Be Excellent To Each Other
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Taking the Brexit
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479
Page 68 of 131

Author:  Mimi [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Curiosity wrote:
And today, Nigel Farage is backing a second referendum.

What what? What?

Author:  Zardoz [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Mimi wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
And today, Nigel Farage is backing a second referendum.

What what? What?

:this: :this: , :this:

Author:  Squirt [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

More to put a final nail in the coffin of those whinging remoaners than for any "final say on the form of the deal" reasons.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42649214

Author:  Trousers [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Squirt wrote:
More to put a final nail in the coffin of those whinging remoaners than for any "final say on the form of the deal" reasons.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42649214


Like fuck.

As many have pointed out when Brexit inevitably fucks up people will start pointing fingers and it's a lot easier after another referendum that ends in a remain result to be sat on the sidelines throwing pelters without offering solutions.

He has no real source of income now but as soon as there's another referendum rent-a-gob is right back in the limelight and then when he loses it can all be the fault of The BBC, Liberal Elite, Mainstream Media, Women, Immigrants and the letter Y.

Author:  myp [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Isn't he still an MEP? So if we remain he keeps his job and can keep moaning.

Author:  Bamba [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Lonewolves wrote:
Isn't he still an MEP?


I continue to find this fact utterly fucking mind-boggling.

Author:  myp [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Bamba wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Isn't he still an MEP?


I continue to find this fact utterly fucking mind-boggling.

Easy money innit.

Author:  Bobbyaro [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Lonewolves wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Isn't he still an MEP?


I continue to find this fact utterly fucking mind-boggling.

Easy money innit.

It is still fucking mind boggling, though.

Author:  Cras [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 19:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Well 750,000 twats in South East England voted UKIP in the 2014 European Parliament election. That's how.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

BBC: £350m Brexit claim was 'too low', says Boris Johnson

Oh, please kindly go on an extended trade mission to Siberia.

Author:  Bamba [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
BBC: £350m Brexit claim was 'too low', says Boris Johnson

Oh, please kindly go on an extended trade mission to Siberia.


I did like this excellent burn from Labour on the subject: "Our NHS is in the middle of a winter crisis and Boris Johnson's solution is to return to the scene of his previous crimes and promise ever larger slices of pie in the sky."

Author:  Kern [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Ian Dunt's short piece on the government's options and the current situation is a quick and useful read. Not particularly hopeful, uplifting, or likely to increase your confidence in Her Majesty's Government, but we can't have everything.

Author:  Squirt [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I really can't see how this is going to end up with anything other than a shambling, fudged, "In-the-EU-in-all-but-name" compromise agreement that will make everyone involved angry, whilst giving precisely zero benefits.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Jan 29, 2018 22:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardell ... uk-will-be

Quote:
The government's new analysis of the impact of Brexit says the UK would be worse off outside the European Union under every scenario modelled, BuzzFeed News can reveal.

The assessment, which is titled “EU Exit Analysis – Cross Whitehall Briefing” and dated January 2018, looked at three of the most plausible Brexit scenarios based on existing EU arrangements.

Under a comprehensive free trade agreement with the EU, UK growth would be 5% lower over the next 15 years compared to current forecasts, according to the analysis.

The "no deal" scenario, which would see the UK revert to World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, would reduce growth by 8% over that period. The softest Brexit option of continued single-market access through membership of the European Economic Area would, in the longer term, still lower growth by 2%.

These calculations do not take into account any short-term hits to the economy from Brexit, such as the cost of adjusting the economy to new customs arrangements.

The assessment seen by BuzzFeed News is being kept tightly guarded inside government. It was prepared by officials across Whitehall for the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU), and is reportedly being presented to key ministers in one-to-one meetings this week ahead of discussion at the Brexit cabinet subcommittee next week.

Asked why the prime minister was not making the analysis public, a DExEU source told BuzzFeed News: "Because it's embarrassing."


Author:  Kern [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

'See, it's not a 25% loss. Stop spreading your PROJECT FEAR. No turning back'

Author:  MaliA [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Well. This is awkward for everyone.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

MaliA wrote:
Well. This is awkward for everyone.


I know. My MP hasn't replied to my most recent letter on this yet and I hate these things being superseded by events.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

What's frustrating is that this is the ideal opportunity for Mr Corbyn to demonstrate to his critics at he isn't a dogmatic ideologue and can turn round and say 'this is great in theory, but as it can't work without harming people, let's not do this', and yet he's still ruling out even just staying in the single market/customs union.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Be reassured by this clear answer in the Commons yesterday, which I'm quoting in full:

Quote:
Paul Masterton (East Renfrewshire) (Con)

The British people are, in the main, not ideological but practical and pragmatic. They simply want Brexit to work. Will the Minister assure me that the Government’s policy will be dictated not by fringe groups, either in this place or outside it, but by the national interest?

Mr Walker (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union)
  
Yes.

Hansard link

Rest easy.

Author:  MaliA [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
What's frustrating is that this is the ideal opportunity for Mr Corbyn to demonstrate to his critics at he isn't a dogmatic ideologue and can turn round and say 'this is great in theory, but as it can't work without harming people, let's not do this', and yet he's still ruling out even just staying in the single market/customs union.



https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/stat ... 7660695552



Author:  Kern [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Heh.

Skimming a piece in the Guardian about Mary Beard and came across possibly the best description of those obsessed with leave:

Quote:
The referendum then, should not be treated as the final word, she said, but as a straw vote. “Sure, say we want to leave, but you can only in the end say we are going to leave when we know what it means. Otherwise,” she said, “it’s just wanking in the dark."

Author:  MaliA [ Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Ace. Although, I just got Beard confused with Berry, which made it odd.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

It seems the very best line May could find was that this is “preliminary” analysis so should be discounted.

https://twitter.com/simon_nixon/status/ ... 2695625728




We’re over a year and a half from the referendum. How long does it take to produce some trustworthy, solid, non-preliminary analysis?

Author:  Kern [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

What's concerning me is that it seems roughly in line with other analyses, such as those produced by the EU, the Bank of England, various thinktanks, and universities. Perhaps I'm limiting myself in what I'm exposing myself to, but if everything is pointing in one direction there's either a heck of a flaw in the underlying assumptions or the destination is clear.

I really would like something as cold and detailed as Ian Dunt's book. The only pro-Brexit stuff I've read tends to be of the unicorns-in-air-castles variety. Wish we could go back to not caring about the intricacies of cross-border aeroplane regulation and suchlike.

Author:  markg [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

None of it matters. People didn't vote to leave the EU on the basis of a hard-headed assessment of the economics and they aren't going to accept not leaving on the basis of that either. Brexiters only really need to point to the referendum result to justify their position.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

The result was 52-48 on a very blunt question. No plan for leaving was ever put forward: people were voting blind. Mrs May could, when she became prime minister, have recognised the massive splits in the country and sought a compromise plan that probably would have satisfied nobody but at least showed a willingness to bring people together, for example leaving the EU but staying in the EEA. Some benefits of membership, some of leaving (eg, not in the Union per se), but more in line with the outcome.

Instead, for reasons of keeping the Conservatives together, she opted for a hardest possible Brexit. It isn't unreasonable to think that such decisions should be made after an examination of all the options, especially when your main criticism of the opposition is they do things out of ideology, not evidence. I also don't think it's wise for Parliament to let the government proceed without a full understanding of the implications and options. It's very concerning when ministers are afraid to show their workings or justify their positions: they should be able to argue for their position based on the merits of the hard Brexit itself, rather having to resort to vague language or muttering about the 'will of the people' (and it's somewhat nauseating to hear Tories rely on the views of Jean-Jacques Rousseau!).

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Good post. Kier Starmer was shit on R4 this am.

Author:  asfish [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Anyone know what they plan to do with passports for the UK?

I've seen the news that we will all get Blue ones back for anything issues after we leave in 2019, although also read there is a chance these could be made in Berlin :D

What happens with current EU passports after we leave though? Mine was renewed last year so is good to 2027. Will I get EU movement for this time or will I have any restrictions that come with our exit in 2019?

Not a big deal but the automatic passport control systems in most major EU airports make travel a lot easier for EU passport holders.

Getting Irish passports for my kids, they can get these no issues as my wife holds one.

Author:  markg [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
The result was 52-48 on a very blunt question. No plan for leaving was ever put forward: people were voting blind. Mrs May could, when she became prime minister, have recognised the massive splits in the country and sought a compromise plan that probably would have satisfied nobody but at least showed a willingness to bring people together, for example leaving the EU but staying in the EEA. Some benefits of membership, some of leaving (eg, not in the Union per se), but more in line with the outcome.

Instead, for reasons of keeping the Conservatives together, she opted for a hardest possible Brexit. It isn't unreasonable to think that such decisions should be made after an examination of all the options, especially when your main criticism of the opposition is they do things out of ideology, not evidence. I also don't think it's wise for Parliament to let the government proceed without a full understanding of the implications and options. It's very concerning when ministers are afraid to show their workings or justify their positions: they should be able to argue for their position based on the merits of the hard Brexit itself, rather having to resort to vague language or muttering about the 'will of the people' (and it's somewhat nauseating to hear Tories rely on the views of Jean-Jacques Rousseau!).
What do you mean that she "opted for the hardest possible Brexit"? As far as I can tell (which is not really very far) she seems to be just bungling her way through from one disaster to the next with no clear plan and hoping that the outcome will be some sort of a fudge.

I'm all for mitigating the disaster that they have wrought but a country is more than an economy and when I think it through I'm coming to believe that outright avoiding Brexit altogether would more damaging than going ahead. The divisions and hatred that these fucking clowns brought to the surface with their idiotic referendum would just get so much worse.

Author:  DavPaz [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

asfish wrote:
Getting Irish passports for my kids, they can get these no issues as my wife holds one.


Unless you travel with the kids without your wife. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions.

When we flew back from New York, the missus was questioned because her ticket was in her maiden name, but her passport was in her married name. It was our honeymoon.

Author:  asfish [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

DavPaz wrote:
asfish wrote:
Getting Irish passports for my kids, they can get these no issues as my wife holds one.


Unless you travel with the kids without your wife. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions.

When we flew back from New York, the missus was questioned because her ticket was in her maiden name, but her passport was in her married name. It was our honeymoon.


We get some questions already, the kids have UK passports, on the application, it asks for parents passports numbers but only UK passports are applicable. So my wife has to take a birth certificate if traveling with them alone in the EU as there is no record aside from this to link her to the kids.

We always travel as a family in the EU so we just all go up together at UK passport control and explain.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

markg wrote:
What do you mean that she "opted for the hardest possible Brexit"?


The logic of her 'red lines' in the Lancaster House speech last year (no single market; no customs union; no role for the ECJ) essentially mean that we have to become a third country.

Quote:
As far as I can tell (which is not really very far) she seems to be just bungling her way through from one disaster to the next with no clear plan and hoping that the outcome will be some sort of a fudge.

Given how much we've already rolled over (remember the 'fight of the summer' that was resolved in two minutes by us saying 'yes'), an extended transition and fudge does feel likely. There's no way we can avoid a hard border with Ireland otherwise. But I have no confidence in their endgame or current approach.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

asfish wrote:
What happens with current EU passports after we leave though? Mine was renewed last year so is good to 2027. Will I get EU movement for this time or will I have any restrictions that come with our exit in 2019?


We get to join the slow queue and enjoy the benefits of being a free nation whilst waiting for hours with the rest of the world.

Quote:
Getting Irish passports for my kids, they can get these no issues as my wife holds one.


I need to finish off gathering documents. Getting a notarised copy of my mother's passport and one of mine is the main delay for me at the moment. But it shouldn't be necessary and I'm disgusted that nobody in Parliament or the media (outside of the odd James O'Brien rant) seem to realise that losing the rights to travel, live, work, love, and study freely across the continent is a massive reduction of our freedom.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

DavPaz wrote:

When we flew back from New York, the missus was questioned because her ticket was in her maiden name, but her passport was in her married name. It was our honeymoon.

Don’t ever do this, everyone else. These days she wouldn’t have gotten on the plane. There’s no “we’re on our honeymoon” pass for having mismatched passenger data.

Author:  devilman [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

markg wrote:

I'm all for mitigating the disaster that they have wrought but a country is more than an economy and when I think it through I'm coming to believe that outright avoiding Brexit altogether would more damaging than going ahead. The divisions and hatred that these fucking clowns brought to the surface with their idiotic referendum would just get so much worse.


I'd naively hoped that by now, more brexiters would have seen the light since the referendum. I've still yet to see a single good reason for leaving whereas the list of potential negatives just pile up. And yet they stubbornly stick to their guns. I'm not sure what would convince them - even if Farage and Boris would to release a statement saying 'look, we were wrong.. Brexit is going to be a disaster', these folk will still blindly go on about the will of the people.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
asfish wrote:
What happens with current EU passports after we leave though? Mine was renewed last year so is good to 2027. Will I get EU movement for this time or will I have any restrictions that come with our exit in 2019?


We get to join the slow queue and enjoy the benefits of being a free nation whilst waiting for hours with the rest of the world.

Quote:
Getting Irish passports for my kids, they can get these no issues as my wife holds one.


I need to finish off gathering documents. Getting a notarised copy of my mother's passport and one of mine is the main delay for me at the moment. But it shouldn't be necessary and I'm disgusted that nobody in Parliament or the media (outside of the odd James O'Brien rant) seem to realise that losing the rights to travel, live, work, love, and study freely across the continent is a massive reduction of our freedom.


2 copies, please, bill me half.

Agree with the rest.

Author:  DavPaz [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
DavPaz wrote:

When we flew back from New York, the missus was questioned because her ticket was in her maiden name, but her passport was in her married name. It was our honeymoon.

Don’t ever do this, everyone else. These days she wouldn’t have gotten on the plane. There’s no “we’re on our honeymoon” pass for having mismatched passenger data.

It took some persuading. Weirdly, we were fine flying out, going through US immigration and leaving the US. It was only returning to the UK that caused a problem. Side note, the US border patrol guy was awesome. The perfect guy to be greeting new arrivals.

Author:  asfish [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
asfish wrote:
What happens with current EU passports after we leave though? Mine was renewed last year so is good to 2027. Will I get EU movement for this time or will I have any restrictions that come with our exit in 2019?


We get to join the slow queue and enjoy the benefits of being a free nation whilst waiting for hours with the rest of the world.

Quote:
Getting Irish passports for my kids, they can get these no issues as my wife holds one.


I need to finish off gathering documents. Getting a notarised copy of my mother's passport and one of mine is the main delay for me at the moment. But it shouldn't be necessary and I'm disgusted that nobody in Parliament or the media (outside of the odd James O'Brien rant) seem to realise that losing the rights to travel, live, work, love, and study freely across the continent is a massive reduction of our freedom.


Looking at it, our kids get an Irish passport no issue, as their mother is a citizen.

Not sure I get one that easily though, I meet some criteria such as over 3 years marriage but not lived there for any length of time.

Author:  Cras [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

DavPaz wrote:
Side note, the US border patrol guy was awesome. The perfect guy to be greeting new arrivals.


The worst border control experience I ever had was Canada. I got the proper third degree, questioning ever place I planned to visit and why I hadn't booked a package tour.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Side note, the US border patrol guy was awesome. The perfect guy to be greeting new arrivals.


The worst border control experience I ever had was Canada. I got the proper third degree, questioning ever place I planned to visit and why I hadn't booked a package tour.


Heh. I once had a tricky conversation trying to convince a Canadian border guy that I didn't particularly want to visit Canada, I just had to change planes there. The particular airport I was in didn't have a transit corridor.

Author:  Squirt [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I once went to Riga in Lativa for a work trip - the passport guy was all smiles and happy and politeness and I went through with my British passport in about 5 secs. My colleague, directly behind me, had a Russian passport and got a VERY different reception from the same chap. Scowls and about 5 mins of very abrupt questions.

Author:  Zardoz [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 13:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Don't expect Japanese border control guards to see the funny side if Cadburys Cream eggs rolls out of your packed shoes in a baggage inspection.

I've never tried to keep a straight face as much as I did then.

Author:  Findus Fop [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 13:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

"In a shoe."

The response Cadbury's never expected.

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 14:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

When me and Mrs Hearthly were returning home from our honeymoon in Florida (this would be September 1998), the guy at the airport (Orlando?) where you put your bags on the conveyor belt and show your tickets asked all the usual questions and there was one about is there anything dangerous in there (or however they phrase the question).

Because I'm an idiot I jokily said, 'Oh just a bomb we've made'.

The chap laughed but then gave me a friendly telling off saying that we could get in trouble for that, and I shouldn't say it again.

Then he let us carry on through boarding and wished us a pleasant flight.

YES OBVIOUSLY I WOULDN'T SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT THESE DAYS, but there was no terrorism in 1998 unless the IRA count.

Author:  DavPaz [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 14:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

It was only funny because you're white ;)

Author:  Cras [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 14:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Pretty sure the IRA count. Also, like, the Unabomber, who tried to smuggle a bomb onto a plane in his luggage, but okay.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 14:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Image

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 14:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
Pretty sure the IRA count.


They blew up me and Mrs Hearthly's favourite pub in Manchester. That's when terrorism got real for us.

(We'd actually been in it the day before, they had a ST:TNG pinball and a Big Breakfast fruit machine downstairs, and a Crystal Maze SWP upstairs. I can't even bear to think of what happened to them.)

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 15:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Hearthly wrote:
Because I'm an idiot I jokily said, 'Oh just a bomb we've made'.
The chap laughed but then gave me a friendly telling off saying that we could get in trouble for that, and I shouldn't say it again.
Then he let us carry on through boarding and wished us a pleasant flight.

Seriously? Well, that doesn't really speak very highly of their security protocols does it?

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Jan 31, 2018 15:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Hearthly wrote:
(We'd actually been in it the day before, they had a ST:TNG pinball ... I can't even bear to think of what happened to them.)

It boldly went where no pinball machine had gone before.

Page 68 of 131 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/