Not sure why you feel a reasonable alternative is required for people to vote against something - given the topic of this thread!
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| Taking the Brexit https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479 |
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I think I might have to start reading the Daily Mail and the Express just to remind myself that this is a good idea and things are going brilliantly. What I find so frustrating is that, as was once said about the poll tax, it appears that so many otherwise intelligent people seem hell-bent on advocating something ridiculously stupid. At some point the mainstream public (ie - those who were quite happy living their lives without caring about the EU or tariffs or EFTA or Jean-Claude Juncker) will start to suffer and turn against the incumbents. But it takes time, and probably requires a capable opposition leader to channel their discontent. |
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| Author: | Bobbyaro [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Not sure why you feel a reasonable alternative is required for people to vote against something - given the topic of this thread!
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Oh, yes. I forgot Mr Corbyn won the election.  I'm not convinced he'd want to back out of this. I can understand why Sir Keir is currently charmingly ambivalent, doing enough to keep the remainers on side without pushing around Labour voters who opted for leave, but I don't think the leader is displaying anything other than his deeply held political beliefs. What I want to avoid is a whole 'stabbed in the back' myth developing. People should feel that the decision to end this nonsense comes from them, rather than the 'slimy European elites'. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 13:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Fun (YMMV) stuff on Twitter today regarding the Parliament Act. The Parliament Act allows the government to force through a bill after it has been rejected twice by the lords in two separate sessions. Normally this means a year's delay, as a session of parliament is a year. However, after the election, May extended the current session to two years to avoid there being a vote on the Queen's speech, so if they want to use the parliament act to force through a withdrawal bill rejected by the Lords, it'll take two years instead of just one. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Ah, the joys of our constitution! That's made me realise that I've always interpreted 'session' as 'year' when thinking about the Parliament Acts. The downside is that if the bill doesn't pass and the EU don't agree to extra time we'll be even more fucked in 2019 than we currently will be. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Kern wrote: Ah, the joys of our constitution! That's made me realise that I've always interpreted 'session' as 'year' when thinking about the Parliament Acts. The downside is that if the bill doesn't pass and the EU don't agree to extra time we'll be even more fucked in 2019 than we currently will be. Currently, we're just dropping into the abyss, aren't we? No 'transition phase' has been agreed. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
For avoidance of doubt, I think the bill is a dog's breakfast of poorly thought through ideas and shows an utter disdain for the role of Parliament. It's important, however, for a reception statute of some form to exist, otherwise we're opening up a whole can of legal worms as nobody would know which rules apply and which don't. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I thought Ministers could just make up their own laws now anyway. |
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| Author: | myp [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 20:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Kern wrote: it appears that so many otherwise intelligent people seem hell-bent on advocating something ridiculously stupid. Ain't that the truth. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
It always feels like we're going round in circles in this thread, and I really can't be arsed to check if I'm repeating myself (or just paraphrasing Ian Dunt or the New European or Richard Gaywood), but I keep on thinking that had Mrs May said on the steps of Downing Street something along the lines of 'we're going to leave the political part of the EU, but given the tightness of the result we're going to work with other parties and our European colleagues seek a settlement that captures a lot of what both sides want then put it to the public for ratification', I probably could have got behind that. But she didn't, and won't, and it's all a shitstorm and I just want to go back to reading about railway trains and the American Civil War and stuff. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 17:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Here's an interesting report on the conclusions reached by a panel of ordinary people at an intensive deliberation event held by UCL's Constitution Unit. |
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| Author: | romanista [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 20:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
romanista wrote: I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england That was a hard thing to read. So much truth |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
He really nailed the thing that bothers me most about us: The superiority complex. |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 23:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
romanista wrote: I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england That's a very good piece, thanks for the link I'd send it to my Brexit supporting/voting in-laws and dad, but it wouldn't change their mind one jot. I've given up arguing with them about it. They wouldn't even read it. And then they'd buy the Telegraph/Mail next day, just as usual. |
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| Author: | romanista [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 23:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
You're welcome. I was actually kind of scared to post it. Even though i regard you guys as my friends. And have been indulging british culture for at least 25 years, i honestly don't know how brexit moves you deep inside... Compared to Brexit, even the Italians ar simple (having lived there for quite some time) |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
You're welcome to come and invade us again. Worked out quite well in the late 17th century. I've subscribed to 'Prospect' for several years and each edition takes about a month to read through its thought-provoking articles. That particular one, however, feels like something I'd read many times from the comment pages of the 'Guardian' or the 'New Statesman'. I note the author himself admits his debt to Orwell's 'Lion and the Unicorn' essay which is probably the best starting point for any discussion of Englishness (and I think this is an English, not British, issue). Brexit is a shitstorm and has revealed the rather nasty subsoil underneath our modern, open, and tolerant gloss. But for all our faults (class; unbalanced wealth structure; povery; Pacer trains), there's a lot of good things that are worth celebrating (eg the NHS; the BBC; beer; the great outdoors). |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
and Kern. But he probably thinks he's Cornish |
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| Author: | Kern [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:04 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cavey wrote: I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man. You like Pacer trains? |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Kern wrote: Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did. Yes. I agree. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
MaliA wrote: Cavey wrote: I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man. You like Pacer trains? Some things are just too ghastly to contemplate or discuss in polite company. 
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
But to be serious, I very much doubt large swathes of the British public are ever going to "love" the EU, especially now more than ever. It's about to get very messy. |
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| Author: | markg [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Yeah, if anything it'll just get even worse. The Tories are inevitably going to blame them for being unreasonable and spiteful in the negotiations and every bad thing that happens will be cast by their tabloids as being the fault of the EU. |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
... and then the murders began. |
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| Author: | Zardoz [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
It's all about damage reduction now. The glimmer of hope for the future is that a large percent of the Brexit Belmers will be dying out soon making way for our hopefully more rational youth. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Zardoz wrote: It's all about damage reduction now. The glimmer of hope for the future is that a large percent of the Brexit Belmers will be dying out soon making way for our hopefully more rational youth. Who like Corbyn. |
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| Author: | Zardoz [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Me not like Corbyn as much now. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
In the medium to long term, I now can't see any way out of another disastrous dalliance with Socialism, leaving the country bankrupt (again). It's the only way the up and coming generations are going to learn, just like my parent's generation did in the 70s. Unfortunately the 2008 Labour Bankruptcy doesn't sufficiently register because Blair's Labour is perceived as 'not being Socialist' (even though it very largely was; just look at how the public sector grew, spending rocketed and personal liberties shrank), and despite the abject, public apologies of both their PM and senior Cabinet, there's always the "it wasn't us Guv, honest" excuse about Banks, Americans, Pixies etc. So heads up sensible people, make hay whilst you still can. Winter is coming! |
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| Author: | Pundabaya [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Absolutely, socialist policies totally caused the financial crash. Also the world is flat, the Queen is a lizard person, 9/11 was an inside job and Big Pharma discovered the cure for cancer in 1979, but refuses to release it because they make more money treating cancer victims. On the other hand, maybe Cavey is a Tory fuckhead who lives inside his own head? Bring on socialism, its got to be better than this bunch of cretins. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
"Tory fuckhead" has a certain ring to it!  You're beyond help, Pundy, but I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers.
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| Author: | MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cavey wrote: I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
MaliA wrote: Cavey wrote: I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris Awesome! That's quite an upgrade
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cavey wrote: MaliA wrote: Cavey wrote: I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris Awesome! That's quite an upgrade Oh, he's not that bad
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| Author: | MaliA [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Curiosity wrote: Cavey wrote: MaliA wrote: Cavey wrote: I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris Awesome! That's quite an upgrade Oh, he's not that bad He's an AI we wrote. We didn't have a lot to go on, so we mostly reused code from autonomous forlkift truck. |
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| Author: | LewieP [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Spending on social housing, public services and public infrastructure are reasonable plans, but I think the biggest challenge for a Corbyn led government inheriting a post-brexit mess would be building strong international trade links. I'm confident in his ability to lead with common sense, but it'll be a steep challenge. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:47 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
We're going to become an agrarian paradise! To the fields, citizens! |
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| Author: | markg [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Bloke's a genius. We can just grown more food and we can make everything else here too. We don't need anyone else. Why did nobody think of this before? It's all just so easy and obvious. Brexit's going to be fucking amazing! |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I'm pretty sure feudalism was an idea brought across the channel by those filthy Normans. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:57 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Today, the House of Commons holds the second reading of the Nuclear Safeguards Bill, written to cover some of the holes left in the regulation of nuclear material caused by the public's vote to leave Euratom (did you not notice that question on the ballot paper last June?). The official parliamentary research briefing states that the bill is an empthy shell, waiting to be filled up by yet more secondary legislation, because, hey, why should MPs and peers bother themselves with the complexities of this issue. Quote: This Bill would allow the Government to make regulations for, and implement international agreements in relation to, nuclear safeguarding. This is required once the UK leaves Euratom. However, the Bill does not set out what the regulations will look like, but does include a duty to consult at least the UK’s Office for Nuclear Regulation.
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| Author: | BikNorton [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts? I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 15:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Grayling in Feb 2016 ("of course we'll have free trade, it'll be easy to negotiate that") versus Grayling this week ("of course the negotiations are difficult") is fucking depressing. https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/9 ... 1063301120
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 15:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
BikNorton wrote: More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts? I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry. Ask the Wetherspoons guy. As a prominent Leave campaigner, he'll have the answers. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 18:04 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Hot off the heels of this news of meltdown of the British economy, the FTSE100 and FTSE250 fell off the edge of a cliff by 0.1% and 0.2% respectively today. 
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| Author: | romanista [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
BikNorton wrote: More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts? I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry. Would access to German malts not ruin what's left of the british beer industry? Anyway.. local craft beers first! |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
It's all about the American hops these days. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
And what's Her Majesty's Government's policy on preparing for the 'no deal' scenario? Optimism, apparently. Home Office questions, yesterday Quote: Ben Bradshaw:
... Given all the other demands on his budget that we have heard about today, is it not grossly irresponsible for some of his Cabinet colleagues to be running around talking up the prospects of a no deal, instead of being level with the public about any trade-offs that will inevitably result in a Brexit deal? Brandon Lewis: I am optimistic that we will get a good deal both for the UK and for our partners in Europe, so that we can work together as forward-looking partners, but we are also actively monitoring work flows at the border to ensure that we have sufficient resources in place to meet demand. As my colleagues across the Government and in the Cabinet have said, it is absolutely right that we do plan for all eventualities. |
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