Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 723 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 15  Next

How do you feel about Britain leaving the EU?
1) I want the UK out of the EU at all costs. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2) I want out of the EU, unless there is some show stopper that means we should stay in. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
3) I want out of the EU, but could easily be persuaded to stay in. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
4) Not sure if we should stay in or out. 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
5) I want to stay in the EU, but could easily be persuaded to leave. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
6) I want to stay in the EU, unless there is a showstopper that means we should leave. 59%  59%  [ 22 ]
7) I want the UK to stay in the EU at all costs. 27%  27%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 37
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:57 
User avatar

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 25549
Bobbyaro wrote:
Cras wrote:
Image

Far be it for me to suggest a cull, but we have a clear opportunity here.

That looks like it is missing some important corresponding data points, though. Voters age 40-49, Conservative supporters, highest qualification University degree or higher (etc).

I assume these have been missed out because they are more likely to have a closer 50/50 split for that demographic, but that's just an assimption that I think would be better made explicit,

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:58 
User avatar

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 25549
Sorry, just saw nalc's post.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:38 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32618
Latest YouGov results show a swing to Leave in the last week. Also, the public's trust in Cameron is now lower than trust in Corbyn.

Quote:
Leave campaigners have been handed another boost, with the latest YouGov figures again showing a lead for Brexit, while almost three quarters of voters say they don't trust the Prime Minister.

The polls adds to growing suggestions of a Leave lead, with online and telephone polls last week both showing a swing towards Brexit.

In a June survey of almost 3,500 people commissioned by Good Morning Britain, Yougov found 45 per cent said they would vote to leave the EU, while 41 per cent backed a vote to remain and 11 per cent of voters remained undecided.

It shows a dramatic swing from May figures, when only 40 per cent backed Brexit, and 42 per cent supported Remain.

An April survey showed 39 per cent supporting Leave, while 40 per cent lent their support to Remain.

The Yougov figures also showed trust in figures including Jeremy Corbyn and David Cameron has fallen, with 72 per cent of the public saying they did not trust the Prime Minister, while 61 per cent said they did not trust the Labour leader.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:44 
User avatar
Isn't that lovely?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10910
Location: Devon
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
More educated people (like me) are more likely to work in positions where they see the benefits of open immigration (like my office, which recruits across Europe.) Less educated people are being squeezed by stagnant wage growth in the middle and lower classes, which is easily blamed on a perception of reduced opportunities caused by immigration of hard-working unskilled workers eg. Polish builders.


Maybe, I like to think it's more to do with the fact that the better educated you are, the better equipped you are to see through something, to question the motives and biases of the author, to seek out alternative viewpoints. All the stuff you learn to do at school when doing English or History or Science or what-have-you.

_________________
Where's the Kaboom? I was expecting an Earth shattering Kaboom!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:49 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
Man, this smug, patronising sense of superiority of the Left - so often entirely misplaced after all - is so utterly obnoxious, I could throw up.

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:04 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
I now understand what it must have been like to be Scottish in 2014. Nobody's making a positive case for Union whilst the exit side seems to be offering the more positive case. Gove was weak on Friday on the economic stuff but his arguments that the country and its people would be strong enough to go it alone were better than simple Brussells-bashing.

But then from my hobby, I know that there was a very feverish atmosphere in South Carolina in late 1860.... ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:24 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
I was talking to MrsP's "Dutch" cousins over the weekend as they've . I write "Dutch" as they're British Citizens due to their father being English. They've lived in The Netherlands all their lives, speak Dutch, work there etc. They are 100% Dutch, but hold British Passports. Currently, to maintain their residency, they just have to report to a Police Station once every 5 years or so and so show their passports.

After Brexit, their status will be very much under doubt. Neither of them want to uproot and move to the UK, and neither are particularly interested in sitting the Dutch Citizenship test ("the language section is too hard", says the native Dutch Speaker!).

I asked if they were worried and I got a typical European shug. "If it happens, then we'll worry"

It occurs as I'm writing this: They should get a vote, shouldn't they?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:26 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
Hang on. Are we saying that right wingers are stupid now?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:32 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
DavPaz wrote:
Hang on. Are we saying that right wingers are stupid now?

No. Frank Lampard got an A* in Latin at GCSE

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:34 
User avatar
Isn't that lovely?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10910
Location: Devon
I am suggesting that people who can't see beyond immigrants == bad are thick, I am suggesting that the vast majority of the people who want to leave the EU are in this camp, and that graph that Craster posted suggests that people who are better educated are less likely to want to leave the EU

_________________
Where's the Kaboom? I was expecting an Earth shattering Kaboom!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:36 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
MaliA wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Hang on. Are we saying that right wingers are stupid now?

No. Frank Lampard got an A* in Latin at GCSE


One of the youngest full professors ever in the classics, fluent in ancient Greek and other useful languages, was Enoch Powell. Heck, he was one of the smartest men of his generation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:40 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
DavPaz wrote:
It occurs as I'm writing this: They should get a vote, shouldn't they?


If they've been away for less than 15 years they should, but they might have to have a residence here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:41 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
Kern wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
It occurs as I'm writing this: They should get a vote, shouldn't they?


If they've been away for less than 15 years they should, but they might have to have a residence here.

Ah, well then no. They've never been resident in the UK and they're both early 30's


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:43 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
DavPaz wrote:
Kern wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
It occurs as I'm writing this: They should get a vote, shouldn't they?


If they've been away for less than 15 years they should, but they might have to have a residence here.

Ah, well then no. They've never been resident in the UK and they're both early 30's


http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/overseas-voters

They might be in with a chance.

Out of interest, if they were to go for Dutch citizenship, would they have to do military service? Or has that ended there now?

EDIT: irrelevant. Conscription's been suspended.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:45 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.



:roll:

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:45 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
Kern wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Kern wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
It occurs as I'm writing this: They should get a vote, shouldn't they?


If they've been away for less than 15 years they should, but they might have to have a residence here.

Ah, well then no. They've never been resident in the UK and they're both early 30's


http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/overseas-voters

They might be in with a chance.

Out of interest, if they were to go for Dutch citizenship, would they have to do military service? Or has that ended there now?

EDIT: irrelevant. Conscription's been suspended.

That was one of their reasons for maintaining their British status. Their (dutch) mother is a hippy-dippy music teacher pacifist type


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:46 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.



:roll:

How's your Dutch?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:51 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
DavPaz wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level

:roll:

How's your Dutch?


It's acceptable on the first date, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:52 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.
:roll:

What are you upset about? The graph isn't made up.

...

I think. Let me find what we got.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:55 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.
:roll:

What are you upset about? The graph isn't made up.

...

I think. Let me find what we got.



There could be an suggestion from analysis of the graph that those that want out are on the right, and thick, and those wishing to remain are super clever and on the left.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:59 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.
:roll:

What are you upset about? The graph isn't made up.

...

I think. Let me find what we got.



There could be an suggestion from analysis of the graph that those that want out are on the right, and thick, and those wishing to remain are super clever and on the left.

Not from me there isn't. There are plenty on the right who are incredibly intelligent. Ruthless, cold, calculating, heartless and lacking a soul, mind, but definitely not thick.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:04 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Kern wrote:
I now understand what it must have been like to be Scottish in 2014. Nobody's making a positive case for Union whilst the exit side seems to be offering the more positive case. Gove was weak on Friday on the economic stuff but his arguments that the country and its people would be strong enough to go it alone were better than simple Brussells-bashing.



Yes. I think the leave side is well on the front foot with getting A Message across.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:13 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.
:roll:

What are you upset about? The graph isn't made up.

...

I think. Let me find what we got.



There could be an suggestion from analysis of the graph that those that want out are on the right, and thick, and those wishing to remain are super clever and on the left.

It's certainly saying that the more educated you are, the more likely you are to want to stay in.

I can't see the problem, is all.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:37 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27343
Location: Kidbrooke
I have a feeling that we're going to leave, which sucks.

Oh well, put a bet on last night that LEAVE would win. So at least I'll have some extra cash while Boris and Gove cackle with delight at having fooled the public.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:39 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32618
Should have put an accumulator on Leave + PM Boris. I reckon they come as a twofer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:44 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Should have put an accumulator on Leave + PM Boris. I reckon they come as a twofer.


Leave + Boris + Trump

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:44 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
MaliA wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Should have put an accumulator on Leave + PM Boris. I reckon they come as a twofer.


Leave + Boris + Trump


Christ, that's depressing.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:45 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
@Grim...
Nah, not upset (by a long chalk), just world-weary I guess.

The pinnacle of all knowledge, truth and intellect is attained by being some sackless Guardian reader... lol. Yeah, you got me with THE GRAPH OF TRUTH.
You guys, huh. :D

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:48 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.
:roll:

What are you upset about? The graph isn't made up.

...

I think. Let me find what we got.



There could be an suggestion from analysis of the graph that those that want out are on the right, and thick, and those wishing to remain are super clever and on the left.

Not from me there isn't. There are plenty on the right who are incredibly intelligent. Ruthless, cold, calculating, heartless and lacking a soul, mind, but definitely not thick.


/waves

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:54 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32618
Cavey wrote:
The pinnacle of all knowledge, truth and intellect is attained by being some sackless Guardian reader... lol. Yeah, you got me with THE GRAPH OF TRUTH.
You guys, huh. :D

That's not what that infographic says.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:56 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
Cavey wrote:
@Grim...
Nah, not upset (by a long chalk), just world-weary I guess.

The pinnacle of all knowledge, truth and intellect is attained by being some sackless Guardian reader... lol. Yeah, you got me with THE GRAPH OF TRUTH.

I'm not sure you understand the graph.

All it's saying is that Guardian readers are more likely to vote "remain". It's not measuring anything else.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:03 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
Cavey wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, for some clarity here, I'm (weakly) for 'in'.
But then, I did get a 'B' English Lan O Level.
:roll:

What are you upset about? The graph isn't made up.

...

I think. Let me find what we got.



There could be an suggestion from analysis of the graph that those that want out are on the right, and thick, and those wishing to remain are super clever and on the left.

Not from me there isn't. There are plenty on the right who are incredibly intelligent. Ruthless, cold, calculating, heartless and lacking a soul, mind, but definitely not thick.


/waves

i wasn't referring to you at all, but if you want to take it that way then fine!

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:04 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
CBA; not getting drawn again.
I'm not talking about just what that graph says, obviously. I'm also talking about the comments arising from it in this thread, and most especially Malc's pretty blunt statements about "people doing History and Science at school".

Mali commented on it, I've commented on it, it's not rocket science.

But like I have also said, I'm used to the smug-righteousness of the Left by now, most especially here (and despite the fact the Left having presided over the most evil an d/or inept shit these last 10 years in the UK alone; you really don't have anything - nothing at all - to be smug about, trust me).

But y'know, stuff to do etc. and I've said it all many times before anyway. Just makes me laugh (wryly), is all.

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:07 
User avatar
Isn't that lovely?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10910
Location: Devon
Cavey wrote:
...and despite the fact the Left having presided over the most evil an d/or inept shit these last 10 years in the UK alone...


In my opinion there has not been a left leaning government in the UK since the 70s.

_________________
Where's the Kaboom? I was expecting an Earth shattering Kaboom!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:10 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
Cavey wrote:
CBA; not getting drawn again.
I'm not talking about just what that graph says, obviously.

Yeah, that wasn't obvious.

If only I'd done my A levels!

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:11 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
Malc wrote:
Cavey wrote:
...and despite the fact the Left having presided over the most evil an d/or inept shit these last 10 years in the UK alone...


In my opinion there has not been a left leaning government in the UK since the 70s.


LOL, yeah, sorry, I was forgetting that one: 'Labour weren't actually left-leaning'.
Well hey, Malc, I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but y'know, you could've fooled me old son.

Still, you getting all misty-eyed for the glory, halcyon days of Labour in the 70s.... I was bloody there mate, 3-day week, strike after strike, begging bowl to the IMF, the Winter of Discontent. If that's your 'Golden Age' then it really does say it all. :D

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:11 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
Wait, I did do A levels.

Christ, I think there's something wrong with my brain.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:13 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
I did start my A-Levels, but sadly got expelled. My bad. :D

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:15 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27343
Location: Kidbrooke
Cavey wrote:
I did start my A-Levels, but sadly got expelled. My bad. :D


Bloody right wing agitators!

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:24 
User avatar
Isn't that lovely?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10910
Location: Devon
Cavey wrote:
...and most especially Malc's pretty blunt statements about "people doing History and Science at school"...


I am talking specifically about people taking at face value the assertions that immigration and migrants are causing most of the socioeconomic ills the currently befall the UK. I am suggesting that perhaps people whose education is not as complete as others may not be as good at critical analysis, and therefore when they read and hear statistics and sound bites that at face value appear to fit and explain the situation they are in. It's easier to just accept that. Whereas if you have a better education (and decide to use it) you may remember your history lessons and how to question the motives of the author.

I am not saying everyone who wants to leave the EU is like this, am I am also not saying that everyone who had a poor education is gullible, I am just suggesting a reason why I think the 2 might correlate.

_________________
Where's the Kaboom? I was expecting an Earth shattering Kaboom!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:28 
User avatar
Isn't that lovely?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10910
Location: Devon
Cavey wrote:
Malc wrote:
Cavey wrote:
...and despite the fact the Left having presided over the most evil an d/or inept shit these last 10 years in the UK alone...


In my opinion there has not been a left leaning government in the UK since the 70s.


LOL, yeah, sorry, I was forgetting that one: 'Labour weren't actually left-leaning'.
Well hey, Malc, I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but y'know, you could've fooled me old son.

Still, you getting all misty-eyed for the glory, halcyon days of Labour in the 70s.... I was bloody there mate, 3-day week, strike after strike, begging bowl to the IMF, the Winter of Discontent. If that's your 'Golden Age' then it really does say it all. :D


I was 4 when Maggie became PM, but from what I understand the 70s were pretty shit, so I'm not saying we should return to that, I just said that I don't think we've had a left leaning government since then (for what it's worth, I've never voted Conservative or Labour).

_________________
Where's the Kaboom? I was expecting an Earth shattering Kaboom!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:40 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
Cavey wrote:
the Left having presided over the most evil...shit these last 10 years in the UK alone

You can't have a selective memory here - more like a selective interpretation of the present. And you volunteer at a food bank. No way would you have had to do that ten years ago.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:46 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
Lonewolves wrote:
And you volunteer at a food bank. No way would you have had to do that ten years ago.

We just let people starve, right?

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:55 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
And you volunteer at a food bank. No way would you have had to do that ten years ago.

We just let people starve, right?

No we didn't. We had a proper welfare system looking after the sick, the poor and the disabled. For all Labour's wrongs (and there were a lot of them) they at least did that well.

Hey, at least this is finally Cameron's Big Society in action. Probably not what he had in mind though.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:56 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
Lol. Yeah, I've got the selective memory here, the fact that I need to work at a foodbank has got nowt to do with Labour utterly failing in their most basic governmental duty to regulate the banks (which at the time represented approx. half the entire world's financial sector, so don't give me all that "it was the world market guv" crap again), which is what caused all the austerity in the first place. Still, fat chance of regulating something you don't even understand, and behaved like a witless, vapid groupie/moll towards.

If you can't accept this then that's your problem, not mine. Me? I'm just trying to help people out but if you want to throw that at me to make some political point or other then knock yourself out, couldn't care less. :)

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:57 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
Lonewolves wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
And you volunteer at a food bank. No way would you have had to do that ten years ago.

We just let people starve, right?

No we didn't. We had a proper welfare system looking after the sick, the poor and the disabled. For all Labour's wrongs (and there were a lot of them) they at least did that well.

Hey, at least this is finally Cameron's Big Society in action. Probably not what he had in mind though.


Let's not forget that the Remploy closure programme was started by Labour.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:59 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32618
Grim... wrote:
We just let people starve, right?

To a pretty reasonable approximation, food banks didn't exist in the UK until 2004.

Image

Why?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30470120

Quote:
In its Feeding Britain report, published last week, the cross-party group of MPs and church leaders blamed an income squeeze, benefit delays and excessive utility bills for a big rise in the use of food banks in the UK.

It said the number of food banks had grown from a handful to the 420 run by the Trussell Trust in 10 years - and possibly at least many more being run independently.

The report said: "Benefit-related problems were the single biggest reason given for food bank referrals by almost every food bank that presented evidence to us.

"The inquiry is concerned that there are avoidable problems occurring in the administration of social security benefits, which have a particularly detrimental impact on poor and vulnerable claimants."


I don't think it is unreasonable to lay this at the door of Conservative policies of austerity in the benefits system.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:01 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32618
Cavey wrote:
Lol. Yeah, I've got the selective memory here, the fact that I need to work at a foodbank has got nowt to do with Labour utterly failing in their most basic governmental duty to regulate the banks (which at the time represented approx. half the entire world's financial sector, so don't give me all that "it was the world market guv" crap again), which is what caused all the austerity in the first place. Still, fat chance of regulating something you don't even understand, and behaved like a witless, vapid groupie/moll towards.
I'm just going to quote Cras's rebuttal to this fatuous point, which I note you completely ignored first time he made it.

Cras wrote:
Cavey wrote:
:roll:

Sigh. Yeah right, cue fantasist/apologist. Well I'm sorry Cras, it just doesn't wash mate, even bloody Corbyn - arch fantasist if ever there was - knows the score, and the British electorate at large know the score too, which is no doubt why he's saying it as an act of contrition. He's not that politically inept.

I really don't know what it would take to make you see reality/break you away from the whole "everyone else would've done the same" crap that's been dissected and debunked here a dozen times (and even Labour themselves have now totally abandoned), but I'm guessing nothing would, and I'm frankly past caring. I've come to the conclusion it's a belief system, basically, similar to the whole "Cybernats" thing, which is sad. Try to regain those critical faculties, man; face it, the argument is well and truly lost now, as even your own side now acknowledges.


Come on, man. I've never voted labour a day in my life, I'm anything but an apologist. I'd suggest that I am most likely to be the forum's best informed person (dubious honour though that is) on financial regulatory matters, however. There is no such thing as a UK financial regulatory environment. There hasn't been a UK financial regulatory environment since the eighties. Every single piece of regulation is agreed by every regulator. The reasons for this should be obvious - the minute one place becomes overly onerous to operate in, banks will shift operations elsewhere. That's why we never ended up with the 'Robin Hood Tax', or similar. The UK makes too much from the City to enforce any punishing level of regulation, and most other countries are in the same boat.

So what you have is effectively a cartel. A global group of banks, and a global group of regulators. Now the regulators do a decent job of tightening up the rules - Basel3 is a great example of something done post-crash to greatly improve the survivability of financial institutions by enforcing higher capital reserves - but everything they do is agreement by committee. If the UK wants to triple capital reserves and the US doesn't, it flat out doesn't happen.

So the light-touch banking regulation absolutely cannot be put at New Labour's door. It just can't. Literally the only thing they could have done is stood up, said 'fuck banking', implemented entirely their own UK-specific regulatory environment, and gutted the country's economy overnight.

Now, how the crisis was handled, you can absolutely blame Labour for, if you like. The response to it was entirely within their own control. Should they have bailed out the banks? I say yes, but of course that's motivated in no small measure by self-interest. Even without self-interest, of course, you're talking about a huge number of jobs and a massive impact to customers if the businesses go under. A lot of the choices that were made were excellent ones - the Special Liquidity scheme, as well as underwriting the FSCS to make sure that customers didn't lose their money when the banks did. There's plenty of arguments to be made on both sides there, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:02 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
Thanks Rich, that's the point I was making.

And Cavey, get that chip off your shoulder. You do good work with volunteering at a food bank. Just you wouldn't need to do it if you didn't vote Tory. ;)

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:09 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
@DocG

Yeah, that's me told, huh.

Protip: just because someone cannot be arsed to respond, for the nth time, doesn't mean they concede. It just means they can't be arsed.
If you're [now] saying it wasn't Labour's fault because there was no regulation of the banks anyway and it was all international, well, given the fact remains unaltered that it is the prime responsibility of UK government to effectively and successfully regulate the UK financial sector, then they [Labour] bloody well should've put such a regulatory regime in place. You cannot delegate or ignore responsibility. You need to learn this.

Of course, it's all complete balls anyway; if there was no regulation then it rather does beg the question of what Labour's idiotic tearing down and replacement of the previously broadly effective regulatory regime was all about, and in particular, something called 'The Financial Services Authority" (FSA) created by Labour with much trumpeting in 2001 (the clue's in the name), not to mention something else known as 'The Bank of England'. Honestly; you really actually believe this shit, don't you; even when Corbyn himself apologised the other day for Labour's failure to regulate the Banks, and Miliband before him (and arguably Brown before him) - it's still not enough. It wasn't Labour, honest guv (shortly followed by "I'm not a Labour supporter" :roll: ) Again, as I've said before, if you're not going to accept this culpability from two, even three leaders of the Labour Party, you're not going to take it from me - I can't help you. Pure head-in-bucket delusion; desperate stuff. Still, perhaps Corbyn, Milliband et al were being "fatuous" in their respective admissions and apologies... :D

I totally get that you cannot face up to even the most basic political culpability here; as I've said, this cult-like imbecility; this blinkered, black-is-white doublethink in order to avoid any blame for what is, admittedly, a catastrophe and undoing of all that you hold dear, is a characteristic of the Left. Whereas we, on the Right, can candidly discuss the absurdities and real politik implications of the Poll Tax; the ill-advised Lawson Boom; the catastrophic ERM, you lot can do no wrong. 'Conceited' and 'deluded' don't even begin to cover it, even to the point of denying what governments are even required to do, and what they're responsible for.

I've explained this before to you many, many times, so consider this the last.

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 723 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 15  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: The Greys, Vogons and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
cron
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.