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Killing Floor 2
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11013
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Author:  Pundabaya [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

#CrawlersAreComingForCurio

Author:  Zardoz [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

:'( Missing on the funz

Stupid house move.

Author:  nickachu [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

100% record with #teamsharpshooter

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Cras loves being on Team sharpshooter

Author:  Cras [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

It was surprisingly not shit!

Author:  nickachu [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

That's because you bought the fire pistols

Author:  Cras [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I did everything properly on burning Paris. I still hate that starting rifle with a passion, but other than that it went okay.

Author:  nickachu [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Once you get the faster reloading it's a lot better. It'll only take you one game at the same rate as last night though.

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Bret knows the score.

Author:  nickachu [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Internet crapped out on me yesterday, was offline apparently until 5am. That's why I dropped off.

Author:  Cras [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

You missed out on dying a lot

Author:  Zardoz [ Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I'll have broadband again on the 13th September. :'(

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 13:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I am enjoying Sui. The added challenge is welcome without feeling insurmountable (which it did when we tried it a month or so back, with us wiping in wave 2 or 3.)

I'd also like to occasionally drop back to hard to play with other perks, though. I'd very much like to get my Support and Commando up to 20.

Also: Commands are well good now we're rocking multiple rank-25 perks. The zed time extension ability is massive.

Author:  Grim... [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 13:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I reckon we could get to the Sui boss with me or Nickachu as medic and you as (whatever you're levelling today).

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 14:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Grim... wrote:
I reckon we could get to the Sui boss with me or Nickachu as medic and you as (whatever you're levelling today).

Yeah, probably, actually. I wasn't doing much healing for the first few waves, or indeed for 80% of the time in the later waves. On the other hand, I was a very busy doc indeed the other 20% of the time when multiple Scrakes and Fleshpounds were blending everyone's bones to dust...

Author:  Cras [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 14:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Grim... wrote:
I reckon we could get to the Sui boss with me or Nickachu as medic and you as (whatever you're levelling today).


I'm happy to try but we were running almost full L25s and it was far from easy

Author:  Grim... [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 14:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I was L18 Support in the last game (maybe last two) and it didn't seem to hurt that much.

Author:  Cras [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 14:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Well no, but not having 2 l25 demos killing everything coming in the door might affect that

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 16:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

2x max demo in the barn makes for a dull game. But 4x demo in the boss wave with two medics could be a route forward.

Author:  Curiosity [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 16:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Or swap one Demo for a Sharpshooter ;)

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 16:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Also zerking through prison then flipping to demo for boss wave was effective. The problem is establishing how much money I can dole out in the mid game rounds.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 16:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
2x max demo in the barn makes for a dull game. But 4x demo in the boss wave with two medics could be a route forward.

Most Fun Guides suggest a demo/sharp heavy mix for boss waves. [1] People also really like a 'zerker though. Edit -- that guide is less keen on Sharps than I remember; I think other guides disagree.

I think our biggest boss issue is failing to dodge the telegraphed near-instakills though, and more medics won't help as much as you might hope then; a medic plus a support with the medic shotty might be a better mix, as the support can move effectively clear trash while providing some extra healing if the situation demands it. On which note: people of all perks might like to experiment with carrying the medic pistol, particularly in the boss wave.

[1]
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
MANDATORY: If you don't have these your chances go down the drain. You could still win, but I won't be betting on it. Are either vital for both bosses, or so vital for 1 boss that not taking it severely handicaps you if the wrong boss spawns.

1 Medic, level 20 or higher with Coagulant Booster and the rifle. Without it it is nearly impossible to deal with the potential damage output of Hans. It is heavily advised that you go all left. Symbotic Health will keep your own health topped off, give you your own buffs, and put you in the range where you can reliably take 2 melee strikes. Adrenaline shot allows players to sprint out of the bosses' melee lunge, and Coagulant Booster lets 100 health players survive 2 hits. Focus Injection is taken because poison is useless against the boss. Recommended off-perk weapons would be a katana to parry and a DBS to jump out of a boss's lunge.

1 tank Berserker with a tier 4 weapon and Parry. Dreadnaught is preferred because it lets you take 3+ melee strikes and gives the Medic a lot more HP to work with and apply Coagulant buffs. However, if you are confident in your parrying, you can take Skirmisher because the speed will let you chase down the boss when he tries to go after other players, or when Patty flees to heal. Bone Crusher is better for Hans because the block counters melee spam, while Eviscerator is better against Patty due to the ranged attack letting you chase him down more easily when he heals. Parry is the best skill for 1 on 1 melee duels, which is what the boss wave boils down to. A combination of the berserker native resistance, Parry active, and Coagulant can put your passive damage resistance up to 85%. Combined with blocks/parries the boss's melee will be doing less than 10 damage to you. The EMP grenade deactivates Patty's cloak.

TOP TIER: So good they're as close to mandatory as you can get without being 100% necessary. Are effective against both bosses even when stacked.

X number of Demos with RPGs and C4. Needs at least 1 spare RPG each due to ammo consumption. C4 can be attached to the Patriarch and will be visible when he cloaks. You see a levitating pile of blinking C4, no, the C4 didn't come to life, it's actually the Patriarch. Is also the best dps perk against Hans due to his weakness to the RPG, as well as the safest dps against Patty. Provides extra grenades for the medic. Buy a DBS in case it's Hans to use the recoil jump to escape his lunge, and a med pistol. His reactive armor also gives you a second life, letting you be more aggressive.

GOOD: Really good perks, but you're not going to be wanting multiples. Have valuable uses against both bosses, but due to diminishing marginal returns having a 2nd player of the perk isn't advised.

1 Support for dps, giving armor and ammo to players, and for killing the trash zed that spawn. Can also act as a secondary tank using the recoil jump from the dbs to safely keep the boss's attention. His reload speed with the DBS allows him to keep the boss' attention indefinitely as long as no projectiles are used. Can chip in damage against the boss with the AA12 and be a secondary medic with the HMTech-301.

Firebug. Arguably the best bodyshot dps against the Patriarch if not for the range problem making the microwave gun very risky. Still good dps against Hans. Can also clear trash. Heatwave is guaranteed to stumble both bosses if it isn't on cooldown. Hans is weak to fire, and dodges ground fire often enough that it becomes a reliable way of controlling his movement.

MEDIOCRE: Valuable on 1 boss in particular, or have deficiences that make it a risky take.

1 Commando to spot Patty if it's patty, and to kill the trash zed; it's not mandatory since a demo can stick C4 on Patty to make him visible anyways, and a Support with an AA12 can clear trash just as well.

Sharp: Needs headshots, damage skills require you to stand still and let the boss come closer. But with reload canceling, good aim, a good spot, and a team that knows how to distract the boss, you can contribute enormous dps. The freeze grenades can also immobilize Patty if 2 connect in close range, and give you a chance to kill him then and there. If you can consistently reload cancel the railgun this becomes Good/Top tier. If you can't do what I'm doing in the second half of this video, don't go sharp.

NO: Chances are that this is a idiotic pick. Has no special utility against either boss, or is heavily countered by one.

Swat: Bad DPS and no Patty callout. Flashbangs can't stun either boss unless you stack multiples directly under them, which is impossible due to the fuse timers spreading out the stun explosions as well as their massive stun resistance. SMGs are also less than adequate against the large number of gorefiends that spawn.

Gunslinger: You're gonna spend half the time reloading your .500s. Due to the small magazines the dps suffers due to being forced to constantly reload. Hans in particular hard counters the gunslinger due to his twitchiness and jetpack, which makes REM almost impossible to use, as well as the fact that his limbs are covered by a damage reducing armored exoskeleton, which counters Bone Breaker. Hans also has enough speed to chase down a gunslinger, making the speed advantage almost irrelevant since it only delays the inevitable. The only way I'll ever take this perk is if you are a human aimbot, and if you are a human aimbot, a reload canceled railgun is better.

Survivalist: Don't play survivalist.


also

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
The following are the biggest causes of failing the boss
Not having a medic with Coagulant Booster and the medic AR. It is almost impossible to out-heal Hans' damage otherwise.

Not having a tank perk to control the boss's aggro. Management of the boss's aggression is paramount.

Picking an bad area to fight the boss. Hans and Patty often require different arenas to fight in, because they are fundamentally different. Hans is a speedy melee unit, while Patty is a slower sniper.

Being out of position and getting trapped, getting caught with no nearby cover with the Patriarch, or getting clustered near Hans' explosive grenades.

Having too many low DPS or precision based perks or skills. You're not going to be hitting headshots on the boss that consistently, especially Hans. Swat, commando, gunslinger, and M14EBR sharp in particular are bad for the boss wave due to low dps and/or headshot dependence. Certain perks like commando, which are exclusively useful against only 1 boss, are also bad ideas.

Failing to deal with the trash zeds that come during the boss round. Everybody is shooting at the boss and forgetting about that one guy stuck in a corner with 2 husks and a bloat. Do not tunnel vision on the boss. Keeping the team alive is the top priority, not a little bit of extra damage.

Not parrying the boss's melee attacks.

Leaving a player to fight the boss alone.

Author:  Curiosity [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 17:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Reload cancelled railgun, eh?

*goes to look it up*

Author:  nickachu [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Cras wrote:
Grim... wrote:
I reckon we could get to the Sui boss with me or Nickachu as medic and you as (whatever you're levelling today).


I'm happy to try but we were running almost full L25s and it was far from easy


And I'm usually not sober

Author:  Pundabaya [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 16:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

#ScrakeKillingMachine

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 17:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Thoroughly enjoyed last night, and not just because I was troubling the leaderboard for once.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 18:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I think what stood out last night is that we were getting into very hairy moments (4/6 down, 15 left) and still surviving to the next wave.

Of course the issues were of our own making (also developing classes) but still, was most excellent.

Author:  Curiosity [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I think what stood out last night is that we were getting into very hairy moments (4/6 down, 15 left) and still surviving to the next wave.

Of course the issues were of our own making (also developing classes) but still, was most excellent


That was indeed tremendous fun. I was starting to get the hang of the Zerk after a while, though I will always pick up a nail gun when I have the spare cash.

Zerk was made about a hundred times easier with the application of a firebug.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I think what stood out last night is that we were getting into very hairy moments (4/6 down, 15 left) and still surviving to the next wave.

Yes. I think it's mostly about being calm and not panicking. It's a game that is always trying to get you to lose discipline and then punishing you if you do. When we were camping Steve and I was looking out over the courtyard, I had total confidence that you all had my back and I could just stay looking forward -- which I think only failed once when we were under pressure from a spammy truckload of big zeds. In turn, that makes more more efficient at holding my own lane, to the point where poor Curio wasn't getting much action. But he could safely roam a bit further out into the courtyard, confident that I had his back, could thin the herd if he was getting swamped, and keep a path clear for him to retreat.

(That was a tremendous spot for a Commando, BTW.)

We were hilariously bad at Volter Manor though.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 19:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I can't believe we all got this for free and we're still deeply committed months later. The return on investment on PS+ just due to this alone probably justifies several years of subscription.

Author:  Pundabaya [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 21:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

To be honest, the only other game on PSN thats held my interest as long as this is NBA2K16.

Author:  Curiosity [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 21:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I think what stood out last night is that we were getting into very hairy moments (4/6 down, 15 left) and still surviving to the next wave.

Yes. I think it's mostly about being calm and not panicking. It's a game that is always trying to get you to lose discipline and then punishing you if you do. When we were camping Steve and I was looking out over the courtyard, I had total confidence that you all had my back and I could just stay looking forward -- which I think only failed once when we were under pressure from a spammy truckload of big zeds. In turn, that makes more more efficient at holding my own lane, to the point where poor Curio wasn't getting much action. But he could safely roam a bit further out into the courtyard, confident that I had his back, could thin the herd if he was getting swamped, and keep a path clear for him to retreat.

(That was a tremendous spot for a Commando, BTW.)

We were hilariously bad at Volter Manor though.


Yeah, we held Steve like a motherfucker!

Patty is so much harder than Dr Toucher; it's ridiculous.

I also loved Grim...'s first go at being a Sharpshooter.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Sep 02, 2017 22:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Curiosity wrote:
Patty is so much harder than Dr Toucher; it's ridiculous.
I think you're supposed to be able to pull off killing him before he heals at least some of the time, which probably makes him a bit easier. But I also think you need to choose where to fight him a bit more carefully than Toucher. You need good cover.

Author:  Curiosity [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

That said, the step up from Hard to Suicidal is vast in terms of the boss. The health pool alone is massively larger.

Author:  krazywookie [ Mon Sep 04, 2017 23:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Thanks for the invite, sadly in-laws visiting and zed gatting would appear unseemly.

Author:  Grim... [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 0:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Curiosity wrote:
That said, the step up from Hard to Suicidal is vast in terms of the boss. The health pool alone is massively larger.

Fucked him up tonight!

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 0:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
That said, the step up from Hard to Suicidal is vast in terms of the boss. The health pool alone is massively larger.

Fuchs him up tonight!

Yaaah fuck you Toucher! In your fucking face!

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

The Three Support Strategem worked pretty well last night, I think, and will work even better when we get all three of us Support players above rank 20. Then, each round, everyone else will get 100% armour and 100% ammo without spending anything. In turn, that means we all get good guns sooner, big zed spawns are less stressful, and deaths (and subsequent loss of dosh and purchased weapons) is less likely.

Obv we can't continue 3x Supports through all the waves on Sui, so it does require (a) some discipline on the part of the support players who are going to switch perks to not spend dosh on support weapons and (b) pre-agreed perk switching so we don't need to try and co-ordinate against time pressure between waves for who is switching and what they are switching to.

Author:  nickachu [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

3 supports and 2 demos absolutely annihilated scrakes and FPs though. Also trash, worked out a treat.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

nickachu wrote:
3 supports and 2 demos absolutely annihilated scrakes and FPs though. Also trash, worked out a treat.

At some point you need a medic, I'd argue. Maybe wave 5 or so, whenever the multiple big zed mobs start spawning. Otherwise it can get a bit white knuckle. [1]

What's the next perk you'd choose to add, in priority order? I think a Commando would also be useful for long-range zed elimination (eg. lurking husks) and for zed time extension, which is ridiculously powerful now we're rocking multiple rank 25s. Also Commando can focus on killing the close up trash when most of the rest of the team pivots to killing some big zeds. I did that the other night, as Commando and Medic, and I think it was helpful.

[1] I think a valid tactic on Farmhouse for multiple FPs is to deliberately rage one, but only one, at the main door. Let it run ahead of the other and deal with it at the top of the stairs in isolation, then do the second.

Author:  Grim... [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Good luck only hitting one Fleshpound when the NUKE TRIPLETS are standing at the door.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Grim... wrote:
Good luck only hitting one Fleshpound when the NUKE TRIPLETS are standing at the door.

God forbid the NUKE TRIPLETS maybe hold their fire for a second (and move around to the top of the stairs ready to fuck the Big Zeds up.)

When I was camping Flat Steve as a Commando, aiming out across the really large courtyard bit, I was able to surgically kill all the trash around incoming big zeds well in advance of them reaching us. It did seem to help the takedowns go smoother when the time came.

Author:  Grim... [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
God forbid the NUKE TRIPLETS maybe hold their fire for a second

Giphy "lol":
https://media1.giphy.com/media/DeJ2ifS2V2zlu/giphy-loop.mp4

Author:  Pundabaya [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 14:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Yeah right.

Author:  Pundabaya [ Tue Sep 05, 2017 14:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Killing Floor Paperclip: It looks like you are putting together a body damage team. Would you like to add a Firebug?

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Here's the Fleshpound takedown I was on about last night. Looks a lot less impressive than it felt at the time -- that FP must have been on very little health -- but I'm still chuffed at successfully following his flinch animation and (I think) nailing headshots all along the way.


Author:  Pundabaya [ Thu Sep 07, 2017 19:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

It was in very little health because it just had most of a mag of M14 ammo emptied into it's skull.

Author:  Zardoz [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

I will endeavour to slaughter Zeds over the weekend.

At some point.

Author:  Pundabaya [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Just a note: if I'm on but playing Destiny 2, I may still be available for zed popping.

Anyway, when are we trying for Hell on Earth?

Author:  nickachu [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Killing Floor 2

Pundabaya wrote:
Just a note: if I'm on but playing Destiny 2, I may still be available for zed popping.

Anyway, when are we trying for Hell on Earth?



We've done suicidal like once right? So tomorrow?

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