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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:54 
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Grim... wrote:
Thanks Cras. And now back to the studio.

After the sinking feeling of despair at reading the spoilers contents in your previous post, this actually made me laugh out loud, so thanks for the comic relief at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:55 
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Grim... wrote:
It can, though - especially as poor people can't afford to do it.

Aaaaaand... back down again.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:24 
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Grim... wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/operation-chaos-whitehalls-secret-no-deal-brexit-plan-leaked-j6ntwvhll

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
BASE SCENARIO

When the UK ceases to be a member of the European Union in October 2019, all rights and reciprocal arrangements with the EU end.

● The UK reverts fully to “third country” status. The relationship between the UK and the European Union as a whole is unsympathetic, with many member states (under pressure from the European Commission) unwilling to engage bilaterally and implementing protections unilaterally, though some member states may be more understanding.

● No bilateral deals have been concluded with individual member states, with the exception of the reciprocal agreement on social security co-ordination with the Republic of Ireland. EU citizens living in the UK can retain broadly all rights and status that they were entitled before the UK’s exit from the EU, at the point of exit.

● Public and business readiness for no-deal will remain at a low level, and will decrease to lower levels, because the absence of a clear decision on the form of EU Exit (customs union, no deal etc) does not provide a concrete situation for third parties to prepare for. Readiness will be further limited by increasing EU Exit fatigue caused by the second extension of article 50.

● Business readiness will not be uniform – in general large businesses that work across sectors are likely to have better developed counting plans than small and medium-size businesses. Business readiness will be compounded by seasonal effects and factors such as warehouse availability.

● Private sector companies’ behaviour will be governed by commercial considerations, unless they are influenced otherwise.

● Her Majesty’s government will act in accordance with the rule of law, including by identifying the powers it is using to take specific actions.

● Risks associated with autumn and winter, such as severe weather, flooding and seasonal flu, could exacerbate any effects and stretch the resources of partners and responders.

KEY PLANNING ASSUMPTIONS

Exit day

For the purpose of freight flow and traffic management, as October 31 is a Thursday, Day 1 of Exit is now on a Friday rather than the weekend, which is not to our advantage. Exit Day may coincide with the half-term holiday, which varies across the UK.

Member states

In a small number of instances where the impacts of Brexit would be felt negatively in the EU as well as in the UK, member states may act in a way that could benefit the UK.

Channel ports

France will impose EU mandatory controls on UK goods on Day 1 of No Deal and has built infrastructure and IT systems to manage and process customs declarations and to support a risk-based control regime. On Day 1 of No Deal, 50%-85% of HGVs travelling via the short straits may not be ready for French customs. The lack of trader readiness combined with limited space in French ports to hold “unready” HGVs could reduce the flow rate to 40%-60% of current levels within one day.

The worst disruption to the short Channel crossings might last 3 months before flow rates rise to about 50%-70% (as more traders get prepared), although disruption could continue much longer. In the event of serious disruption, the French might act to ensure some flow through the short Channel crossings.

Disruption to Channel flow would also cause significant queues in Kent and delays to HGVs attempting to use the routes to travel to France. In a reasonable worst-case scenario, HGVs could face a maximum delay of 1½-2½ days before being able to cross the border. HGVs caught up in congestion in the UK will be unable to return to the EU to collect another load and some logistics firms may decide to avoid the route. Analysis to date has suggested a low risk of significant sustained queues at ports outside Kent that have high volumes of EU traffic, but the Border Delivery Group will continue to work directly with stakeholders at those ports to support planning readiness.

Border checks

UK citizens travelling to and from the EU may be subject to increased immigration checks at border posts. This may lead to passenger delays at St Pancras, Cheriton (Channel tunnel) and Dover, where border controls are juxtaposed. Depending on what plans EU member states put in place to cope with these increased immigration checks, it is likely delays will occur for UK arrivals and departures at EU airports and ports. This could cause some disruption on transport services. Travellers may decide to use alternative routes to complete their journey.

Drugs and disease

i) The Border Delivery Group/Department for Transport planning assumption on reduced flow rates describes a pre-mitigation reasonable worst-case flow rate that could be as low as 40% on Day 1 of No Deal via the short straits [main Channel crossings], with significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies.

Supply chains for medicines and medical products rely heavily on the short straits, which makes them particularly vulnerable to severe delays: three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits. Supply chains are also highly regulated and require transportation that meets strict Good Distribution Practices. This can include limits on transit times and temperature-controlled conditions. While some products can be stockpiled, others cannot because of short shelf lives. It will not be practical to stockpile six months’ supplies. The Department for Health and Social Care is developing a multi-layered approach to mitigate these risks.

ii) Any disruption that reduces, delays or stops the supply of medicines for UK veterinary use would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks, with potential harm to animal health and welfare, the environment and wider food safety and availability, as well as, in the case of zoonotic diseases, posing a risk to human health. Industry stockpiling will not be able to match the 4-12 weeks’ stockpiling that took place in March 2019. Air freight capacity and the special import scheme are not a financially viable way to mitigate risks associated with veterinary medicine availability issues.

Food and water

i) Certain types of fresh food supply will decrease. Critical elements of the food supply chain (such as ingredients, chemicals and packaging) may be in short supply. In combination, these two factors will not cause an overall shortage of food in the UK but will reduce availability and choice and increase the price, which will affect vulnerable groups. The UK growing season will have come to an end, so the agri-food supply chain will be under increased pressure for food retailers. Government will not be able to fully anticipate all effects on the agri-food supply chain. There is a risk that panic buying will disrupt food supplies.

ii) Public water services are likely to remain largely unaffected, thanks to actions now being taken by water companies. The most significant single risk is a failure in the chemicals supply chain. The likelihood of this is considered low, and the impact is likely to be local, affecting only hundreds of thousands of people. Water companies are well prepared for any disruption: they have significant stocks of all critical chemicals, extensive monitoring of their chemicals supply chains (including transport and deliveries) and sharing agreements in place. In the event of a supply chain failure, or the need to respond rapidly to other water supply incidents, urgent action may need to be taken to make sure people continue to have access to clean water.

Law and order

Law enforcement data and information-sharing between the UK and the EU will be disrupted.

Financial services and insurance

Some cross-border UK financial services will be disrupted. A small minority of insurance payments from UK insurers into the EU may be delayed.

Data

The EU will not have made a data decision with regard to the UK before exit. This will disrupt the flow of personal data from the EU, where an alternative legal basis for transfer is not in place. In no-deal, an adequacy assessment could take years.

Fuel

Traffic disruption caused by border delays could affect fuel distribution in the local area, particularly if traffic queues In Kent block the Dartford crossing, which would disrupt fuel supply in London and the southeast. Customer behaviour could lead to shortages in other parts of the country.

Tariffs make UK petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability, but UK government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans. This leads to big financial losses and the closure of two refineries (which are converted to import terminals) with about 2,000 direct job losses. Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions they directly supply. Government analysis of the impact of no-deal on refineries continues.

Northern Ireland

On Day 1 of No Deal, Her Majesty’s government will activate the “no new checks with limited exceptions” model announced on March 13, establishing a legislative framework and essential operations and system on the ground, to avoid an immediate risk of a return to a hard border on the UK side.

The model is likely to prove unsustainable because of economic, legal and biosecurity risks. With the UK becoming a “third [non-EU] country”, the automatic application of EU tariffs and regulatory requirements for goods entering Ireland will severely disrupt trade. The expectation is that some businesses will stop trading or relocate to avoid either paying tariffs that will make them uncompetitive or trading illegally; others will continue to trade but will experience higher costs that may be passed on to consumers. The agri-food sector will be hardest hit, given its reliance on complicated cross-border supply chains and the high tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade.

Disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockades. Price and other differentials are likely to lead to the growth of the illegitimate economy. This will be particularly severe in border communities where criminal and dissident groups already operate with greater freedom. Given the tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade, there will be pressure to agree new arrangements to supersede the Day 1 model within days or weeks.

Energy supplies

Demand for energy will be met, and there will be no disruption to electricity or gas interconnectors. In Northern Ireland there will not be immediate disruption to electricity supply on Day 1. A rapid split of SEM could occur months or years after the EU Exit. In this event there would not be issues about security of supply. However, there will probably be marked price rises for electricity customers (business and domestic), with associated wider economic and political effects. Some participants could exit the market, exacerbating economic and political effects.

Gibraltar

Because of the imposition of checks at its border with Spain (and the knock-on effect of delays from the UK to the EU), Gibraltar will see disruption to the supply of goods (including food and medicines) and to shipments of waste, plus delays of four-plus hours for at least a few months in the movement of frontier workers, residents and tourists across the border.

Prolonged border delays over the longer term are likely to harm Gibraltar’s economy. As on the UK mainland, cross-border services and data flow will be disrupted. Despite the time extension to the UK’s exit from the EU, Gibraltar has still not taken the decisions to invest in contingency infrastructure (such as port adjustments and waste management equipment) and there are still concerns that Gibraltar will not have passed all necessary legislation for no-deal, opening up legal risks mainly for the government of Gibraltar. Gibraltar continues to plan for less significant border delays than in our Yellowhammer scenario. Crown dependencies may be affected by supply chain disruption.

Brits in Europe

i) UK nationals will lose their EU citizenship and can expect to lose associated rights and access to services over time, or be required to access them on a different basis. All member states have now published legislative proposals, but not all have passed legislation to secure all rights for UK nationals.

There is a mixed picture across member states in terms of the level of generosity and detail in the legislation. In some member states, UK nationals need to take action now. Complex administrative procedures within member states, language barriers and uncertainty regarding the UK political situation are contributing to some UK nationals being slow to take action. Demands for help on Her Majesty’s government will increase significantly, including an increase in consular inquiries and more complex and time-consuming consular assistance cases for vulnerable UK nationals.

Cross-government support, including continued close engagement and clear communications from UK government departments and the departmental agencies, will be needed to help manage the demand.

ii) An EU member state would continue to pay a pension it currently pays to a UK national living in the EU.

iii) The commission and individual member states do not agree to extend the current healthcare arrangements for UK state pensioners and tourists beyond October 31, 2019, and refuse offers by the UK to fund treatments. Member states take no further action to guarantee healthcare for UK nationals and treat them in the same way as the other “third country” nationals. UK pensioners, workers, travellers and students will need to access healthcare in different ways, depending on the country. Healthcare systems may require people to demonstrate residency and current or previous employment, to enter a social insurance scheme or to purchase private insurance. Member states should treat people with urgent needs but may require them to pay after the fact. There is a risk of disruption for patients, and a minority could face substantial costs.

Protests and police

Protests and counter-protests will take place across the UK, using up police resources. There may also be a rise in public disorder and community tensions.

Fishing

Up to 282 EU and European Economic Area nations’ fishing vessels could enter illegally or are already fishing in UK waters: up to 129 vessels in English waters, 100 in Scottish waters, 40 in Welsh waters and 13 in Northern Irish waters on Day 1. This is likely to cause anger and frustration in the UK catching sector, which could lead to clashes between fishing vessels and an increase in non-compliance in the domestic fleet.

Competing demands on UK government and maritime departmental agencies and their assets could put enforcement and response capabilities at risk, especially in the event of illegal fishing, border violations (smuggling and illegal migration) and any disorder or criminality arising as a result, eg violent disputes or blockading of ports.

The poor

Low-income groups will be disproportionately affected by rises in the price of food and fuel.

Social care

There is an assumption that there will be no big changes in adult social care on the day after EU Exit. The adult social care market is already fragile because of the declining financial viability of providers.

An increase in inflation after the UK’s EU exit would affect providers of adult social care through increasing staff and supply costs, and might lead to failure within 2-3 months for smaller providers and 4-6 months for larger ones. There are also local risks — transport or staff disruption, severe winter weather or flu — that could exacerbate existing market fragility and that cumulatively could stretch the resources of providers and local authorities.

Intelligence will continue to be gathered to prepare for any effects on the sector, including closure of services and handing-back of contracts that are not part of the normal market function. In addition, by mid-August we will look at the status of preparations in four local authorities identified as concerns.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:28 
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Alternatively (NSFW):
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:43 
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I have a little suggestion...
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:06 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Reminds me of this I saw the other day...

https://twitter.com/HitchinLibrary/stat ... 1308649472




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 22:18 
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Rationing.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 9099432966




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 22:51 
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Yay Bedford!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:43 
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Can you dig it?

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Crikey, that's scary reading. It's somewhat discomforting, to say the least, on how complex and fragile many of the systems we take for granted truly are. It looks like it really wouldn't take much for a whole lot of essential stuff to go to absolute shit for a while, and we (all) as a society just aren't used to dealing with anything more than a trivial inconvenience.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:35 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Isn't the saying something like "society is only 3 meals from anarchy"?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:04 
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Still, "Threads" LARPers will be in for a treat.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:34 
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This is upsetting and embarrassing:
Xenophobic bullying souring lives of east European pupils in UK
Quote:
Eastern European pupils in schools in England and Scotland have experienced increased levels of racism and xenophobia since the Brexit vote, with some accusing their teachers of failing to protect them and even joining in, research claims.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:08 
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Two heads are better than one

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 14:27 
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Drinking red wine and listening to "Remainiacs" on a Eurostar out of Brussels because 'fuck Brexit'. Bliss.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:12 
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Just reading up on the Church House Agreement. Trying to stop no-deal first, rather than a vote of no confidence, is the right approach, and good to Labour working with the other parties now.

My main fear is that talking up an election may make wavering Tories vote for the government in order to save their seats.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:32 
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So the government want to porogue - a right not removed by the Fixed Term Parliament Act. This is not going to be pretty.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:54 
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I must remember not to get tired and emotional before writing a letter to my MP tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:20 
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Stolen from someone on Twitter who appeared in the Google results for the phrase:

"I much preferred the Prorogues when they were singing about Christmas in New York. Very sad to see them meddling in politics."


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:25 
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Heh.
Isn't that song about the conflict between idealism and cold reality?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:20 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Holy shit he’s actually shut parliament, and claimed it isn’t to force through no deal to boot:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49493632

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:26 
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INFINITE POWAH

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What’s even worse is he isn’t even being honest about why he’s doing it

“But the prime minister said it was "completely untrue" to suggest the suspension was motivated by a desire to force through no deal”
Why else are you doing it you utter cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:44 
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Noob as of 6/8/10

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That's what this mentor, Donald Trump, would do.

Just lie as brazenly as possible, until they string you up from a lamp post.

It'd be nice if the queen just told him to fuck off and set the corgies on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 13:15 
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Warhead wrote:
That's what this mentor, Donald Trump, would do.

Just lie as brazenly as possible, until they string you up from a lamp post.

It'd be nice if the queen just told him to fuck off and set the corgies on him.

Ha ha, fucking no chance. They're all part of the same set of complete arseholes that got us into this mess. Fuck the lot of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 14:02 
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Bamba wrote:
Stolen from someone on Twitter who appeared in the Google results for the phrase:

"I much preferred the Prorogues when they were singing about Christmas in New York. Very sad to see them meddling in politics."


When I see the word prorogue, I read it as 'pro rogue' which sounds like what Boris had as his job title on his business cards before becoming PM.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 15:20 
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Now that the order's been made, I'm not sure what constitutionally can be done to stop it. A "humble address" might work, but feels dubious as it's a perogative power. MPs could swipe the power away from the executive if they could get the time to do so in the limited days remaining, but I'd rather that time were spent protecting us against no-deal and could not be retrospective. They'd also have to suspend the Commons rule on seeking "Queen's Consent" on bills affective preogative powers or interests as I doubt the government would advise for its granting.

Still, the volume of anger is reassuring. All to play for.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 16:17 
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VONC or similar rumblings, and a General Election scheduled for early October seems plausible?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 16:23 
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Or, re introduce WA in new session?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 16:41 
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MaliA wrote:
Or, re introduce WA in new session?


Yep, can be brought back in a new session. But if the EU are unwilling to make even cosmetic changes, he'll look even more of a liar if he starts supporting something he's spent much of the year opposing.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 17:19 
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Not my best work, but felt good.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Quote:
Dear MP,

I am disgusted about the Prime Minister's move to prorogue Parliament for most of September and October.

I know that you, like me, are against no-deal Brexit and well aware of the economic, social, and cultural collapse that would result, even if we may disagree about the best way to prevent it.

Parliament is central to our constitution. It is unacceptable that it is suspended whilst the risk of a no-deal Brexit remains. Moreover, any new withdrawal agreement or alternative resolution to the current Brexit crisis cannot be sufficiently debated in the time when Parliament does return. The only reason I can see for the government’s action is to avoid scrutiny and debate.

Unfortunately, I cannot see a constitutional way to prevent this prorogation, reducing the options to avert a no-deal. As my MP, I would like to know your thoughts both on the government’s actions today and what you intend to do prevent no-deal in the now-limited time available.

Hugs, etc,

K.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 17:23 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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I do think that "Proroguers" makes a good name for one of the sides in the upcoming Civil War. Any suggestions for the other?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 17:29 
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Gogmagog

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Ta. Email sent

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 19:40 
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MrChris wrote:
What’s even worse is he isn’t even being honest about why he’s doing it

“But the prime minister said it was "completely untrue" to suggest the suspension was motivated by a desire to force through no deal”
Why else are you doing it you utter cunt.

I apologise for my stupidity, but what reason has he actually given?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 19:45 
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The argument is that as a new goverment they want to have a Queen's Speech to set out the new agenda, and so they need a new session of Parliament. The problem is that they've requested a far longer length of time than is usual in these cases, and whilst Parliament is usually in recess for a few weeks of the conference season, there were moves to cancel this. In short, they're reducing the available number of days Parliament could sit if it chose.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:48 
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Kern wrote:
The argument is that as a new goverment they want to have a Queen's Speech to set out the new agenda, and so they need a new session of Parliament. The problem is that they've requested a far longer length of time than is usual in these cases, and whilst Parliament is usually in recess for a few weeks of the conference season, there were moves to cancel this. In short, they're reducing the available number of days Parliament could sit if it chose.

Thanks Kern, I think that's what I don't get. Surely he's had most of summer to sort this out. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:20 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Precisely. And he is getting worried that crashing out with no deal won't happen, so this course of action gets it back on track, and him and his backers plans to make a mountain of money due to the chaos are still going strong...

This is him sorting it out... For his benefit, not anyone else's.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 
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Goddess Jasmine wrote:
Kern wrote:
The argument is that as a new goverment they want to have a Queen's Speech to set out the new agenda, and so they need a new session of Parliament. The problem is that they've requested a far longer length of time than is usual in these cases, and whilst Parliament is usually in recess for a few weeks of the conference season, there were moves to cancel this. In short, they're reducing the available number of days Parliament could sit if it chose.

Thanks Kern, I think that's what I don't get. Surely he's had most of summer to sort this out. :shrug:


Oh yes, of course he has. They they have the front to stand there and claim it’s nothing to do with Brexit and that those who are objecting are just pretending to be outraged.

It’s the Trump school of refuting facts that are staring you in the face.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:51 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
They they have the front to stand there and claim it’s nothing to do with Brexit and that those who are objecting are just pretending to be outraged.

It’s the Trump school of refuting facts that are staring you in the face.


And whenever Mr Johnson does something like this, he does that annoying smirk. He can't even pretend to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 
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As for the use of procedural tricks, those supporting the prorogration (a fun word to say, but a bastard to type) could argue that since 2017 Brexitsceptics have been using obscure and archaic parliamentary rules so they shouldn't complain when it's done to them. But this overlooks the fact that such measures (eg use of "Humble Addresses" to get documents; taking control of Parliamentary agenda for the Cooper bill or the indicative votes) were designed to keep the legislature open and promote debate, not restrict it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:47 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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We're already piling headlong to being a bankrupt state, may as well go the whole hog and be a fascist one as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 13:19 
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One minister, Lord Young, has resigned. I'm still waiting for all those Cabinet ministers who were admanataly against prorogation a couple of months ago to follow suit.

Giphy "tumbleweed":
https://media0.giphy.com/media/n1RJwTK8oMD5K/giphy-loop.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 16:18 
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can I ask a dumb question about resigning?
I've been wondering about this for quite a while as many many people resigned in protest, also in Mays time
Is it not better to have these people stay and actually protest in the room? With votes going against the stupid plans?
How does resigning in protest help other then the 5 mins coverage that you really disagree with this
Is there a benefit that I don't understand?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 16:22 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Cabinet works under the idea of Collective Responsibility. So, when you take a cabinet role, you effectively agree that you fully support any decisions taken by the PM/Cabinet. You can't step outside that and dissent, so the only option is resignation.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 16:24 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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The cabinet isn't a democracy, so while it would be nice to stay in and try and argue things out, if there is no chance of you winning that argument then it must be soul destroying personally, and resigning at least shows the people who voted you in what your position is.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 16:30 
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It's worth actually noting that they are resigning as Cabinet ministers. They still are MPs or Lords, so they can still participate in votes and discussions in Parliament. But by resigning they are released from collective responsibility so are free to disagree with the government's approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 16:33 
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Cras wrote:
Cabinet works under the idea of Collective Responsibility. So, when you take a cabinet role, you effectively agree that you fully support any decisions taken by the PM/Cabinet. You can't step outside that and dissent, so the only option is resignation.

Although (unprecedentedly?) we had Cabinet members abstaining on multiple three-line-whip votes at the end of May's tenure.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 16:49 
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Cras wrote:
It's worth actually noting that they are resigning as Cabinet ministers. They still are MPs or Lords, so they can still participate in votes and discussions in Parliament. But by resigning they are released from collective responsibility so are free to disagree with the government's approach.

Ah I guess it's this bit that I didn't get, because I thought these ppl actually went home :facepalm:
sorry and thanks all for explaining


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:21 
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FFS. Have you only just noticed this?

https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status ... 8891725825




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:22 
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"We need to start talks now"

Wow.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:59 
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gooby pls

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Stop talking them down, Cras! They're just taking that "just in time" methodology and applying it to this - I think it's a very modern approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 13:16 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
FFS. Have you only just noticed this?

https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status ... 8891725825




I reckon this might be a step toward revoking A50

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