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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:09 
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Sleepyhead

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MaliA wrote:
It'd be really interesting to see what happens if the Brexit does happen. How it would all unravel.


It'd massively fuck over Lloyd's (of London) where I do all my work. So I am against it.

Though obviously we get, like, two years to sort out all the shit. It'd just be an annoying two years.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:58 
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Not sure that 'Vote Remain or the bankers get it' is going to be a winning slogan. But then, neither is a campaign fronted by Messers Farage and Galloway.

Quote:
Though obviously we get, like, two years to sort out all the shit. It'd just be an annoying two years.


I'm not certain the other EU countries will be generous with their terms , but an aggressive deal might end up hurting everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:15 
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Heh. The eloquent Kate Hoey (who should be leading the leave camp) just noted on the Marr Show that the vote falls after the group stages of Euro 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:40 
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It'd be awful. Yes. But interesting to see how it would all pan out.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:43 
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We were talking about this last night. Jokingly, could England be disqualified if we're no longer in the EU, but also will it swing some voters if they've been knocked out (or are still in).


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:19 
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I really hope we get plenty of pity points at Eurovision this year.

And I've just realised I'll be in Berlin that night so will be able to do my bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:27 
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... t-campaign

Sterling down 1.1%, sharpest drop in a year. The economic benefits of Brexit are shaping up nicely!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:31 
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Also Zac Goldsmith will campaign for Brexit. I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe, taking advantage of visaless migration [0]. I look forward to heckling his supporters with this next time I see them handing out leaflets.

[0] Along my row of desks: Greek, me, French, Irish, Italian. Behind me: Polish, Czech, Romanian, and American. 7/9 working here under EU citizenship.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:35 
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I understand Boris going against the EU as a nakedly political move.

Goldsmith is just fucking bonkers. The City is overwhelmingly in favour of EU integration.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:36 
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Gogmagog

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Curiosity wrote:
I understand Boris going against the EU as a nakedly political move.

Goldsmith is just fucking bonkers. The City is overwhelmingly in favour of EU integration.


I agree with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:39 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I Imagine Goldsmith thinks the stance will help him win the Mayoral Election, so his is presumably a political move too?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:40 
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Curiosity wrote:
I understand Boris going against the EU as a nakedly political move.

Goldsmith is just fucking bonkers. The City is overwhelmingly in favour of EU integration.

Don't see the difference, Goldsmith is trying to get elected as mayor isn't he? i.e what Malc just said.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:42 
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markg wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
I understand Boris going against the EU as a nakedly political move.

Goldsmith is just fucking bonkers. The City is overwhelmingly in favour of EU integration.

Don't see the difference, Goldsmith is trying to get elected as mayor isn't he?

Sure, but Boris isn't. Boris is trying to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. It doesn't matter what the London elecotrate thinks of him now; now he has to court the party and the UK-wide electorate.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:47 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Along my row of desks: Greek, me, French, Irish, Italian. Behind me: Polish, Czech, Romanian, and American. 7/9 working here under EU citizenship.


This is the reason I'm hesitant to plump for out. There's a lot I don't like about the EU, but visaless migration is not one of them. Heck, it should be extended to US, Canadians, Kiwis, Ozzies, Indians etc (and not worry about reciprocity either).


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:48 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
markg wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
I understand Boris going against the EU as a nakedly political move.

Goldsmith is just fucking bonkers. The City is overwhelmingly in favour of EU integration.

Don't see the difference, Goldsmith is trying to get elected as mayor isn't he?

Sure, but Boris isn't. Boris is trying to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. It doesn't matter what the London elecotrate thinks of him now; now he has to court the party and the UK-wide electorate.

I know but I was replying to Curiosity's point that he could understand Johnson's position as politically motivated but that Goldsmith was "just fucking bonkers" because The City are in favour of integration. Perhaps mistakenly I took The City to mean all the financial fucknuggets rather the general population of London.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:52 
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Sleepyhead

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markg wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
I understand Boris going against the EU as a nakedly political move.

Goldsmith is just fucking bonkers. The City is overwhelmingly in favour of EU integration.

Don't see the difference, Goldsmith is trying to get elected as mayor isn't he? i.e what Malc just said.


What I mean is:

Boris doesn't really care about London any more, so can lose popularity there if it gains him popularity around the country. I don't think he's too bothered either way about the EU thing, but is playing the longer game of trying to become Prime Minister.

Goldsmith is trying to become Mayor of London, which represents The City amongst other things. The City is strongly pro-EU on the whole, so Goldsmith's stance would appear to set him against the electorate he is trying to court. I would also expect Londoners, being a more metropolitan and diverse bunch, to be more likely to vote IN. Which means if Goldsmith is voting OUT as a political move, it seems to be a stupid one.

Though I may have misread the mood/polling of Londoners as a whole.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:54 
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Curiosity wrote:
Though I may have misread the mood/polling of Londoners as a whole.

Yeah, I was just assuming that this must mean that he's been advised that it'll be a vote winner.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:55 
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[quote="Curiosity"Goldsmith is trying to become Mayor of London, which represents The City amongst other things. The City is strongly pro-EU on the whole, so Goldsmith's stance would appear to set him against the electorate he is trying to court. I would also expect Londoners, being a more metropolitan and diverse bunch, to be more likely to vote IN. Which means if Goldsmith is voting OUT as a political move, it seems to be a stupid one.[/quote]Not just the financial meaning of City, either. Tech is in that bucket too.

Quote:
Though I may have misread the mood/polling of Londoners as a whole.
I wonder if he'll blame ridiculous house prices on immigrants.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:08 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Also Zac Goldsmith will campaign for Brexit. I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe, taking advantage of visaless migration [0]. I look forward to heckling his supporters with this next time I see them handing out leaflets.

[0] Along my row of desks: Greek, me, French, Irish, Italian. Behind me: Polish, Czech, Romanian, and American. 7/9 working here under EU citizenship.

It's incredible that the American is probably more secure that the Irish.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:36 
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DavPaz wrote:
It's incredible that the American is probably more secure that the Irish.


No, because our relationship to Ireland is very different to that with other EU countries. Any Irish citizen resident here has full citizenship rights, up to and including voting in general elections.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:38 
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Kern wrote:
No, because our relationship to Ireland is very different to that with other EU countries. Any Irish citizen resident here has full citizenship rights, up to and including voting in general elections.

True, I'd forgotten that. I weaken my stance to 6/9 (dude.)


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:40 
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Kern wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
It's incredible that the American is probably more secure that the Irish.


No, because our relationship to Ireland is very different to that with other EU countries. Any Irish citizen resident here has full citizenship rights, up to and including voting in general elections.

It's called the Common Travel Area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:42 
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The Ireland Act 1949 states that Ireland is "not a foreign country".


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 13:26 
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Gah, Boris is just so transparent. He'll probably think he felt the hand of history on his shoulder - but it was probably just Simon Cowells' casting agent for the 2021 season of "I'm an X-Factor Brother Get Me Out of Here".

People scoffed when I said June 2016 for the Brexit Ref months ago but hey, what can I say. :D
It's all good; the "nasty" elements of the Tories are peeling away and we're going to be left with the Centrists and Patricians in power. (Plus, we have meaningful and useful changes in the EU, which again people said couldn't happen etc. etc.)

It'll go more or less the same way as the Scottish Ref, 56/44-ish. At the end of the day, too many people with too much to lose (just like then, also), and when push comes to shove, eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 13:31 
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Cavey wrote:
People scoffed when I said June 2016 for the Brexit Ref but hey, what can I say. :D

Stop telling us, start telling Ladbrooks.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 13:32 
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Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
People scoffed when I said June 2016 for the Brexit Ref but hey, what can I say. :D

Stop telling us, start telling Ladbrooks.


Heh. Sadly I don't put my money where my mouth is. :p
It's free consultancy, man. :p

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 14:05 
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Soopah red DS

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Along my row of desks: Greek, me, French, Irish, Italian. Behind me: Polish, Czech, Romanian, and American. 7/9 working here under EU citizenship.

Interestingly (eh?) that's not representative of the most recent year's immigration, though it may be over time - the business section of the Sunday Times (hide it away from where the real debate happens) quoted a net increase of 360,000 over the last year, 201,000 of that was from outside the EU. I doubt that proportion will get the coverage it deserves.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 16:12 
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Cavey wrote:
It's all good; the "nasty" elements of the Tories are peeling away and we're going to be left with the Centrists and Patricians in power. (Plus, we have meaningful and useful changes in the EU, which again people said couldn't happen etc. etc.)?

I genuinely hope you're right about that, Cavey - seeing the right wing of the Tories (which includes Johnson based on his history) marginalised would be quite a positive development for British politics generally. I'll openly admit that I don't like Tory governments, but we're going to have them in a two-party system as a matter of course, so when they do occur I'd rather they weren't switched to nasty mode.

(As for the changes, I'll admit again that I don't like them, and they are not what I'd prefer to see done, but am relieved that they are significantly less unpleasant than some of the ideas floating round last June.)


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 16:58 
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Hunt and Osborne are still both in the 'IN' camp, so I won't be celebrating too wildly.

I think it might be closer than Cavey predicts, but then again his prediction skills have been far better than mine on political matters!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 17:02 
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My mother made the mistake of saying she was in the out camp on the phone the other day. I hope she's happy with a couple of treatises on macroeconomics and sovereignty and the rule of law for Mothers' Day

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 17:02 
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Cras wrote:
My mother made the mistake of saying she was in the out camp on the phone the other day. I hope she's happy with a couple of treatises on macroeconomics and sovereignty and the rule of law for Mothers' Day

LLOL

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:59 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe,


Do you find it very difficult fitting into that environment?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:08 
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Mimi wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe,


Do you find it very difficult fitting into that environment?

Sick burn, yo.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:15 
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Mimi wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe,


Do you find it very difficult fitting into that environment?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:18 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe,


Do you find it very difficult fitting into that environment?

Image

I'm beginning to think you're employed by Google simply to source amusing images...

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:19 
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Google Image Search is just a frantic Gaywood and a load of scanners.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:20 
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Bamba wrote:
Google Image Search is just a frantic Gaywood and a load of scanners.

I won't believe it until he provides images...

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:21 
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Bamba wrote:
a frantic Gaywood

Is there another kind?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:24 
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Gogmagog

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Mimi wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I moved to London to work in an office staffed predominantly by the best and brightest recruited from across Europe,


Do you find it very difficult fitting into that environment?


BOOM!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 13:29 
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Bamba wrote:
Google Image Search is just a frantic Gaywood and a load of scanners.

I could never aspire to be one of the Nine Erics.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:01 
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Bit of change of mind on this now... It is not really in our (contentinental) interest to keep someone about who doesn't want to.. So i really hope it gets at least a clear result, so that it won't come back.. And if britain want to leave i hope You/britain realize it won't be really a nice clean exit as some seem to be suggesting.. britain still will have obligations around refugees, and still will have to fit many requirements to enter the free market.. (see the article floating around about norway...)

But i do hope an think most people here realize that sticking to some old fashioned nationalism and island-patriotism isn't really in the best interest of anybody, and most of the 'idiot-brussels-bureaucrat' stories are spins by either politicians who forgot they themselves agreed with something, or politicians who don't care to look up why a standardization measure was proposed in the first place, or the press looking for a cheap shot...

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:04 
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Nationalism isn't that old fashioned in Britain, actually. Especially in England. It's a relatively new phenomenon


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:07 
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DavPaz wrote:
Nationalism isn't that old fashioned in Britain, actually. Especially in England. It's a relatively new phenomenon


Aye. Most of the rise of English nationalism has been in response to the growth of Scottish, Welsh, and Cornish identity over the last 30 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:11 
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Taking the nationalism point, whilst there are sections of Eurosceptism who approach it from a pretty simple Britain/England contra mundum approach, it's perfectly reasonable to be against the EU without being nationalistic about it. I often cringe when I hear people equating the EU with Europe. One is a political entity, the other is a geographical one.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:36 
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Nice


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:29 
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Hahaha Cornwall. Bless

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 15:09 
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I think I might use this thread to brighten up a seemingly-endless campaign* by sometimes posting unconvincing arguments from both sides, such as this gem from today's 'Oxford Mail':

Quote:
FOREIGN Secretary Philip Hammond said on the news that leaving the EU would be like getting a divorce.But of the 118,140 people who get a divorce in the UK each year, 99 per cent say it is the best thing they have ever done.

Enough said.


*TheVision can keep us updated on how many days we've got left


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 15:12 
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https://twitter.com/scattermoon/status/ ... 0766004227



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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:08 
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Successful immigrant family might or might not have view on Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:10 
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nice infographic

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