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How do you feel about Britain leaving the EU?
1) I want the UK out of the EU at all costs. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2) I want out of the EU, unless there is some show stopper that means we should stay in. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
3) I want out of the EU, but could easily be persuaded to stay in. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
4) Not sure if we should stay in or out. 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
5) I want to stay in the EU, but could easily be persuaded to leave. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
6) I want to stay in the EU, unless there is a showstopper that means we should leave. 59%  59%  [ 22 ]
7) I want the UK to stay in the EU at all costs. 27%  27%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 37
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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:27 
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Cras wrote:
Do you think there's ever been a referendum of note where the populous at large could be thought to have a proper understanding of the issues?


Excluding the Kiwi Flag poll, geographical issues are the most obvious ones. You don't need to know the intricacies of the Barnet formula to grasp what a free Scotland might be like or a deep understanding of the balance of power in post-War Europe to vote for the Saarland joining West Germany.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:27 
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MaliA wrote:
Define "better viter"

You define it, it's your made up word.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:28 
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markg wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Define "better viter"

You define it, it's your made up word.


It's like life, but better.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:31 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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markg wrote:
Probably not, but then there are a whole raft of issues where the politicians making decisions don't either, or at least they wilfully ignore it. Climate change, drugs prohibition, crime and punishment. None of it is perfect.


No, but then the politicians have an army of civil servants and think tanks to inform their knowledge. Wilful ignoring absolutely - that's always going to be the case whenever anyone has an opinion or agenda.

Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
Do you think there's ever been a referendum of note where the populous at large could be thought to have a proper understanding of the issues?


Excluding the Kiwi Flag poll, geographical issues are the most obvious ones. You don't need to know the intricacies of the Barnet formula to grasp what a free Scotland might be like.


That was clearly shown not to be the case though. Throughout the Indyref there were vastly wild claims regarding Scotland's economic prosperity post-referendum on both sides, with little concrete evidence that the public could be expected to understand.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:34 
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INFINITE POWAH

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MaliA wrote:
Define "better viter"

Well, me, obviously. “One man, one vote”.

In the book, IIRC it was people who were assessed by algorithms and stuff as being better informed and “correct” more often. Although I can't remember how "correct" was determined, if indeed it was. I want to read The Prefect again anyway, so will do that when I've finished Poseidon's Wake.

But if we did move to having more referenda on things, perhaps people could take tests to determine the weighting of their votes.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:36 
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Cras wrote:
That was clearly shown not to be the case though. Throughout the Indyref there were vastly wild claims regarding Scotland's economic prosperity post-referendum on both sides, with little concrete evidence that the public could be expected to understand.


The core of the question was about power, where it should be held, and who should exercise it. I think people could grasp this even if it wasn't very well articulated amid all the noise.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:36 
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MrChris wrote:
Although I can't remember how "correct" was determined, if indeed it was.


Generally, it's defined as 'do they agree with me at this particular point in time?'.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:59 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
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I think that the metrics to be taken into account in determining vote weighting are complex, and therefore time should be taken to get them right. However, I'm aware of the immediate important issue.

Therefore within 60 days of the commencement of my reign of terror I will put forward the Ryanair Superlicense bill, which will provide that people can only fly on scheduled airlines once that have taken five flights with Ryanair and proven themselves capable of taking a flight without behaving like a complete and utter dick. Once their behaviour has been appraised and reviewed by a committee formed solely of me, they will be issued with a Ryanair Superlicense that permits boarding on any flight operated by any carrier. Their license will be renewed every 5 years and is revoked immediately upon acting like a dick on a flight.

In the interim period, only holders of the Ryanair Superlicence may vote, until a more relevant (but similar) set of characteristics to qualify have been consulted upon.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:07 
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Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
That was clearly shown not to be the case though. Throughout the Indyref there were vastly wild claims regarding Scotland's economic prosperity post-referendum on both sides, with little concrete evidence that the public could be expected to understand.


The core of the question was about power, where it should be held, and who should exercise it. I think people could grasp this even if it wasn't very well articulated amid all the noise.


The core is irrelevant though. You can have absolute power centred in Holyrood if you want, but if that power sits atop a non-existant economy, massive national recession, and an impoverished nation, you're screwed.

Constitutional issues cannot exist in isolation.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:16 
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Gogmagog

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Jo Cox suspect bought gun manuals from US neo-Nazis, group claims and there's been talk of a link to a South African pro-Arpartheid group.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:43 
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Well this is lovely


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:59 
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INFINITE POWAH

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The Netherlands is the best.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 13:16 
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MaliA wrote:
Jo Cox suspect bought gun manuals from US neo-Nazis, group claims and there's been talk of a link to a South African pro-Arpartheid group.


He was a past subscriber to A South African Patriot magazine, a Neo Nazi publication. The magazine have been quick to respond and say his subscription was in the 1980's and not renewed and that the people who publish the magazine had never met him


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 13:20 
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Can't re-member

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I love James O'Brien.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/j ... ain-today/

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 13:26 
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Pretty spot on

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 16:26 
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Gogmagog

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asfish wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Jo Cox suspect bought gun manuals from US neo-Nazis, group claims and there's been talk of a link to a South African pro-Arpartheid group.


He was a past subscriber to A South African Patriot magazine, a Neo Nazi publication. The magazine have been quick to respond and say his subscription was in the 1980's and not renewed and that the people who publish the magazine had never met him


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... oup-claims

Quote:
A picture is now emerging of a deliberately targeted attack in which Mair lay in wait for the MP as she emerged from her constituency surgery on Thursday. Witnesses have confirmed that he shouted “Britain first” or “Put Britain first”


There is a huge feeling of shock here.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 18:43 
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Quote:
There is a huge feeling of shock here.


So you live in or close to the area? I can imagine, its a shock everywhere, this doesn't happen in the UK

Worse now its looking like he had a premeditated plan and some twisted political ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 20:18 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Yeah I work there.

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:14 
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Goth

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VOTE LAVE (I'm sure this has been done already but still)


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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:25 
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Sleepyhead

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The guy who killed Jo Cox just gave his name in court as "My name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain".

So, yeah, political killing it is. Who'd have thought?

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:20 
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Isn't that lovely?

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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/review-of-t ... ompetences

If you are interested in the UK's relationship to the EU and what the foreign office thought if it between 2012 and 2014, then have a look at the above link. Apparently there is enough information to fill an entire library shelf worth of books!

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:29 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Should have put an accumulator on Leave + PM Boris. I reckon they come as a twofer.


Leave + Boris + Trump


We'd be millionaire

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 Post subject: Re: EU in or out?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:46 
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It wouldn't cover the amount we need to drink to mask the pain.


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