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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 17:56 
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::deep, miserable sigh::

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ns-eu-vote


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:46 
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Thanks

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If anyone ever asks you to define 'the patience of a saint'.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:49 
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Unpossible!

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Ha! Richard just called himself a Journalist :DD


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:56 
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Thanks

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Since when did 'Some people say' become a debating position to adopt when presented with hard facts?

'Some people say the moon is made of cheese, what do you say to them?'

'But we've brought samples of the moon back, it's not made of cheese'

'Some people say it is made of cheese though, how do you respond to their claim?'

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:58 
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Unpossible!

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Hearthly wrote:
Since when did 'Some people say' become a debating position to adopt when presented with hard facts?

'Some people say the moon is made of cheese, what do you say to them?'

'But we've brought samples of the moon back, it's not made of cheese'

'Some people say it is made of cheese though, how do you respond to their claim?'

Accuse them of gas-lighting.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:47 
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Richard Madeley is now, and always has been, a lightweight and fucking useless.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:33 
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I think I rather enjoyed the past fortnight away from Brexit. I've properly experienced it, but I imagine that must be what being in the eye of a hurricane was like.

Anyway, Parliament's back, Mr Farage is back, and I'm already reading crap like this:

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1121307027106598912




Also, does anyone know what happened to Lord Adonis? I think he was secretly replaced by a replicant whilst we were away.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:37 
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He got the nod for labour MEP candidate. Which means he's now Mr Party Line.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:41 
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Sleepyhead

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It’s quite embarrassing how he has switched almost mid-sentence from “Brexit is awful and terrible and it can’t work” to “Vote for Labour because we love Brexit and it will be amazing”.

I know he’ll likely switch back to being an agitator if/when voted in, but it really annoys me and is one of the reasons I won’t vote Labour in the Euro elections.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:45 
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Curiosity wrote:
It’s quite embarrassing how he has switched almost mid-sentence from “Brexit is awful and terrible and it can’t work” to “Vote for Labour because we love Brexit and it will be amazing”.


For most issues, whilst I'd probably not enjoy being Mr Party Line, I could probably swallow my pride and follow it in the knowledge that I'm doing good work elsewhere. But from time to time an issue comes along that's so fundamentally important, you have to stick to your principles. Brexit is the totemtic issue of our time, and he's one of the leading critics of it. He can't eat his words now without providing some really intense evidence on what he got wrong.

Still, Paris is worth a Mass and all that..


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:49 
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Sleepyhead

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Kern wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
It’s quite embarrassing how he has switched almost mid-sentence from “Brexit is awful and terrible and it can’t work” to “Vote for Labour because we love Brexit and it will be amazing”.


For most issues, whilst I'd probably not enjoy being Mr Party Line, I could probably swallow my pride and follow it in the knowledge that I'm doing good work elsewhere. But from time to time an issue comes along that's so fundamentally important, you have to stick to your principles. Brexit is the totemtic issue of our time, and he's one of the leading critics of it. He can't eat his words now without providing some really intense evidence on what he got wrong.

Still, Paris is worth a Mass and all that..


Knowledge is power.

France is bacon.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:44 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
The BBC are reporting that the government's paid Eurotunnel £33 million to settle the lawsuit over the fantasy ferry contract.

That Magic Money Tree keeps on delivering!

P&O not happy!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rry-fiasco

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:49 
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MaliA wrote:
Kern wrote:
The BBC are reporting that the government's paid Eurotunnel £33 million to settle the lawsuit over the fantasy ferry contract.

That Magic Money Tree keeps on delivering!

P&O not happy!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rry-fiasco


I refer you to my previous answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 14:19 
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https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fu ... ccounter=1

The thanks we members get for staying loyal is being expected to put this crappy leaflet through people’s letterboxes.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 14:20 
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https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/11 ... 8004498433




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:45 
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The Constitution Unit at UCL have published a handy primer on the European elections and how the voting system works if you like that sort of thing.

Quote:
7. Will the election be a proxy second Brexit referendum?

Few people in the UK will be greatly interested in what the results of these elections mean for the balance of power within the European Parliament. Rather, the outcome will be interpreted primarily in terms of what it says about the balance of opinion on Brexit. Many will tout them as a proxy for another Brexit referendum.

The elections will provide some useful information on this. But it will fall well short of a referendum as an indicator of the public’s view. Among the parties with a clear Brexit position, the seat shares will not be a reliable indicator of Leave/Remain sentiment, for the reasons given above: votes will translate into seats rather haphazardly. Beyond seats, the combined vote shares for the strongly pro- and anti-Brexit parties will indicate voters’ Brexit preferences rather better. Meanwhile, however, inferring Brexit attitudes from support for Labour and the Conservatives would be hazardous. In addition, the franchise will likely be different from that of any actual referendum, and turnout will almost certainly be much lower.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:53 
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Kern wrote:
The Constitution Unit at UCL have published a handy primer on the European elections and how the voting system works if you like that sort of thing.


"Given the polling evidence, this is particularly pertinent for the unambiguously anti-Brexit parties, which would have won more seats had they united behind a single list than they will running separately."

I fear we will come to regard this decision as a dreadful mistake when the dust settles.

Edit -- although the article does to go on to explain the mechanics of a merged list are more difficult than I realised.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:10 
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https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1 ... 8206487552




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:59 
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Oh, Jeremy Corbyn. So Labour's poicy is to hold a referendum only after they fail to get 'necessary changes' to the government's deal for a better unicorn (they want a purple one) and fail to win a general election. At this stage, that's not good enough. A fudge in 2017 was probably justifiable, even though it lets ministers say '80% of people voted for this', but we're too far down the line now to carry on with this. So, Green or TPFKATIG.

Meanwhile, Mr Farage's 'Brexit Party' won't provide us with any policies or details of where its money's coming from, and is doing reasonably well, but at the expense of the Tories, not Labour. So I don't think there's a need to go chasing those voters.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:18 
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Lord Humongous

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Yeah...

So tactically, are Green the best option for vote for, for someone who want's to stay in the EU and put a halt to Brexit bollocks?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:20 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Zardoz wrote:
Yeah...

So tactically, are Green the best option for vote for, for someone who want's to stay in the EU and put a halt to Brexit bollocks?


I was hoping they would be, but the polls are all over the place, sometimes putting TIG on top, sometimes LibDems and sometimes Greens.

I would say if you're a natural Labour voter, then Greens would be closer than the others, but I might be biased.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:23 
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Lord Humongous

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It's another shite situation where we have all the anti-Brexit parties scrapping over votes rather than one main party that would have a stronger chance :(

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:25 
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Your choice depends on the local government area and Euro-region. Don't forget the LibDems either (although it's very easy to). I have some doubts about the Greens when it comes to GMO and nuclear power, but for the Euros they're the better choice for me as they are part of an established group and, yeah, for a contiental assembly that matters if you want things done.

But mostly I want to give Labour a shot across the bows on this issue. Single-issue Brexity people won't be going to Labour, after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:33 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Malc wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Yeah...

So tactically, are Green the best option for vote for, for someone who want's to stay in the EU and put a halt to Brexit bollocks?


I was hoping they would be, but the polls are all over the place, sometimes putting TIG on top, sometimes LibDems and sometimes Greens.

I would say if you're a natural Labour voter, then Greens would be closer than the others, but I might be biased.


Yougov ( https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... _bpc_w.pdf ) have the NW voting as:

Code:
36 Labour
27 Brexit Party
10 Green
9 Conservative
7 Change UK - The Independent Group
6 UK Independence Party (UKIP)
5 Liberal Democrat

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Zardoz wrote:
It's another shite situation where we have all the anti-Brexit parties scrapping over votes rather than one main party that would have a stronger chance :(


It's actually really hard for them to work together under the system we have, check out the link in Kern's previous post:

Kern wrote:
The Constitution Unit at UCL have published a handy primer on the European elections and how the voting system works if you like that sort of thing.

Quote:
7. Will the election be a proxy second Brexit referendum?

Few people in the UK will be greatly interested in what the results of these elections mean for the balance of power within the European Parliament. Rather, the outcome will be interpreted primarily in terms of what it says about the balance of opinion on Brexit. Many will tout them as a proxy for another Brexit referendum.

The elections will provide some useful information on this. But it will fall well short of a referendum as an indicator of the public’s view. Among the parties with a clear Brexit position, the seat shares will not be a reliable indicator of Leave/Remain sentiment, for the reasons given above: votes will translate into seats rather haphazardly. Beyond seats, the combined vote shares for the strongly pro- and anti-Brexit parties will indicate voters’ Brexit preferences rather better. Meanwhile, however, inferring Brexit attitudes from support for Labour and the Conservatives would be hazardous. In addition, the franchise will likely be different from that of any actual referendum, and turnout will almost certainly be much lower.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:37 
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Lord Humongous

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Malc wrote:
Malc wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Yeah...

So tactically, are Green the best option for vote for, for someone who want's to stay in the EU and put a halt to Brexit bollocks?


I was hoping they would be, but the polls are all over the place, sometimes putting TIG on top, sometimes LibDems and sometimes Greens.

I would say if you're a natural Labour voter, then Greens would be closer than the others, but I might be biased.


Yougov ( https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... _bpc_w.pdf ) have the NW voting as:

Code:
36 Labour
27 Brexit Party
10 Green
9 Conservative
7 Change UK - The Independent Group
6 UK Independence Party (UKIP)
5 Liberal Democrat


Cheers Malc, yeah just been having a mooch on there.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:37 
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Lord Humongous

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Kern, just tell me what to do please :)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:40 
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Zardoz wrote:
Kern, just tell me what to do please :)


Vote.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:05 
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I would suggest reading what your local candidates main aims and policies are, and who their party aligns with in the EP.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:23 
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Check out @LittleGravitas’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/LittleGravitas/stat ... 7686347776




"We are in there, tying to bail you guys out...."

Oops, Barry

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:08 
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Whenever I see Barry Gardiner on the TV he comes across as a gentleman poisoner in a Sunday afternoon ITV period drama.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 19:32 
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It is absolutely staggering that May is managing to portray this as a vote to get Brexit done.

The failure of ability to reason involved in those being words that a person can say in public.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 20:14 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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McDonnell is saying the exact same thing. It's completely insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 20:23 
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Gogmagog

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And Corbyn.

Also,

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rs-leavers

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 20:30 
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Owen Jones is a massive twat.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 21:08 
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Gogmagog

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After today, I cannot wait for the European elections.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 8:37 
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BikNorton wrote:
It is absolutely staggering that May is managing to portray this as a vote to get Brexit done.


Thinking about this early this morning, I think May's entire mindset centres around the Conservative Party, and it's a pretty Brexity party these days. So for her, losing over 1000 councillors cannot possibly be due to anything other than Brexit. The rest of the country doesn't even figure as a blip on her radar.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:45 
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I was in a small rural(ish) pub yesterday and on the blackboard the landlord had written "if you mention Brexit, you'll be shown the exit".


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:47 
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Paws for thought

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Kern wrote:
I was in a small rural(ish) pub yesterday and on the blackboard the landlord had written "if you mention Brexit, you'll be shown the exit".

Man. Mr Cameron could have done with that a few years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 16:18 
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Hmm:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... ase-talks/
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Quote:
Theresa May has held secret discussions over a three-way second referendum ahead of a crunch meeting with Labour this week to agree a cross-party Brexit deal.

The Prime Minister has carried out “scenario planning” with aides and ministers in case the Government cannot prevent a Parliamentary vote on a second referendum.

John McDonnell, the shadow Chancellor, said it “may well” be the case that any deal would have to be put to a second referendum, adding: “I think the Conservatives have to recognise that if a deal is going to go through there might be a large number of MPs who will want a public vote."

Mrs May and her advisers are understood to have 'war gamed' the possibility of giving voters a choice of her deal, no deal and remain, though Government sources insisted it would only become relevant if talks with Labour collapse and Parliament forces a vote on a second referendum.

That could happen either through a series of “indicative votes”, which are Mrs May’s plan B if the Labour talks fail, or through an amendment to Brexit legislation.

The Prime Minister believes that if MPs insist on a public vote that would include Remain as one of the options, the public would also have to be given the choice of a no deal Brexit and a Brexit with a deal.

Downing Street sources denied there had been a meeting to discuss a second referendum.
Last week’s local election results, in which both main parties did badly, have been interpreted as a sign that voters want Brexit to be delivered cleanly and swiftly, and Mrs May on Sunday appealed to Jeremy Corbyn to help settle the issue, saying: “Let’s do a deal.”

Mrs May is understood to be on the brink of offering Labour a temporary but comprehensive "customs arrangement" which would last until the next general election - allowing the winner of that election to decide on more permanent arrangements.

The Prime Minister is also ready to offer Labour permanent alignment of workers’ rights with EU rules, and closer regulatory alignment with the EU.

Over the weekend a Tory MPs WhatsApp group was filled with comments opposing a deal with Labour. One Tory MP said “80 to 90 per cent” of backbenchers were against a cross-party deal, suggesting Mrs May would struggle to get a deal through Parliament.

More than 100 opposition MPs have signed a letter saying they, too, are opposed to such a deal, largely because they want the public to be guaranteed the final say on a deal via a second referendum.

Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative leader, said: “Even if a deal is agreed I’m not sure it could get through Parliament because a huge number of Conservatives will vote against a stitch-up customs deal with Labour.
“We have always worked on the principle that Jeremy Corbyn is unfit for Government, but with one bound we would be saying he must be fit to govern because we have allowed him to steer this deal.”

Mr McDonnell cast doubt on whether the cross-party talks could succeed, saying he did not trust Mrs May and accusing her of "acting in bad faith" by leaking details of what would be discussed on Tuesday.
Writing in Monday’s Daily Telegraph, Boris Johnson says the local election results were not as catastrophic as the previous low in 1995, because at that point the Tories were up against Tony Blair, who seemed to “own the future” whereas Jeremy Corbyn is a “staggeringly inept” opponent.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 23:01 
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Never did a polling card fill me with more joy.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 23:14 
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It's fantastic timing. Not going to be able to vote.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 23:18 
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Can't re-member

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Mr Dave wrote:
It's fantastic timing. Not going to be able to vote.

You can vote by proxy.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 15:37 
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Ouch!

https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/ ... 1505159169




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 16:29 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Problem there is that Andrea Jenkyns is a complete plank.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:08 
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I probably should watch the BBC4 show on how the EU have handled the negotiations, but as with the recent Kussenberg one I think I'd rather save it for a modern history class in the 2030s.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 13:13 
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Gogmagog

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Check out @BBCNormanS’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1 ... 2951009280




Tin eared fool.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 13:20 
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MaliA wrote:
Check out @BBCNormanS’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1 ... 2951009280




Tin eared fool.


Oh, yeah, I forgot about that pool of 17.4 million Labour voters.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 13:20 
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MaliA wrote:
Check out @BBCNormanS’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1 ... 2951009280




Giphy "tin eared fool":
https://media2.giphy.com/media/QUEyfJuGS9L5S/giphy-loop.mp4.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:17 
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Sleepyhead

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One thing that really annoys me is that he made such a big deal about the Labour Party being more democratic and giving power to the members. Then the second the members want something he doesn’t, he just ignores them entirely.

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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
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RIP, Owen.

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