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Taking the Brexit
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com:443/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479
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Author:  Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

In the medium to long term, I now can't see any way out of another disastrous dalliance with Socialism, leaving the country bankrupt (again). It's the only way the up and coming generations are going to learn, just like my parent's generation did in the 70s.

Unfortunately the 2008 Labour Bankruptcy doesn't sufficiently register because Blair's Labour is perceived as 'not being Socialist' (even though it very largely was; just look at how the public sector grew, spending rocketed and personal liberties shrank), and despite the abject, public apologies of both their PM and senior Cabinet, there's always the "it wasn't us Guv, honest" excuse about Banks, Americans, Pixies etc.

So heads up sensible people, make hay whilst you still can. Winter is coming!

Author:  Pundabaya [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Absolutely, socialist policies totally caused the financial crash. Also the world is flat, the Queen is a lizard person, 9/11 was an inside job and Big Pharma discovered the cure for cancer in 1979, but refuses to release it because they make more money treating cancer victims.

On the other hand, maybe Cavey is a Tory fuckhead who lives inside his own head?

Bring on socialism, its got to be better than this bunch of cretins.

Author:  Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

"Tory fuckhead" has a certain ring to it! :metul:

:D

You're beyond help, Pundy, but I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D

Author:  MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris

Author:  Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris


Awesome! That's quite an upgrade :)

Author:  Curiosity [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris


Awesome! That's quite an upgrade :)


Oh, he's not that bad ;)

Author:  MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris


Awesome! That's quite an upgrade :)


Oh, he's not that bad ;)


He's an AI we wrote. We didn't have a lot to go on, so we mostly reused code from autonomous forlkift truck.

Author:  LewieP [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Spending on social housing, public services and public infrastructure are reasonable plans, but I think the biggest challenge for a Corbyn led government inheriting a post-brexit mess would be building strong international trade links.

I'm confident in his ability to lead with common sense, but it'll be a steep challenge.

Author:  Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

:DD

Author:  Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

We're going to become an agrarian paradise! To the fields, citizens!

Author:  markg [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Bloke's a genius. We can just grown more food and we can make everything else here too. We don't need anyone else. Why did nobody think of this before? It's all just so easy and obvious. Brexit's going to be fucking amazing!

Author:  Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I'm pretty sure feudalism was an idea brought across the channel by those filthy Normans.

Author:  Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Today, the House of Commons holds the second reading of the Nuclear Safeguards Bill, written to cover some of the holes left in the regulation of nuclear material caused by the public's vote to leave Euratom (did you not notice that question on the ballot paper last June?). The official parliamentary research briefing states that the bill is an empthy shell, waiting to be filled up by yet more secondary legislation, because, hey, why should MPs and peers bother themselves with the complexities of this issue.

Quote:
This Bill would allow the Government to make regulations for, and implement international agreements in relation to, nuclear safeguarding. This is required once the UK leaves Euratom. However, the Bill does not set out what the regulations will look like, but does include a duty to consult at least the UK’s Office for Nuclear Regulation.

Author:  BikNorton [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts?

I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 15:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Grayling in Feb 2016 ("of course we'll have free trade, it'll be easy to negotiate that") versus Grayling this week ("of course the negotiations are difficult") is fucking depressing.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/9 ... 1063301120



Author:  Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 15:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

BikNorton wrote:
More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts?

I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry.


Ask the Wetherspoons guy. As a prominent Leave campaigner, he'll have the answers.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 18:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Hot off the heels of this news of meltdown of the British economy, the FTSE100 and FTSE250 fell off the edge of a cliff by 0.1% and 0.2% respectively today. :(

Author:  romanista [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

BikNorton wrote:
More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts?
I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry.


Would access to German malts not ruin what's left of the british beer industry?

Anyway.. local craft beers first!

Author:  Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

It's all about the American hops these days.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

And what's Her Majesty's Government's policy on preparing for the 'no deal' scenario? Optimism, apparently.

Home Office questions, yesterday

Quote:
Ben Bradshaw:
...
Given all the other demands on his budget that we have heard about today, is it not grossly irresponsible for some of his Cabinet colleagues to be running around talking up the prospects of a no deal, instead of being level with the public about any trade-offs that will inevitably result in a Brexit deal?

Brandon Lewis:

I am optimistic that we will get a good deal both for the UK and for our partners in Europe, so that we can work together as forward-looking partners, but we are also actively monitoring work flows at the border to ensure that we have sufficient resources in place to meet demand. As my colleagues across the Government and in the Cabinet have said, it is absolutely right that we do plan for all eventualities.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

And Mr Lewis's answer to the next question is even clearer:

Quote:
I appreciate my hon. Friend’s comments about my demeanour, and I will always try to remain optimistic and happy about the fact that we are focused on ensuring that we keep our borders secure and that we are ready for any outcome at the end of the negotiations.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I wonder if May has prepared her three envelopes yet.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I wonder if May has prepared her three envelopes yet.


:DD

What if she sent the wrong ones to the submarines?

Author:  Squirt [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

So, what is everyone's predictions for the actual state of Brexit come March 2019? I'm teetering between "Transition deal that basically maintains the status quo for another two years" and "Tory leadership coup, collapse of negotiations and hard, no deal Brexit"

Author:  Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I'm edging towards a continually-renewed limited transition period where we get blue passports and fuck all else that's different but right now all that I'm certain of is that nobody will take responsibility for any of what happens. The only appeal of Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister in the near future is that it would totally destroy his reputation forever.

Author:  Cavey [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I'm actually fairly optimistic now that this will be a good old fashioned EU fudge... measurably worse in every single way than if we'd stayed in of course, but not catastrophically so, and at least some kind of basis whereby the movers and shakers - the business men and women of the UK - can move forwards and operate, likely with some kind of renewing "transition period" possibly lasting a decade or so, as Kern mentions.

At least Juncker is making the right sorts of noises now; the Spanish crisis looms large, and the EU can no longer afford an outright schism with Britain.

Author:  Cras [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 13:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Any transition period that includes current rules on freedom of movement, EU judicial oversight, etc will not appease the right - and appeasing the right was the only possible reason for the government to go along with the whole thing in the first place.
So the government may as well at this point take every step they can towards revoking A50 and cancelling the whole sorry shitshow.

Author:  MaliA [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 13:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
Any transition period that includes current rules on freedom of movement, EU judicial oversight, etc will not appease the right - and appeasing the right was the only possible reason for the government to go along with the whole thing in the first place.
So the government may as well at this point take every step they can towards revoking A50 and cancelling the whole sorry shitshow.


Hi! Alastair!

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nt-be-done

Author:  Kern [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Withdrawal bill delayed again. I'm torn between thinking this was their game plan all along and hold back before coming out with their preferred version containing just enough sweetners for the Tory rebels, and thinking that it's another example of the current government's general incompetence and confusion (or, as we call it, Brexit).

Author:  Findus Fop [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/921099927958192128

Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Still doing a better job than the Tories.

Author:  MaliA [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/statu ... 1692205057



Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Ooohhh is this the multi-department report about the scale of the disaster that the government won't release?

Author:  Cras [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

No, according to the thread it's dated before the referendum, and it's specific to No Deal. It's pretty brutal though.

Author:  Kern [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

'Project Fear'.
'Experts'
'Take back Control'

Etc etc etc

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

We need a second referendum, now that all the facts are laid bare.

*sobs into a crumpled union jack*

Author:  Kern [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Can't undo the Will of the People (TM).

Brexit policy, yesterday:

Image

Author:  Mr Russell [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Got this as en email today.
Quote:
Dear Russell Codd,

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Put the final Brexit deal to a referendum with revoking Article 50 as an option.”.

Government responded:

On 23 June 2016 the British people voted to leave the European Union. The UK Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will of the people and so there will be no second referendum.

On 23 June 2016 the British people voted to leave the European Union. The referendum was the largest democratic mandate in UK political history. In the 2017 General Election more than 85% of people voted for parties committed to respecting that result.

There must be no attempts to remain inside the European Union, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door, and no second referendum. The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the Government to make sure we do just that. Rather than second guess that decision, the challenge now is to make a success of it - not just for those who voted leave but for every citizen of the United Kingdom, bringing together everyone in a balanced approach that respects the decision to leave the political structure of the EU but builds a strong relationship between the UK and the EU as neighbours, allies and partners.

Since the referendum, the whole of Government has undertaken a huge work programme to make sure that we begin negotiations from a position of strength. This has included analysis of over 50 sectors of the economy. Ministers have also travelled up and down the country to listen to the hopes and concerns of businesses, civil society and the general public.

Parliament passed an Act with a clear majority giving the Prime Minister the power to trigger Article 50, which she did on 29 March in a letter to the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk.

In her speech in Florence on Friday 22 September, the Prime Minister set out a creative and pragmatic approach to securing a new, deep and special partnership with the European Union. The speech set the tone for the fourth and fifth rounds of negotiation talks on Monday 25 September and Tuesday 10 October . The talks were robust, constructive and have given us a lot to be positive about.

The people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union, but we are not leaving Europe. We want a deep and special partnership with the EU. We aim to get the right deal abroad and the right deal for people here at home. We will deliver a country that is stronger, fairer, more united and more outward-looking than ever before.

As a matter of firm policy, our notification will not be withdrawn for the simple reason that the majority of the British people voted to leave. We are determined to see that instruction through and now look forward to forging a new relationship with the European Union.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived ... sponse=yes

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: #petitions-committee">https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

Author:  Grim... [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
Can't undo the Will of the People (TM).

Well that's fine, we'll stick with the result of the 1975 referendum.

Author:  Kern [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Jokes aside, whilst I'm the kind of cynic who would probably pour a good glass of port and watch Rome burn, the whole Brexit disaster, coupled with the Wacky World of Mr Trump is getting me down a lot. I've more or less given up trying to contact my MP because it's clear from earlier correspondences that she's going to tow the Tory line come hell or high water despite, I think, privately agreeing that it's a farce. I find the main Leavers' inability to argue their case without resorting to bland reassurances they can't back up extremely dispiriting, and the general lack of planning despairing. I find people like Sir Keir Stamner and Hilary Benn on the ball, but Mr Corbyn is still on the fence about this and it's frustrating to have this lack of opposition at the highest level.

I think we've passed Poll Tax now and are approaching Suez on our political disaster roadtrip.

I'm listening to less Radio 4 news now just to keep my sanity in check, preferring the calming tones of the Third or my newly-discovered JazzFM (not on FM) and sometimes would like to turn the news off for good and just read about the 1860s but that's poor citizenship.

Rant over; feel cleansed. Happy weekend everyone.

Author:  Kern [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
Can't undo the Will of the People (TM).

Well that's fine, we'll stick with the result of the 1975 referendum.


I mean, what's the point in regular elections?

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
turn the news off for good


Nearly there, mate. If I didn't have the kid's future to worry about, I'd have my head buried up to the neck in the blissful sands of ignorance.

Author:  LewieP [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I didn't have an immediate plans to do so, but I am pretty certain I won't ever have kids now. I'd feel that bringing new life into this world would be a cruel act.

Author:  markg [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Well if only complete arseholes are the ones who are left having kids then we're definitely fucked.

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

markg wrote:
Well if only complete arseholes are the ones who are left having kids then we're definitely fucked.

Ah, crap. Sorry.

Author:  MaliA [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

They'd be born into a world in which commercial spaceflight and trips around the moon are a real possibility. They'd get to watch Blade Runner 2049 for the first time, weep at Faure's requiem, marvel at the painings of Lowry. They'd have the joy of carol singing, the excitement of riding a bike for the first time, first love, 8th grade piano, first kiss at the mall.

Or they'd make iphones.

Author:  Kern [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Mr Russell wrote:
Got this as en email today.


Of the many things that grate me about that message ('no back door' -oooo matron!) is that it completely misses the point of the petition. The referendum wasn't on the final deal, it was on the principle of the matter. We can agree to go a new restaurant, but if turns out that the menu isn't to our tastes, we don't carry on with it. Had the government said 'this is the plan for life post-EU, yay or nay?', they would be on firmer ground. It's the difference between second and third readings in Parliament: do we like the idea of this Act, followed by do we like the proposed execution?

Author:  Kern [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Also, if I were in power, I wouldn't block off such an obvious emergency exit in case things go awry.

Author:  markg [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I think it's a matter of timing, if there's any hope of reversing it then it will take skill, finesse and perfect judgement of the mood of the nation. But fortunately the Tories are in power and they're excellent at that sort of thing!

Author:  MaliA [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

It's disgusting/hilarious/deeply concerning that the Prime Minister went to Europe to beg for a bone to give her a chance of holding on to her job.

Lord M was good on R4 this morning, and was talking up a Labour win at next election. Worth a listen. I like him.

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