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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:08 
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Sleepyhead

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Amazing by Mo, as ever.

What I don't fully understand is how he keeps on destroying everyone despite running objectively slow times. I mean, he's being feted as an all time great, but he isn't even in the top 25 people in the all time record for the 5k. He won gold tonight with a time about half a lap slower than the world record. I don't want to shit on what is an insane record of being amazing. Is he just dominant in a weaker era or is it about the styles? Were most of the records set with pacemakers to follow? Is that how distance running works; that big races are generally slower?

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:53 
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That's it. There would usually be a 1500m runner, then a mile runner to go flat out to set the pace. When all the competitors are 5k runners, Mo or his front running rivals set the pace and they would naturally run slower, hoping to out sprint each other at the end. Mo just has an amazing sprint finish that noone else can touch. If he's in contention with 400 to go, he'll win.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 22:27 
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DavPaz wrote:
That's it. There would usually be a 1500m runner, then a mile runner to go flat out to set the pace. When all the competitors are 5k runners, Mo or his front running rivals set the pace and they would naturally run slower, hoping to out sprint each other at the end. Mo just has an amazing sprint finish that noone else can touch. If he's in contention with 400 to go, he'll win.

Plus championships are different to other meetings. In a championship, people are thinking about their own placing, and its all about the front three. In other meetings there will be pace makers to keep it to a certain time, and prize money. So in the latter, they might aim for world record pace and see who can hang on, the pace makers are paid to do some of the race at a pace, then they drop out - that's all they're there for. The others can to some extent team up, one might say to a compatriot - get me to 9k in 23 mins, I'll run behind you while you pace, then if I win we'll split the money. Whereas in championships, what's my incentive to pace you to get a medal while I get nothing? So team tactics are theoretically possible, but less likely. So it becomes cagey, and it so happens that plays into Mo's hands, as he has the best final lap around. Which isn't to say he isn't capable of a world record, but he doesn't chase them.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:05 
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Can you dig it?

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Triathletes - I know they run along a big carpet after the swimmy bit, but doesn't some sand end up in the cycling shoes and get all annoying?

Mr Russell wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
I seem to have overstepped the mark in the name of trying to be funny. Apologies.

That's ok bud. Took me by surprise is all

It was nothing personal at you, it was just trying to be the worst opposite of a sex tape. I dunno, I didn't want to offend.


I thought it was quite funny - didn't seem directly offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:18 
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Fitness Nut...

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Sir Taxalot wrote:
Triathletes - I know they run along a big carpet after the swimmy bit, but doesn't some sand end up in the cycling shoes and get all annoying?

Mr Russell wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
I seem to have overstepped the mark in the name of trying to be funny. Apologies.

That's ok bud. Took me by surprise is all

It was nothing personal at you, it was just trying to be the worst opposite of a sex tape. I dunno, I didn't want to offend.


I thought it was quite funny - didn't seem directly offensive.


A little bit of grit gets in, but the transition area is quite long, so most of it comes off

I puts lots of talc in my cycling and running shoes.

I am not as skilled as them, I quickly wipe my feet and put my cycle shoes on. Then run in them till I mount.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:11 
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Too easy

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:12 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
Too easy


Title

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:32 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Too easy


??

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 18:26 
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KovacsC wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Too easy


??

Seriously?

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 23:29 
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Can you dig it?

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I'm wondering which bits - seems like there are quite a few Titles in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:47 
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Fitness Nut...

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Lonewolves wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Too easy


??

Seriously?


yes *confused face*

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:44 
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Soopah red DS

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Oh my. Well, it's not the foot wiping or long transition area. Although now I mention them...


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 22:42 
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JBR wrote:
Oh my. Well, it's not the foot wiping or long transition area. Although now I mention them...

:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 15:53 
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Gogmagog

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Kiwi weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has dominated her first major competition, taking out the Australian International in Melbourne on a night she made history as the first transgender athlete to represent New Zealand.

I think this is going to become a really thorny issue in years to come. Given a level playing field, I think the only events that women and men are remotely close performance wise are endurance ones,like ultra marathons and huge swims. The IoC's guidelines allow FtM to compete rightbaway, but require 12 months hormone (testosterone) tests below a set level for MtF. I'm a bit conflicted on this, it's right it is possible, but from a level playing field point of view, it could be a minefield.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 
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I've always hated the Olympics as the waste-of-public-money-sports-jamboree that (IMO) it is, and for years proudly displayed an old post by Sinister Agent (much missed) as my sig at WoS, along the lines of '... Londoners would rather have 15 billion quid spent on infrastructural and social improvements than watch people chuck stuff around for a while' ( :DD )

But, even I could not have conceived of how much of an utterly bent, pointless cheating-drugfest it's turned out to be; even 'sports jamboree' is too generous a title, as it turns out. I mean seriously, the stuff that's starting to come out now would make FIFA directors blush with embarrassment; I just can't get my head around why anyone could seriously give a fig about this discredited beyond all redemption shameful gravy-train?

In retrospect, no-one could seriously argue that those billions upon billions could not have been far better spent on boring old schools, hospitals, new roads and rail, minus the fanfare bullshit.

Quote:
The London Olympics were “sabotaged” by Russian athletes who doped and the inaction of authorities to prevent them competing, according to a remarkable report which casts a significant shadow over the 2012 Games.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/ ... ing-report

...So, yeah, that's tens of billions well spent, then.
Oh no, that's right, it's very much not. Who would have thought it, eh? Another "unforeseeable" fiasco... :roll:

(I should add, of course, that as I have always said, I have no objection to the Olympics per se, but in that case let the people who want it bloody well pay for it).

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:17 
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How much did it make back, though? Those tickets weren't cheap.

I should add that I broadly agree - if the Olympics (or any sporting event) is subsidised, then why not rock concerts or any other forms of entertainment?

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:24 
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Gogmagog

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Grim... wrote:
How much did it make back, though? Those tickets weren't cheap.

I should add that I broadly agree - if the Olympics (or any sporting event) is subsidised, then why not rock concerts or any other forms of entertainment?


Arts Council Funding?

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:25 
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Grim... wrote:
How much did it make back, though? Those tickets weren't cheap.

I should add that I broadly agree - if the Olympics (or any sporting event) is subsidised, then why not rock concerts or any other forms of entertainment?
I don't know if that's included in the direct costs or not. Either way I agree with cavey on the Olympics and spending obscene sums on elite sport.

Encouraging people to take up sport has a very direct benefit on the country in economic and other terms, I think it's a good idea to do that. But spending billions of a sporting jamboree and then countless tens of millions on ongoing projects for just a few cyclists or tennis players is a really shitty and ineffective way to go about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:26 
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Sleepyhead

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Loads of other forms of entertainment are subsidised.

Sport more so overall, though our actual participation is largely via lottery funding. Sport is seen as being useful as a social tool to encourage higher levels of fitness amongst the populace, thus reducing healthcare costs overall. An investment of sorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:30 
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I agree with a suggestion that the Olympics should only be awarded to cities that already have sufficient facilities, or preexisting plans to build suitable venues. London has done well with recycling the facilities, but Rio has been left with some awful white elephants. Was it London that had basically flat pack venues built with scaffolding and tarps? The Basketball arena springs to mind

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_Arena_(London) Aye. It was. Good idea, that.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:32 
SupaMod
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Curiosity wrote:
Loads of other forms of entertainment are subsidised.

Sure, but they do tend to be "certain types" (theatre springs to mind).

I'm all for throwing money around to put on an opera, but I do think that it should be more fairly allocated.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:36 
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Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Loads of other forms of entertainment are subsidised.

Sure, but they do tend to be "certain types" (theatre springs to mind).

I'm all for throwing money around to put on an opera, but I do think that it should be more fairly allocated.


Probably true.

At the end of the day, I was in favour of it, still think fondly of it, and would happily have it happen again (London Olympics).

Was it a money sink? Maybe, though tourism and investment in the country as a result are estimated to have made it pay for itself (though figures are vague).

If I had a choice to invest £9bn in social housing and hospital rather than the Olympics, would I? Yes.

Would the government? No. They'd just spend it on some wars. Or paying a fraction of the Brexit bill.

Overall, I think it was a great event that made a lot of people very happy and during those few weeks the world seemed a better place. I have a lot of time for that kind of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:38 
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Although I've just bemoaned it all as a lack of money, I would love to see another Festival of Britain.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:42 
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Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Loads of other forms of entertainment are subsidised.

Sure, but they do tend to be "certain types" (theatre springs to mind).

I'm all for throwing money around to put on an opera, but I do think that it should be more fairly allocated.


There's possibly an argument to be made that the stuff which isn't subsidised doesn't need to be e.g. normal band concerts are profitable/popular enough in their own right so don't need extra money chucked at them. Mind you, that argument relies on the idea that stuff like theatre and opera wouldn't happen, or would be somehow massively impaired, if not for the subsidies and I don't know if that's true or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:43 
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Gogmagog

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Grim... wrote:
I'm all for throwing money around to put on an opera, but I do think that it should be more fairly allocated.


I'm working tbrough two grant applications at the moment for charities I am involved in. It's pretty tricky to get phrasing right to fit criteria, and very competitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:47 
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Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Loads of other forms of entertainment are subsidised.

Sure, but they do tend to be "certain types" (theatre springs to mind).

I'm all for throwing money around to put on an opera, but I do think that it should be more fairly allocated.


Probably true.

At the end of the day, I was in favour of it, still think fondly of it, and would happily have it happen again (London Olympics).

Was it a money sink? Maybe, though tourism and investment in the country as a result are estimated to have made it pay for itself (though figures are vague).

If I had a choice to invest £9bn in social housing and hospital rather than the Olympics, would I? Yes.

Would the government? No. They'd just spend it on some wars. Or paying a fraction of the Brexit bill.

Overall, I think it was a great event that made a lot of people very happy and during those few weeks the world seemed a better place. I have a lot of time for that kind of thing.

Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 15:51 
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Gogmagog

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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Loads of other forms of entertainment are subsidised.

Sure, but they do tend to be "certain types" (theatre springs to mind).

I'm all for throwing money around to put on an opera, but I do think that it should be more fairly allocated.


There's possibly an argument to be made that the stuff which isn't subsidised doesn't need to be e.g. normal band concerts are profitable/popular enough in their own right so don't need extra money chucked at them. Mind you, that argument relies on the idea that stuff like theatre and opera wouldn't happen, or would be somehow massively impaired, if not for the subsidies and I don't know if that's true or not.


I am on the board of a visual arts charity, and the grants are needed. A lot can be topped up with sponsors, but artists need paying and equipment needs buying. Recently, got £15k from Arts Council, without that, the event would be very hard to run. The other one I fundraise for is also arts based, but is harder to get funds, as is a multi day thing, ending in bands and food and stuff. I am exploring other avenues of revenue, but lean times it seems, locally.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 16:26 
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MaliA wrote:
I am on the board of a visual arts charity

The what now?!

Get me an exhibition sorted! I'll need £3-5k upfront for, er some flyers.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 16:40 
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I need £3-5k for some piano lessons.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 16:48 
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Zardoz wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I am on the board of a visual arts charity

The what now?!

Get me an exhibition sorted! I'll need £3-5k upfront for, er some flyers.


Pm sent

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 16:53 
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"Dear Zardoz, are you any good at drawing Julia Bradbury?"


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 17:43 
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Oh my god we need a zardoz rendition of Julia Bradbury

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 17:46 
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Preferably with Malificent also in the picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:54 
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DavPaz wrote:
I agree with a suggestion that the Olympics should only be awarded to cities that already have sufficient facilities, or preexisting plans to build suitable venues. London has done well with recycling the facilities, but Rio has been left with some awful white elephants. Was it London that had basically flat pack venues built with scaffolding and tarps? The Basketball arena springs to mind

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_Arena_(London) Aye. It was. Good idea, that.



Rio had some good ideas on that as well, the minor indoor arena's could all be converted to schools e.g. , but the others.:
http://www.boredpanda.com/rio-olympic-v ... ix-months/

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:39 
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That's some pretty rapid deterioration.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:41 
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DavPaz wrote:
That's some pretty rapid deterioration.


Title

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 14:05 
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MaliA wrote:
Kiwi weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has dominated her first major competition, taking out the Australian International in Melbourne on a night she made history as the first transgender athlete to represent New Zealand.



I think this is going to become a really thorny issue in years to come. Given a level playing field, I think the only events that women and men are remotely close performance wise are endurance ones,like ultra marathons and huge swims. The IoC's guidelines allow FtM to compete rightbaway, but require 12 months hormone (testosterone) tests below a set level for MtF. I'm a bit conflicted on this, it's right it is possible, but from a level playing field point of view, it could be a minefield



https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ew-zealand

If you've an hour, here is a really good podcast on how fairness is threatened.

https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/w ... 0522515770

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 17:30 
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Can't listen to the podcast, buuuuut let me guess, it will cause lots of mediocre male athletes to transition so they can win "easy" Olympic medals that are worth precisely jack shit (in monetary terms)? In exchange they will have to pay for expensive procedures, and then be discriminated against, fear for their lives, and be assaulted for who they are? Seems like a fair deal for them.

Am I about right?


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 17:43 
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I'm conflicted on Laurel Hubbard. I strongly support trans rights, believe that trans women are women and trans men are men, but her having been through a male puberty and lived something like 35? years as a man has had undeniable benefits on her musculature and strength despite now having a lower testosterone level.

I know of competitive strongmen who dope to bring their strength and muscle mass up and then go drug free in plenty of time for regional comps - but do not lose the acquired mass.

She was an average lifter prior to transition but would now beat the world records for her age and weight category by over 100kg.

I don't think she's transitioned to deliberately win gold medals (as has been levelled at her by others) and I don't envy her position both as the 'guinea pig' of this decision and under the scutiny of transphobes, sports fans and the like, but I also fully understand the frustration of AFAB athletes who have to compete alongside her. I'd rather see her included than excluded, but this is complicated shit.

(I've tried to write this as sensitively as possible and double checked to ensure I'm not misgendering but please forgive me if I've slipped up.)

ETA: this is a great piece I read a while back about trans men who compete -
https://www.insidehook.com/article/spor ... oys-sports

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 18:02 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Can't listen to the podcast, buuuuut let me guess, it will cause lots of mediocre male athletes to transition so they can win "easy" Olympic medals that are worth precisely jack shit (in monetary terms)? In exchange they will have to pay for expensive procedures, and then be discriminated against, fear for their lives, and be assaulted for who they are? Seems like a fair deal for them.

Am I about right?


No.
Miles away.

I'm not going to type the whole podcast out but the below tweet has what it covers. It is done very level headedly.

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/stat ... 0952716289



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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:05 
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Rude Belittler

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The Olympics first came up with rules for this stuff 20 years ago. They have access to better experts than some twat down the pub, and have revised the rules a couple of times since. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:08 
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I'm sure they'll do their best but I'm also pretty sure that there aren't any answers that won't leave someone suffering something that feels like an injustice.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:26 
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Gogmagog

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Pundabaya wrote:
The Olympics first came up with rules for this stuff 20 years ago. They have access to better experts than some twat down the pub, and have revised the rules a couple of times since. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.



He's got credentials

Quote:
I’m currently a science and research consultant for World Rugby, where my role is basically to support all strategic decisions that involve player welfare (so injury, concussion, player health), High Performance (performance analysis, performance audits) and Law (law change and monitoring).

...

I did my PhD in Exercise Physiology studying fatigue, the brain and the limits to performance, which included a lot of pacing strategy work in hot environments and altitude. My current research interests include the physiology of East African runners, high performance culture, talent identification and management, the limits of human performance, and performance and wellness in companies.


https://sportsscientists.com/who-are-we/

As I am prepared to indulge you, here's an article picking up a few points brought up

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... ompetition

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 0:33 
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Can you dig it?

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markg wrote:
I'm sure they'll do their best but I'm also pretty sure that there aren't any answers that won't leave someone suffering something that feels like an injustice.


I agree with Markg, and imagine that this is an incredible minefield to navigate.

I tuned to a TV documentary/talking piece on this recently, although I missed the beginning. Paula Radcliffe in particular has very strong views on this and I found that both sides had compelling arguments. I sure am glad that a- I don't have to make these decisions and b- I'm kinda shit at sport anyway so I don't have a horse in this race, so to speak.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 18:05 
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Watching highlights of the Opening Ceremony on the 6 o'clock news and it looks like a less self-aware Eurovision.


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 19:11 
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Darwin and I watched the entire four hour ceremony. I loved it. It was calm and thoughtful, and beautiful in places. It wasn’t overly showy and it didn’t seem ridiculously expensive or full of props (apart from the fireworks and impressive drone display). The section making the pictograms was the most fun segment of the show. I can’t find a video of it, but it was not long after the parade of the athletes and the bit with the coloured blocks moved by the children.

The bit of the speeches about the team of refugee athletes was also very moving. I didn’t catch who was doing the commentary. I’m sure it was Hazel Irvine but wasn’t sure of the chap; maybe Steve Cram? Anyway, the guy came across like a bit of a knob with some of the comments. Also when doing the parade of nations the comments regarding the coin girlies taking part were almost entirely about who was colonised by who which seemed both strange and, frankly, repetitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 19:16 
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markg wrote:
I'm sure they'll do their best but I'm also pretty sure that there aren't any answers that won't leave someone suffering something that feels like an injustice.

I was thinking about this the other day for some reason, and thought of another potential stumbling block when taking disciplines within sports such as gymnastics when there isn’t a direct equivalent between the men’s and women’s apparatus pieces.

If you were, for example, a male gymnast transitioning to female, there is no female equivalent to a lot of the apparatus such as rings, pommel horse, parallel bars. Even the apparatus that are closer in form are used completely differently; the men’s and women’s floor routines are completely different and the asymmetric to high bar again are completely different in actual usage (though perhaps easier to switch between learning).

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 20:36 
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Soopah red DS

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Mimi wrote:
Darwin and I watched the entire four hour ceremony. I loved it. It was calm and thoughtful, and beautiful in places. It wasn’t overly showy and it didn’t seem ridiculously expensive or full of props (apart from the fireworks and impressive drone display). The section making the pictograms was the most fun segment of the show. I can’t find a video of it, but it was not long after the parade of the athletes and the bit with the coloured blocks moved by the children.

The bit of the speeches about the team of refugee athletes was also very moving. I didn’t catch who was doing the commentary. I’m sure it was Hazel Irvine but wasn’t sure of the chap; maybe Steve Cram? Anyway, the guy came across like a bit of a knob with some of the comments. Also when doing the parade of nations the comments regarding the coin girlies taking part were almost entirely about who was colonised by who which seemed both strange and, frankly, repetitive.


Andrew Cotter - who did those lovely videos with his dogs over some lockdown periods (and then turned the momentum into a book, which was probably fair enough for a commentator deprived of his usual work, but felt a bit grifty to me).


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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 20:38 
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Mimi wrote:
The section making the pictograms was the most fun segment of the show. I can’t find a video of it,


She did find a video of it!

If you go here https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000y2z6

You can fast forward to 244 minutes for the start of the pictograms section.

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 Post subject: Re: Limpics
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 20:40 
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JBR wrote:

Andrew Cotter - who did those lovely videos with his dogs over some lockdown periods (and then turned the momentum into a book, which was probably fair enough for a commentator deprived of his usual work, but felt a bit grifty to me).


Oh, I don’t think I know him. I can’t fully explain why (apart from the occasional not too nice comment), but I didn’t enjoy his commentary. A few times I was hoping he’d just keep quiet.

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