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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 13:57 
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Bad Girl

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Mr Dave wrote:
Not played nu gow, but I'd hardly say tlou is a good escort game. I have a distinct memory of hiding behind cover, watching my escorted jump up and down in the face of oblivious enemies.
Plot aside, there didn't seem (from memory) to be much point to them


The plot was the purpose... sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 14:01 

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Aaah yeah, your son can't die on GoW there were occasions where I hid when nearly dead just shooting bad guys with him.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 14:11 
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Satsuma wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Not played nu gow, but I'd hardly say tlou is a good escort game. I have a distinct memory of hiding behind cover, watching my escorted jump up and down in the face of oblivious enemies.
Plot aside, there didn't seem (from memory) to be much point to them


The plot was the purpose... sigh.

So it's not an example of escort as gameplay mechanics, like Ico is. Glad we agree.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 14:20 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Not played nu gow, but I'd hardly say tlou is a good escort game.

Mr Dave wrote:
So it's not an example of escort as gameplay mechanics, like Ico is. Glad we agree.

I'm confused. Is it a bad escort game, or not an escort game at all?


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 14:24 
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Rude Belittler

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Ico was a) shite and b) you weren't escorting the girl, but carrying her like a sack of rocks with a smiley face drawn on.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 14:28 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Stealth games, with good stealth mechanics (thief, mgs, dishonoured etc etc) are a joy to play. When the game is less built around it, it suffers (see also: escort missions. Only ever done well in Ico, a game where it is the central mechanic.)

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 15:22 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Stealth games, with good stealth mechanics (thief, mgs, dishonoured etc etc) are a joy to play. When the game is less built around it, it suffers (see also: escort missions. Only ever done well in Ico, a game where it is the central mechanic.)

RE4 says "hi."

Never got that far, but I've certainly seen it used as the poster boy for "why not to have escorting in your game. the ai is as clever as a bunch of rocks"


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 15:33 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I'm confused. Is it a bad escort game, or not an escort game at all?


It's not an escort game. And neither is TLOU.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 15:36 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Never got that far, but I've certainly seen it used as the poster boy for "why not to have escorting in your game. the ai is as clever as a bunch of rocks"


I do appreciate its aged (*) , however at the time it was the stand out for how to do AI and escort missions in a game , and this was not a small part thrown in but you spend a good chunk of the game escorting and working with an AI character that you need to protect from everything trying to kill you both.

(*) RESI4 came out 11th Jan 2005


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 15:45 
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Bamba wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I'm confused. Is it a bad escort game, or not an escort game at all?


It's not an escort game. And neither is TLOU.

I agree with you, but Mr Dave seemed to reverse his position inside of half an hour then triumphantly proclaim he was right all along, which was confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 15:55 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I'm confused. Is it a bad escort game, or not an escort game at all?


It's not an escort game. And neither is TLOU.

I agree with you, but Mr Dave seemed to reverse his position inside of half an hour then triumphantly proclaim he was right all along, which was confusing.

I never said it was. I raised the escort thing as a way of saying some game mechanics struggle if it's not overly central to the game design.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 16:07 
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Mr Dave wrote:
I never said it was. I raised the escort thing as a way of saying some game mechanics struggle if it's not overly central to the game design.

I read
Mr Dave wrote:
I'd hardly say tlou is a good escort game.

as "TLOU is a bad escort game."


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 17:05 
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i was replying to this:

Pundabaya wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Only ever done well in Ico, a game where it is the central mechanic.)


And God of War (the new one). And The Last of Us.


And couldn't be bothered to argue about whether TLOU was an escort game or not, given that he'd asserted it was. (Although it took me more than a moment of thinking to even understand why he'd said it was)

This might have been clearer if I hadn't had to go into a meeting and lots of posts appear in the interim.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 17:19 
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Lord Humongous

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 17:55 
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Rude Belittler

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The thing about escort mechanics is that the only way they work is make it so it's not really an escort you're doing. ICO does this by making the 'escortee' into a charismatic object to be pulled around the levels. The way TLOU and GoW do it is by making the 'escortee' as unobtrusive as possible. They stay out of trouble, mostly.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 23:35 
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Pundabaya wrote:
The thing about escort mechanics is that the only way they work is make it so it's not really an escort you're doing. ICO does this by making the 'escortee' into a charismatic object to be pulled around the levels. The way TLOU and GoW do it is by making the 'escortee' as unobtrusive as possible. They stay out of trouble, mostly.


TLOU and GOW don't have any kind of escort mechanic at all. They're just NPCs that follow you around, it's nothing like the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:29 
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Prince of Fops

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Bamba wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
The thing about escort mechanics is that the only way they work is make it so it's not really an escort you're doing. ICO does this by making the 'escortee' into a charismatic object to be pulled around the levels. The way TLOU and GoW do it is by making the 'escortee' as unobtrusive as possible. They stay out of trouble, mostly.


TLOU and GOW don't have any kind of escort mechanic at all. They're just NPCs that follow you around, it's nothing like the same thing.


See also Bioshock Infinite. Your objective is to escort and protect Elizabeth, but there are no "escort mission" mechanics. She's basically an unkillable team mate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:11 
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I do remember in bioshock 1,a section near the end where you had to protect one of the little girls while she harvested. I also remember it being the worst part of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:07 
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Rude Belittler

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Bamba wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
The thing about escort mechanics is that the only way they work is make it so it's not really an escort you're doing. ICO does this by making the 'escortee' into a charismatic object to be pulled around the levels. The way TLOU and GoW do it is by making the 'escortee' as unobtrusive as possible. They stay out of trouble, mostly.


TLOU and GOW don't have any kind of escort mechanic at all. They're just NPCs that follow you around, it's nothing like the same thing.


That's the whole point of what I'm saying.

Escort mechanics suck, so you get rid of them. You get the same story, but you get rid of the bollocks.

You make the person you're "escorting" (largely) invulnerable and either make them dumb as rocks, will no AI whatsoever (The ICO method) or give them AI but make them useful, and as little trouble as possible (TLOU and GoW... fun fact: when he's not on screen SONNN! in GoW literally disappears from the game world. When you climb ladders etc you never have to wait for him, because he just apparates and jumps on your back.)

I don't think there's an example of an actual escort mechanic that isn't a frustrating mess.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:14 
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Pundabaya wrote:
I don't think there's an example of an actual escort mechanic that isn't a frustrating mess.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 14:43 
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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:26 
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New trailer from yesterday's Playstation event:



You could predict the fridging of Ellie's girlfriend from pretty much the opening seconds, it would've been nice if they'd come up with a less hackneyed motivation. Also, a straight forward revenge story is less compelling than the previous game's plot to me with it's morality angle, but hopefully there's just more going on than they've revealed there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 23:32 
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Aww man. "Mr Chonks" can't play this anymore...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020 ... aughty-dog


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 23:42 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Aww man. "Mr Chonks" can't play this anymore...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020 ... aughty-dog

I probably won’t. :(

Still haven’t played RDR2.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:10 
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Bad Girl

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19th June!


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 16:45 
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https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1267466574799093765





https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/ ... 1591022061


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:07 
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The review embargo is up - currently sitting at a 96 on Metacritic with 79 reviews

https://www.metacritic.com/game/playsta ... -ii?ref=hp


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:58 
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Bad Girl

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Got my preorder in; I’m really looking forward to it. Avoiding spoilers like my life depended on it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:59 
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Kotaku and Polygon reviews have me wondering if I'd enjoy it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:00 
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Prince of Fops

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I'm finding it hard to imagine it's the game I'd want to be playing in lockdown, TBH. Definitely want to play it one day.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:06 
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Esoteric

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Gosh I can't wait.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 
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The usually dependable SkillUp is not impressed, and gives very good reasoning as to why.

Note this is a SPOILER FREE review.

I absolutely loved The Last Of Us, I'm not sure this sequel is going to work for me though. I'll wait for more reviews before committing to a purchase, and see what BEEXers have to say about it too.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 14:15 
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Lord Humongous

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I loved the first one so much I’ll have to play this to make up my own mind. Hope I can avoid spoilers before I do.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 14:38 
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There’s a site called Moonpam that comes up on Google Shopping that is selling this for £33. Do not buy it from them as it’s a scam site.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 15:43 
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I have not played this yet (obviously!), and I'm only going from the reviews I've read/watched, with NO reference to the leaked spoilers, however I will spoiler this regardless, as to my early thoughts based on what I've gleaned so far.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
It just sounds so unremittingly fucking MISERABLE, The Last Of Us was a hard game to play at times, but what drove me forward was the development of the relationship between Joel and Ellie, and Ellie representing that chink of light in the darkness, that slowly helped Joel to emerge from his, following the absolute gutpunch of him losing his daughter at the start of the game.

By all accounts The Last Of Us 2 is all darkness, all misery, all brutality, and I'm not sure I'm in the mood for that.

It's maybe a victim of circumstance to an extent, a grindingly haunting post apocalyptic horror-fest doesn't feel like a great fit for a real world emerging from a pandemic and societal lockdown, but even without that, I'm still not sure I'd be up for it.

Then there's the fact that, and let's be honest here, The Last Of Us wasn't the best of games from the perspective of being an actual videogame. The stealth was passable, the ranged combat was basic and serviceable at best, the melee was single button mashing, the crafting was generic and shallow, the environmental puzzles were boring etc. It sounds as if The Last Of Us 2 hasn't evolved any of those areas in any meaningful way, whilst the rest of the videogame world has moved on.

What made The Last Of Us work, for me at least, was the world, its characters, and its story. It was bleak, it was dark, and it was often harrowing, but driving it forward was the hope and optimism of a child, helping to redeem a man who felt he'd lost everything and had little reason to continue. Lose that, and I'm not sure what's left.


I shall wait and see, all the reviews at the moment are heavily restricted in what they can discuss and show, the reviews after the game's been released will be more informative. Plus I'll see what BEEXers think of it, Satsuma's take in particular will be of interest to me.

I'm not writing it off, that'd be daft, but I'm not pre-ordering it or buying it at launch either.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 16:21 
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Not going to pre order it then. I was tempted by the silicon controller cover, then realised I already have one of those.

If it doesn't contain the wonderful moments I will leave it until winter. At least then the miserable twat within me can fully embrace it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:56 
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I'm just not in the mood for a game that feels like a toil, especially after the incredible joy and majesty of FF7 Remake, which was a magnificent gaming experience.

Death Stranding is released on PC soon, I might play through that again as holy fuck I struggled with that using a pad.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Also, SkillUp says the story in Last Of Us 2 is crap and the character motivations make no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:37 
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Yep. A pal of mine bought me A Plague Tale: Innocence for my birthday, and I haven't had the stomach to turn it on yet. These excerpts from the the Verge:

Quote:
Early on in A Plague Tale: Innocence, you’re controlling a young girl, holding hands with her scared little brother, while running down a city street full of people trying to kill them both. It might be the most stressful experience I’ve ever had in a video game. It’s also the norm in the game, which is about two siblings trying to survive absolutely horrible circumstances...

In general, A Plague Tale is just a brutal game. You’ll walk past massive piles of corpses, both human and animal, sneak through huge pools of blood, and there are all manner of gruesome murder animations. Unfortunately, you’re going to see Amicia get stabbed to death a lot before the final credits roll. It can be a bit much to take at times, and I had to take regular breaks while playing.



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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:44 
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Ahhh now in fairness I would give a A Plague Tale: Innocence as pass on that front, I played it through last year and commented on it a few times in the 'What's Everyone Playing?' thread. It is brutal and horrific at times (many times....), and the tension almost becomes too much at certain points, with the death of your character happening regularly and in vicious circumstances.

BUT - it breaks it up with enough moments of optimism and joy to make it worthwhile, as your band of young adventurers overcome astonishingly hostile odds and move towards a happy conclusion that feels earned and justified. Also, there are several sections where you're sort of safe in a 'base' of some description and can take your time to have a little wander around your environment and have a chat to everyone, which I very much enjoyed.

I'd really, really recommend it, and it's generally available pretty cheap on either Steam or GOG at any given time now.

It's very much a 'light in the darkness' sort of game, whereas Last Of Us 2 sounds like a 'dark and darker' style experience.

https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/ ... 6#p1036626

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:49 
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Bad Girl

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Hearthly wrote:
The usually dependable SkillUp is not impressed, and gives very good reasoning as to why.

Note this is a SPOILER FREE review.

I absolutely loved The Last Of Us, I'm not sure this sequel is going to work for me though. I'll wait for more reviews before committing to a purchase, and see what BEEXers have to say about it too.



Oi, this ain’t the Red Dead 2 thread y’know...


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:05 
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Prince of Fops

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Hearthly wrote:
Ahhh now in fairness I would give a A Plague Tale: Innocence as pass on that front, I played it through last year and commented on it a few times in the 'What's Everyone Playing?' thread. It is brutal and horrific at times (many times....), and the tension almost becomes too much at certain points, with the death of your character happening regularly and in vicious circumstances.

BUT - it breaks it up with enough moments of optimism and joy to make it worthwhile, as your band of young adventurers overcome astonishingly hostile odds and move towards a happy conclusion that feels earned and justified. Also, there are several sections where you're sort of safe in a 'base' of some description and can take your time to have a little wander around your environment and have a chat to everyone, which I very much enjoyed.

I'd really, really recommend it, and it's generally available pretty cheap on either Steam or GOG at any given time now.

It's very much a 'light in the darkness' sort of game, whereas Last Of Us 2 sounds like a 'dark and darker' style experience.

https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/ ... 6#p1036626


Ah, interesting. It sounds like an experience worth enduring, but I'm not convinced I'm in the right place, mentally, to endure it at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 18:39 
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Bad Girl

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Tomorrow!


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 19:55 
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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 21:43 
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I'll wait to hear back from you, I'm genuinely interested to see how folks get on with this.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:14 
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I played it for two hours. I had fun, and it sure is pretty.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:52 
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Bad Girl

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I’m still waiting for the sodding postman...


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:40 
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Do you still use a 'disc' for games? How quaint.

EDIT - Sounds to me like you'd pay top dollar for a Toyota Camry, £15K to you. You can play compact discs in it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:52 
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I much prefer a nice resellable/tradable disc too!

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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:55 
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Bad Girl

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I tend to think those games that are disposable and cheaper online I’ll just download for the convenience and price. Those games or devs that I love and I’m invested in and/or are cheaper physically, I’ll buy the disc (and any tat if I’m really into the game). Luckily I only really love a few certain games or devs.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last of Us 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 13:06 
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Zardoz wrote:
I much prefer a nice resellable/tradable disc too!

Enjoy your more expensive consoles!

Satsuma wrote:
Those games or devs that I love and I’m invested in and/or are cheaper physically, I’ll buy the disc

Doesn't that get them less money?

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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen.

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