almost the entire industry is rotten to the core. This is magic for recruiters in the rest of the tech industry, who can scoop up extremely clever folk and win their undying loyalty by simply treating them as human beings. To my mind it's so obviously self-sabotaging that I cannot believe it makes long term economic sense.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

If you're passing on RDR2 because of this, you might like to also reconsider your purchases of basically every AAA game you've ever bought. Rockstar is far from alone here.

I work with several extremely talented senior engineers who burnt out of games because almost the entire industry is rotten to the core. This is magic for recruiters in the rest of the tech industry, who can scoop up extremely clever folk and win their undying loyalty by simply treating them as human beings. To my mind it's so obviously self-sabotaging that I cannot believe it makes long term economic sense.

Indeed Doc, as I readily conceded a page or two back, I'm part of the problem too.

https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/ ... 9#p1003249

That Eurogamer piece is shocking though, and TBH I don't think I've ever seen it laid out in such stark detail before.

romanista · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 13:44

good that such a story breaks out, has been quiet on this front for quite some time... afraid it won't help much… they should unionize…

probably buy it when discounted… love the idea

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 13:48

Read a few of these stories to see how testers are treated: http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/anything-goes

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

Damn this may be the best looking game I’ve ever played.

Findus Fop · **Joined:** 14th May, 2009 **Posts:** 4299

Satsuma wrote:

Damn this may be the best looking game I’ve ever played.

How are the barrels?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Not a trace of performance issues on my OG PS4, FYI. Not that I've made it to a town or anything yet.

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14356

Findus Fop wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

Damn this may be the best looking game I’ve ever played.

How are the barrels?

I ain’t gonna lie, I’m glad they put in that overtime cause these are the best barrels I’ve ever seen.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 15:10

Satsuma wrote:

Findus Fop wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

Damn this may be the best looking game I’ve ever played.

How are the barrels?

I ain’t gonna lie, I’m glad they put in that overtime cause these are the best barrels I’ve ever seen.

It was all worth it, because it looks a masterpiece.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 15:20

Better than putting all that time in and it being shit.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 15:40

One thing I find baffling is the calls to boycott it. Do you think the people who basically put their lives into it want that? I'd imagine not.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Mr Dave wrote:

One thing I find baffling is the calls to boycott it. Do you think the people who basically put their lives into it want that? I'd imagine not.

So instead we should reward companies for shady practices by giving them money for the things said practises created? I mean I'm not saying I agree with the idea of a boycott, but I'm baffled that you'd claim to be baffled by the concept.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Grim... wrote:

Read a few of these stories to see how testers are treated: http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/anything-goes

Very depressing how many of those end with "and then I was laid off"

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 15:47

Mr Dave wrote:

One thing I find baffling is the calls to boycott it. Do you think the people who basically put their lives into it want that? I'd imagine not.

I'd imagine quite a few are relieved it's over at long last and couldn't give two shits over how it's received.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

One thing I find baffling is the calls to boycott it. Do you think the people who basically put their lives into it want that? I'd imagine not.

I'd imagine quite a few are relieved it's over at long last and couldn't give two shits over how it's received.

I doubt that. When you put "lead tester on RDR2" on your CV you probably don't want it to be thought of as a bug-ridden mess.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Cras wrote:

I doubt that. When you put "lead tester on RDR2" on your CV you probably don't want it to be thought of as a bug-ridden mess.

Not to mention five-figure bonuses tied to Metacritic and/or sales figures.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 15:53

"Quite a few" not being lead testers or other people in positions of responsibility or authority.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

"Entry level tester" has the exact same thing

Findus Fop · **Joined:** 14th May, 2009 **Posts:** 4299

When you see a few of them together, the majesty of "baffle" as a word really makes itself known. Lovely to say, lovely to look at.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:02

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Cras wrote:

I doubt that. When you put "lead tester on RDR2" on your CV you probably don't want it to be thought of as a bug-ridden mess.

Not to mention five-figure bonuses tied to Metacritic and/or sales figures.

And these are utter bullshit, obviously.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Lonewolves wrote:

And these are utter bullshit, obviously.

What fair, independent, unbiased metric should the games industry use for performance related pay then?

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:12

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

And these are utter bullshit, obviously.

What fair, independent, unbiased metric should the games industry use for performance related pay then?

Performance-related pay should be based on individual performance and company performance (ie how much profit they make). Companies shouldn't withhold bonuses because a game got 79 instead of 80 on Metacritic, which happened with a FIFA game a few years ago, I believe.

It's utter nonsense, and I'm disappointed to see someone like you defending it.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:14

But is it Art?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Lonewolves wrote:

Performance-related pay should be based on individual performance and company performance (ie how much profit they make). Companies shouldn't withhold bonuses because a game got 79 instead of 80 on Metacritic, which happened with a FIFA game a few years ago, I believe.

It's utter nonsense, and I'm disappointed to see someone like you defending it.

You don't think managers can and will reshuffle the books to engineer "profit" to reduce people's bonuses? And also re-rate their individual performance evaluations of others (which are ultimately just subjective) to achieve the same? You're literally equipping and incentivising smart managers to reduce bonus payouts, so they'll certainly do it.

I've experienced the former first hand and the latter second hand. I'd take objective, ungameable metrics.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:20

You seem to be saying capitalism is bullshit. I'm glad we agree.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

I'm trying to say this is a nuanced situation that cannot be reduced to shallow sloganeering like "capitalism is bullshit" without erasing critical details.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

If you accept the basic premise that performance related bonuses are okay, then an objective external metric is a way better choice than a manipulatable internal one.

If you don't, it's a meaningless conversation.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:42

Cras wrote:

If you accept the basic premise that performance related bonuses are okay

I don't really, but I was for the sake of argument. Either way is flawed.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:51

Anyway shouldn't you all be playing your sweatshop dressage game?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

We have performance related bonuses which are completely arbitrary and based on no observable metric. It's bullshit. An external, mostly non-fudgeable approach is way superior.

NervousPete · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 16:58

I despise Rockstar for their practices in developing games.

RELEASE RED DEAD REDEMPTION ON PC YOU FUCKS.

GazChap · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 17:09

Lonewolves wrote:

Companies shouldn't withhold bonuses because a game got 79 instead of 80 on Metacritic, which happened with a FIFA game a few years ago, I believe.

Don't know about FIFA, but Bethesda famously withheld bonuses from Obsidian because Fallout: New Vegas scored one point lower on Metacritic than was required to meet their bonuses.

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 17:15

GazChap wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Companies shouldn't withhold bonuses because a game got 79 instead of 80 on Metacritic, which happened with a FIFA game a few years ago, I believe.

Don't know about FIFA, but Bethesda famously withheld bonuses from Obsidian because Fallout: New Vegas scored one point lower on Metacritic than was required to meet their bonuses.

Not seeing an issue there, chief.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 17:22

I work in the public sector. Would someone explain the concepts of 'bonuses' and 'performance' for me?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Kern wrote:

I work in the public sector. Would someone explain the concepts of 'bonuses' and 'performance' for me?

I work in the private sector, could you explain the concept of "having a pension" to me?

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 17:28

Kern wrote:

I work in the public sector. Would someone explain the concepts of 'bonuses' and 'performance' for me?

Basically, you do the best you can to get your scores in order then spend ages on the phone telling the factory planners to just fucking make what you told them to (they will work to their own KPIs, which is basically efficiencies) and get them to tell the factory workers to stop fucking shit up and at the end of the financial year you get told how great it all was but sorry no cash and then the game starts again.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2018 17:29

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Kern wrote:

I work in the public sector. Would someone explain the concepts of 'bonuses' and 'performance' for me?

I work in the private sector, could you explain the concept of "having a pension" to me?

Giphy "touché":
https://media3.giphy.com/media/xzMs8O1KQh17i/giphy-loop.mp4

Edit: I appear to have Davpaz's giphy luck

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22266

You get to work till midnight every day of the week for three months, to be told that as a reward you can buy something up to the value of £300 that could be written off as a business expense.

Never again.

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Red Dead Redemption 2
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Red Dead Redemption 2
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