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Taking the Brexit
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479		 Page 56 of 131
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 18:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 7064273921




Sobering watching. We're certainly not getting any sort of Brexit that will satisfy these Leave voters, which kinda makes you wonder what the fucking point is.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 18:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
I just realised we are one week short of six months since the Article 50 notification was issued. In 25% of the precious notice period, we have made pretty much 0% progress in the most crucial negotiations of, I dunno, a decade? Our lifetimes? Somewhere inbetween? Pretty important, anyway. Good job, government. You're nailing this.
Author:  MaliA [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 18:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/921330517064273921

Sobering watching. We're certainly not getting any sort of Brexit that will satisfy Leave voters, which kinda makes you wonder what the fucking point is.


The real punch line is that any deal with the sub continent will be dependent on loosening visas into GB.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 18:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
MaliA wrote:
The real punch line is that any deal with the sub continent will be dependent on loosening visas into GB.

A very large number of Leave voters were sold a very large lie, and they swallowed it whole, and I can't see it ending well when they realise the reality won't be remotely close to what they thought they were getting.
Author:  LewieP [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 18:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
"Being British, it's like being foreign, but better.
Author:  Kern [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 21:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
g) what the hell are we going to eat if we can't import EU food
h) what are we doing about the EU citizens who live here


Paging Jonathan Swift ...
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 21:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
SOYLENT EU IS PEOPLE
SOYLENT EU IS PEOPLE
Author:  Curiosity [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 22:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Lonewolves wrote:
You act like the minimum wage was some kind of panacea. It was a good first step, but we've gone backwards since then.


So you're saying that 'Blairism' made better steps towards helping people and successive Tory governments have been worse for poor people?

So against his hated centrist ways...
Author:  myp [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 22:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Lol, liberals
Author:  Curiosity [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Lonewolves wrote:
Lol, liberals


Are you just attempting to be a cliche?
Author:  myp [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 23:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Hey, Mussolini made the trains run on time
Author:  MaliA [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Good Friday agreement, Human Rights Act, Equality act, FOI act, Surestart, free entry to museum.
Author:  MaliA [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
MaliA wrote:
Good Friday agreement, Human Rights Act, Equality act, FOI act, Surestart, free entry to museum.


Romanes eunt domus
Author:  Cras [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 18:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Holy shit. Researcher investigates to find out the only country on the face of the earth that actually trades solely under WTO rules.

https://medium.com/@MrWeeble/who-actual ... 6127ce33c6
Author:  Curiosity [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Stop talking down the country, Cras!
Author:  MaliA [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


Such a traitor!
Author:  Curiosity [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


Such a traitor!


He's almost as bad as Tony Blair
Author:  Cras [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


I happen to really like Mauritania.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Cras wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


I happen to really like Mauritania.

Because of the slavery? It's the slavery, isn't it.
Author:  MaliA [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


I happen to really like Mauritania.

Because of the slavery? It's the slavery, isn't it.


Bipedal Work Units is the preferred term, you monster.
Author:  Cras [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Complain about minimum wage now, fuckers
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
We're going to incentivise vital economic growth in the gig economy by adopting max-hours zero-pay contracts.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 19:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Brexiteers keep talking about a return to the great glory days of the British Empire, when we made a fortune by transporting slaves across the Atlantic. Maybe that's the key.
Author:  myp [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 20:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


Such a traitor!


He's almost as bad as Tony Blair

Whoa, let's not go that far. Some things we should not joke about.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 20:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Lonewolves wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


Such a traitor!


He's almost as bad as Tony Blair

Whoa, let's not go that far. Some things we should not joke about.


Yup, hard to imagine a *worse* political legacy than Blair’s; universally abhored by all except a few deluded SELs; the blood of hundreds of thousands and lest we forget him and Brown, like modern day grotesque parodies of King Canute, standing on the beach with “no more boom and bust” as the Country was engulfed by the worst Depression since the 30s... good grief. I mean, at least Brown had the excuse of being a bit thick and promoted beyond his abilities?

Honestly, if you started going on about how much the Country supposedly missed Blair in a pub, I reckon there’s a fair chance you’d get decked. The guy is universally just loathed, and for very good, self-evident reasons.
Author:  Curiosity [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Lonewolves wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Stop talking down the country, Cras!


Such a traitor!


He's almost as bad as Tony Blair

Whoa, let's not go that far. Some things we should not joke about.


Iraq War aside, it is amusing that you appear to reserve so much hatred for the PM in your lifetime that had been closest to your own politics.
Author:  myp [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
You would say that, you centrist scum
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
You know who else said he had politics very similar to Blair?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ation.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 78494.html
Author:  Kern [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Cavey wrote:
Yup, hard to imagine a *worse* political legacy than Blair’s.


Eden? Chamberlain? North?
Author:  myp [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
You know who else said he had politics very similar to Blair?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ation.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 78494.html

They're both awful.
Author:  Kern [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
We're going to incentivise vital economic growth in the gig economy by adopting max-hours zero-pay contracts.


Reminds me of the only memorable quip in the first Marx Brothers film, 'the Coconuts':

Quote:
Hammer [Groucho]: Wages? Do you want to be wage slaves? Answer me that!
Bellhops: No.
Hammer: No, of course not. But what makes wage slaves? Wages! I want you to be free.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 21:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Kern wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Yup, hard to imagine a *worse* political legacy than Blair’s.


Eden? Chamberlain? North?


Hah. You wish.
Author:  Squirt [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 16:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Well, if Brexit goes as badly as it has every chance of going ( i.e. talks collapse, No Deal Exit ) I think we'll have a new PM to add to that list.
Author:  TheVision [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 16:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Tony Blair should apologise for everything. That would make it all ok.
Author:  markg [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Squirt wrote:
Well, if Brexit goes as badly as it has every chance of going ( i.e. talks collapse, No Deal Exit ) I think we'll have a new PM to add to that list.

Two of them really. Perhaps even three by the time the whole shitshow is done!
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Personally speaking, I think even Brexit pales to insignificance as compared to hundreds of thousands of people being blown to pieces and/or incinerated in their own homes on the back of lies and an illegal war and their entire country smashed, but perhaps that's just silly old me! (I'd even question whether Brexit is going to be as bad as the 2008-10 Depression, with millions of people losing their jobs and livelihoods, the worst since the '30s, but that's just the insane optimist I am, I guess).

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
]+++ THE TORREES WOULD'VE DONE THE SAME!!!111 etc.


Man, I miss Tony Blair. :roll:
Author:  myp [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Didn't the Tories support the Iraq war anyway?
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Lonewolves wrote:
Didn't the Tories support the Iraq war anyway?


Based on what they were told, yes.
But irrespective, and as I keep saying, the buck stops with whoever's in charge and has to make the call. "the other guy would've done the same/the other guy agreed with me at the time" is no defence, either morally or legally.
Author:  LewieP [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Hey Cavey would you be willing to make up the 50% drop in income I've experienced since the referendum?
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
LewieP wrote:
Hey Cavey would you be willing to make up the 50% drop in income I've experienced since the referendum?


Of course not and I am sorry to hear it, genuinely. I was 100% anti Brexit and still am?
Author:  LewieP [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
OK I'll just forward that request to our incompetent government.
Author:  Cras [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 17:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Unemployment was higher under both the mid-80s government under Labour and the mid-90s government under the Tories than it was in 2008-10 and the aftermath.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Cras wrote:
Unemployment was higher under both the mid-80s government under Labour and the mid-90s government under the Tories than it was in 2008-10 and the aftermath.


... Seriously?

Take a look at this.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/unem ... ps-below-7

The number of people working in the UK fell by almost 1,000,000 people between 2008 and 2009. If you reckon that's no big deal then there's not much I can say, but pretty hard luck on a great many hardworking people trying to support their families, keep their houses and roof over heads.

Interesting also to note that the total number of people working in the UK has rocketed from c.28,700,000 in 2009 and 2010, to 32,100,000 now - an increase of three and a half million people. Still, it's all ratshit after 7 years, it's all zero hours etc etc

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... ket/latest

(Also please note Labour were not in power at any time in the 80s, nor indeed for most of the 90s)
Author:  Cras [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 18:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
When on earth did I say it wasn't a big deal? I merely said that unemployment was higher in the eighties and nineties (apologies, you're correct, both times under Tory governments) than during or after the 2008-10 recession. So the crash was not the worst since the great depression in the 30s, it was the worst since most of the time the Tories were in power in the 80s and 90s.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Cras wrote:
So the crash was not the worst since the great depression in the 30s, it was the worst since most of the time the Tories were in power in the 80s and 90s.


Nope, wrong again.

Quote:
The recession lasted for five quarters and was the deepest UK recession since the war.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... ed_Kingdom

"Deepest UK recession since World War 2" doesn't sound too clever to me, but perhaps they're not including zero hours contracts.
The outcome of Brexit is unknown, but it would have to be really, really bad to equal Labour's 2008-2010 record, after having been in government for 11 years. Man, I miss Tony Blair.
Author:  GazChap [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 18:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Cavey wrote:
"Deepest UK recession since World War 2" doesn't sound too clever to me, but perhaps they're not including zero hours contracts.

Aren't you agreeing with Cras, there? Cras was saying that the 2008 recession wasn't as bad as the Great Depression, and you've just agreed with him I think.
Author:  myp [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Cavey wrote:
Cras wrote:
So the crash was not the worst since the great depression in the 30s, it was the worst since most of the time the Tories were in power in the 80s and 90s.


Nope, wrong again.

Quote:
The recession lasted for five quarters and was the deepest UK recession since the war.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... ed_Kingdom

"Deepest UK recession since World War 2" doesn't sound too clever to me, but perhaps they're not including zero hours contracts.
The outcome of Brexit is unknown, but it would have to be really, really bad to equal Labour's 2008-2010 record, after having been in government for 11 years. Man, I miss Tony Blair.

He said unemployment was higher during the Tory-led recessions, not anything about economic growth itself.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 18:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
GazChap wrote:
Cavey wrote:
"Deepest UK recession since World War 2" doesn't sound too clever to me, but perhaps they're not including zero hours contracts.

Aren't you agreeing with Cras, there? Cras was saying that the 2008 recession wasn't as bad as the Great Depression, and you've just agreed with him I think.


I'm not entirely sure what he's saying tbh, something along the lines of it not being as bad as the early 80s recession (as a direct consequence of the 79 Labour government) or the early 90s recession (Lawson Boom, which was down to the Tories). "Only" a million or so people lost their jobs, but of course the damage to the UK economy was immense, and still very much reverberating now. Yes, 3-4 million more people are in work, which is awesome, but there's still a long way to go before the UK economy could be said to be functioning within normal parameters.

Bottom line: it was horrendously bad, and Brexit is going to have to be one hell of a shitshow to get anywhere near it.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 19:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Measurements of the absolute number of people employed is skewed by a growing population.

Image

As a ratio, the "record" employment figures under the current Conservative government look very unremarkable compared to that under Labour in 2000-2008.

Image
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 19:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Measurements of the absolute number of people employed is skewed by a growing population.

Image

As a ratio, the "record" employment figures under the current Conservative government look very unremarkable compared to that under Labour in 2000-2008.

Image


Yeah, except your bottom graph is only up to January 2016, i.e. is nearly 2 years out of date. :roll:
Here, let me help you:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... employment


(Still, I suppose it's better than your top graph, that's nearly a decade out of date)
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