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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 14:45 
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An interesting article on support and the expiry of support.

https://www.hpe.com/us/en/insights/arti ... C500AD42A2

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:10 
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KovacsC wrote:
An interesting article on support and the expiry of support.

https://www.hpe.com/us/en/insights/arti ... C500AD42A2


Interesting. I've just received my new laptop from my new employer. I was dreading having to use Win 10, but it's got Win 7 Enterprise on it. Clearly they haven't considered, or aren't aware of the impending end of the updates.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 13:13 
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Warhead wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
An interesting article on support and the expiry of support.

https://www.hpe.com/us/en/insights/arti ... C500AD42A2


Interesting. I've just received my new laptop from my new employer. I was dreading having to use Win 10, but it's got Win 7 Enterprise on it. Clearly they haven't considered, or aren't aware of the impending end of the updates.


You can very easily make Win10 work exactly the same as Win7; there's nothing to fear from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 13:33 
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Also if they have a premier support account with MS, there is no pending end of updates for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 13:52 
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But it's going to get expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 14:37 
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Bamba wrote:
Warhead wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
An interesting article on support and the expiry of support.

https://www.hpe.com/us/en/insights/arti ... C500AD42A2


Interesting. I've just received my new laptop from my new employer. I was dreading having to use Win 10, but it's got Win 7 Enterprise on it. Clearly they haven't considered, or aren't aware of the impending end of the updates.


You can very easily make Win10 work exactly the same as Win7; there's nothing to fear from it.


Not sure that the severe lock down that my new employer has on its kit would allow that IF we had Win 10, but we dont, so its all academic.

And I don't fear it, I just think it a pile of foetid dingos' kidneys.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 15:36 
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Warhead wrote:
Not sure that the severe lock down that my new employer has on its kit would allow that IF we had Win 10, but we dont, so its all academic.


The only thing you need to do is remove all the junk they nail onto the side of the Start Menu by default; you'd hope that any lockdown would still allow that amount of trivial customisation.

Warhead wrote:
And I don't fear it, I just think it a pile of foetid dingos' kidneys.


Fair enough. I've had no issues with it myself and I came straight from Win7.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 15:51 
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I have to admit I've hardly had any experience of it, apart from my sis-in-law's laptop that she bought a couple of years ago.

There were two things that pissed me off; the way that Edge just hung when I tried to do anything with it, but worse was the lack of a facility to import contacts from her old machine in to the native mail client. That's completely pathetic. Oh, and the general design which I still think looks cheap and nasty.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 17:24 
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Warhead wrote:
the way that Edge just hung when I tried to do anything with it


I mean, there's an easy and obvious solution to that...

Although, I don't think it's entirely fair to hold that against the OS when it's an app level thing.

Warhead wrote:
but worse was the lack of a facility to import contacts from her old machine in to the native mail client. That's completely pathetic.


Again that's arguably an issue with that single app rather than an OS level; though it obviously doesn't help to give a brilliant first impression.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 17:32 
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Windows (and Android) have very often been fucked in the First Impressions department by OEM bloatware.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 17:33 
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DavPaz wrote:
Windows (and Android) have very often been fucked in the First Impressions department by OEM bloatware.


Indeed, though Warhead's issues are with natives apps so it seems Microsoft are looking to get in on that action themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 17:35 
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Yeah, Windows 10 does through a huge heap of crap at you on first run. Easily removed, though


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 17:39 
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I've tried everything I can, but no matter how much fiddling with its innards I try, '3D Objects' still appears as one of my favourite places. Grrr...


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 21:29 
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Kern wrote:
I've tried everything I can, but no matter how much fiddling with its innards I try, '3D Objects' still appears as one of my favourite places. Grrr...

Titling the fuck out of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 16:17 
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Bamba wrote:
Warhead wrote:
the way that Edge just hung when I tried to do anything with it


I mean, there's an easy and obvious solution to that...

Although, I don't think it's entirely fair to hold that against the OS when it's an app level thing.

Warhead wrote:
but worse was the lack of a facility to import contacts from her old machine in to the native mail client. That's completely pathetic.


Again that's arguably an issue with that single app rather than an OS level; though it obviously doesn't help to give a brilliant first impression.


I take your point on both issues.

From my POV I was just trying to get my sis-in-law's new laptop ready to use. She's in her 70s an not very tech savvy, so anything that fails to work as advertised gets dumped on me.

MS were bleating on about how Edge was their browser beater and all it did was hang her machine whenever I used it, so I just advised her to avoid it. Updates probably fixed it later, but I wouldn't have seen them as it wasn't my laptop. Whether these problems were app or Windows based was an irrelevance to us on the day of purchase. The apps were bundled with Win 10 and didn't meet our expectations.

It didn't help that her old PC was completely dead so I had to take the HDD out and stick it in a caddy to be able to extract her contacts details and manually reinput them into the native mail client. There wasn't any facility to import contacts in any format. I call that fundamentally crap.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 23:26 
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So the 1809 'October' (LOL) update hit the Minecraft server late last night aaaaaaand.......

It's broken the backup. The Microsoft Windows backup, not a third party backup, their own fucking backup tool.

I know this because the nightly backup just tried to run at 10pm this evening and failed horribly, complaining of a 'write protected disk'.

Cheers Microsoft, you useless cunts.

Known issue, here's the thread, they've fucked their own backup tool.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 283?auth=1

(This will also break the backup on Mrs Hearthly's and Hearthly Jnr's PCs when they get infected by Microsoft's own fucking malware.)

EDIT - And as was noted here, backups can be important..... It's a good thing I keep an eye on this shit, imagine if the backup started failing and I didn't notice for a week......

https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/ ... 5#p1007235

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 15:18 
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Ok

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:03 
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How about you fix all the fucking bugs first, eh? Before replacing things THAT ALREADY WORK PERFECTLY WELL.

Fuckrags.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:06 
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Christ, I use snipping tool constantly, it's one of the best things in Windows.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:12 
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Cras wrote:
Christ, I use snipping tool constantly, it's one of the best things in Windows.


:this:

I particularly like the fact that once you've snipped the image you want, it's automatically copied to the clipboard ready to paste into an email/skype etc

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:19 
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Over £100 for a Windows 10 licence and Microsoft basically just come in at will, vandalize my computers, break things, and remove things.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:30 
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Cras wrote:
Christ, I use snipping tool constantly, it's one of the best things in Windows.

The new tool is neat though: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use- ... 018-update The addition of markup/annotation alone makes this a justifiable change.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:30 
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Hearthly wrote:
Over £100 for a Windows 10 licence and Microsoft basically just come in at will, vandalize my computers, break things, and remove things.

Oh come on.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:51 
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Hearthly wrote:
Over £100 for a Windows 10 licence and Microsoft basically just come in at will, vandalize my computers, break things, and remove things.

Old_Man_Shouts_At_Cloud.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:05 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Christ, I use snipping tool constantly, it's one of the best things in Windows.

The new tool is neat though: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use- ... 018-update The addition of markup/annotation alone makes this a justifiable change.


Snipping tool has markup and annotation.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:29 
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DavPaz wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Over £100 for a Windows 10 licence and Microsoft basically just come in at will, vandalize my computers, break things, and remove things.

Old_Man_Shouts_At_Cloud.jpg


Try looking after all the shit that I do, the PCs, iPads, phones, laptops and other devices plus the smooth running of every single piece of hardware attached to them, and software installed on them, and all interactions between them, including backups, restore, cloud etc, 24/7/365, and see how much patience you have for the purveyor of one of your operating systems swooping in and, for example, completely breaking THEIR OWN BACKUP SOLUTION on your Minecraft Server. (Jnr trashed the house before I got home to recover the server from a backup, now magnify that by 'the server could not be recovered and Jnr's world was lost'.)

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:35 
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Epic tantz

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:36 
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Oh gee, you're right, none of us look after computers.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:36 
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You're so unique and special. How dare the world change without your permission!


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:36 
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Although you'd better believe we have off-site backups because we're not insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 13:42 
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Grim... wrote:
Oh gee, you're right, none of us look after computers.


Yeah because I didn't know that and the news comes as a complete surprise to me.

I don't think it's OK for Microsoft to break their own backup solution without so much as an acknowledgement or warning, for me to only realise they'd broken it because I check on this shit daily (because I essentially have zero trust or faith in Microsoft at this point), and to then have to implement an alternative because they broke their own shit.

The 1809 update has been a rolling clusterfuck from the start, and even now it still doesn't work properly.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 14:08 
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About the only thing I don't like is how you can't stop the updates. Or can you? IDK.

I had an older rig running on a 60gb SSD. It worked perfectly for gaming at my mother's. Any way, it updated itself to the point where it ran out of drive and then started compressing files (without asking) and then slapped an arrow on all of my icons and folders etc to show they were compressed. Performance then tanked. I know 60gb SSD is rather small but the prices they were when I built the rig? I simply couldn't afford anything bigger.

Doesn't matter too much now as the GPU certainly in that rig was hanging on for dear life (Fury X, really old) so I just replaced it with something a bit newer with a better GPU and £21 120gb SSD.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 15:00 
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Hearthly wrote:

I don't think it's OK for Microsoft to break their own backup solution without so much as an acknowledgement or warning, for me to only realise they'd broken it because I check on this shit daily (because I essentially have zero trust or faith in Microsoft at this point), and to then have to implement an alternative because they broke their own shit.

Of course it isn’t. But it’s a bug that slipped through testing and will probably be fixed shortly. You’re talking like it was deliberate. I’m not saying it’s good that this happened, but let’s keep a sense of proportion.

There’s an alternate universe Hearthly ranting this very second about how his computer was lost to ransomware because Microsoft don’t update often enough and didn’t close a critical security hole.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 15:07 
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Hearthly wrote:
(Jnr trashed the house before I got home to recover the server from a backup, now magnify that by 'the server could not be recovered and Jnr's world was lost'.)

Is Microsoft’s consumer-grade on-premises backup the only defence you have against data loss?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 15:15 
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Where by “consumer grade” it turns out I mean actually deprecated.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 16:30 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
(Jnr trashed the house before I got home to recover the server from a backup, now magnify that by 'the server could not be recovered and Jnr's world was lost'.)

Is Microsoft’s consumer-grade on-premises backup the only defence you have against data loss?


Nope, the Minecraft Server is backed up weekly to OneDrive and I also maintain an encrypted offsite backup of all files (including the Minecraft server), this is refreshed every 2 months. (These are protection against 'the house burned down' scenario.)

Internally I maintain various backups onto internal hard drives, external hard drives and a NAS. These are done via scripted robocopy jobs, Goodsync and up until a couple of nights ago, Windows Backup. (The total backup real estate now runs into terabytes, hence flinging the whole lot up into the cloud isn't viable yet, but I'm hoping we'll be there in a year or two. Manx Telecom are laying fibre around the island at the moment but it's not to our house yet, and cloud storage needs to come down in price a bit. For now we're on VDSL with only 10meg up.)

We also all have our own 1TB OneDrive space which does Documents, Desktop and Pictures for each of us.

So for the Minecraft server, for example, I have three local copies, one cloud copy, and one encrypted offsite copy. The point of having the local backups available is for a quick restore of the server when required, which has been needed several times over the last 2-3 years, the most recent being when the server corrupted a couple of weeks ago.

Another one that springs to mind is when Mrs Hearthly asked for command blocks to be enabled on the server. 'Are you sure you know what you're doing? You can really break things badly with command blocks you know', and Mrs Hearthly is like, 'Yes of course I am I've looked it up', one failed experiment with portals later and she literally managed to annihilate the entire world apart from the little cave that her and Jnr were standing in. 'Would you like a restore from backup then?', I enquired.....

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Where by “consumer grade” it turns out I mean actually deprecated.


Yes I was very much aware of this, which leads me to fear they might not fix it, even though they've broken it accidentally.

I might just buy some extra Goodsync licences and be done with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:28 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
There’s an alternate universe Hearthly ranting this very second about how his computer was lost to ransomware because Microsoft don’t update often enough and didn’t close a critical security hole.


But this was a feature update, not a security update. Yes I know the lines are probably blurred in all sorts of ways but they can keep Windows 7 current and secure with security updates without adding or changing its functionality at all, however with Windows 10 you get the new features whether you want them or not.

I'd like the option for the user to put the OS into one of two modes:

1) Security updates only (a mandatory minimum)
2) Feature and security updates (user choice)

I suspect this is probably achievable, as MS deliver the security CUs and updates separately to the feature updates - they just don't want to. (There's also the fact that the major feature updates essentially just reinstall the OS, which leads me to think they could support the other branches with security updates only, especially as many enterprises do exactly this.)

All the PCs in the house would be on Windows 7 were it not for the fact it's on borrowed time. (We do still have two Windows 7 machines in the house, which are a lot less of a faff than the Windows 10 machines.)

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:06 
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Not a bad idea, keeping the updates voluntary, but it would massively fracture the install base, similarly to the problem that Android faces


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:07 
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They already do that. Enterprise, for example, has long-term support branches. They deliver security and other critical fixes to the last 2 or 3 feature releases (so yeah, "long term in quotes"). Dunno what other SKUs have similar. Embedded, probably.

But home and Pro users are the beta testers.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 19:37 
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BikNorton wrote:
They already do that. Enterprise, for example, has long-term support branches. They deliver security and other critical fixes to the last 2 or 3 feature releases (so yeah, "long term in quotes"). Dunno what other SKUs have similar. Embedded, probably.

But home and Pro users are the beta testers.


Pro allows for feature updates to be deferred for up to a year, which I make full use of. (Along with the Group Policy Editor, which I've used to stop auto-updates).
Haven't had Windows 10 installed on single PC for as long as a year yet to test if the group policy changes stop them, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 17:47 
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My surface pro 4 was finally offered 1809 - a march build!

The WiFi was fucked after, connected but no internet. Eventually I figured out it was something to do with the hyper-v bridge it was in, removed it and it worked.

Could be something to do with visual studio 2017 or 2019 I guess?

Well done Microsoft, after 6 months you still fucked up a completely MS situation!

Trying to recreate the bridge gave an error so now I've no idea what to do when I want a VM to do internets.


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