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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 14:12 
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Let's check in with how those cross-party talks are going

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/10 ... 4654046208




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 14:13 
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I think the compromises will be adding to the red lines.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 14:21 
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I just feel so angry about the whole thing but also resigned to the fact that whatever happens next it's going to be absolutely fucking shit. Exactly how I felt when the result came in. The only progress since then has been a few dead gammons.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 14:25 
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markg wrote:
The only progress since then has been a few dead gammons.


On that note.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum

Quote:
The psephologist and founding YouGov president, Peter Kellner, calculates that the leave vote has been declining by about 1,350 a day, taking into account the differential turnout: the young turn out to vote much less often than the old. By using exactly the same proportion of every age group turning out to vote exactly as they did in 2016, demographics alone will have transformed the UK into a remainer nation.

The true “will of the people” looks considerably more questionable if it turns out to be the will of dead people – not the will of those who have the most life ahead of them to face the consequences.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 14:47 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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I'd like to think we are swinging to a remain majority, but the government fuck up isn't really showing that remain is the better option, depending on your point of view.
"The EU won't compromise, they won't work with us, this just shows that we have to leave!" etc... Plus the doubling down of the original leave voters on their choice, and the well oiled "project fear" message pulling in more.

The old dying and the young voting will help, but we will be relying on the apathetic to vote this time around, which is not a good position to be in.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 15:31 
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https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status ... 8066845696




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:50 
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Hearthly wrote:
markg wrote:
The only progress since then has been a few dead gammons.


On that note.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum

Quote:
The psephologist and founding YouGov president, Peter Kellner, calculates that the leave vote has been declining by about 1,350 a day, taking into account the differential turnout: the young turn out to vote much less often than the old. By using exactly the same proportion of every age group turning out to vote exactly as they did in 2016, demographics alone will have transformed the UK into a remainer nation.

The true “will of the people” looks considerably more questionable if it turns out to be the will of dead people – not the will of those who have the most life ahead of them to face the consequences.

I don’t think the result would have been any different if the first referendum was held today, these 2+ years on. People as a whole get more selfish, less welfare minded (despite being the biggest pull on it) and more politically conservative as they age. I think today’s 80 year olds would have voted the same as 2016’s 80 year olds. I think those who were 60 in 2016 would have been marginally more likely to vote leave now in 2019 as their years advance. I’d hope the vote outcome would be different with the benefit of hindsight if there were a second vote, but who knows. I at least hope it would mobilise even more young people to vote. Basically, I dont think we are seeing the old, racist generation drop away.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:35 
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I think it's a bit of both. But as a whole things move in the right direction across the board. At least in the usual course of events, but I fear that the last few years have brought out the absolute worst in a lot of people and shifted the tone of public debate to a place where expressing vile views is more acceptable. And so I have absolutely zero confidence that another vote would go remain.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:38 
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markg wrote:
I think it's a bit of both. But as a whole things move in the right direction across the board. At least in the usual course of events, but I fear that the last few years have brought out the absolute worst in a lot of people and shifted the tone of public debate to a place where expressing vile views is more acceptable. And so I have absolutely zero confidence that another vote would go remain.


I’d feel more hopeful on a second vote, not because I believe people are less racist/less stupid, but simply because who the heck can have had even a light awareness of May and her ‘negotiations’ and think ‘yeah... this is going to go okay’.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:40 
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Well on current polling quite a lot of them. Gammons be stubborn.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 14:53 
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Mimi wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
markg wrote:
The only progress since then has been a few dead gammons.


On that note.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum

Quote:
The psephologist and founding YouGov president, Peter Kellner, calculates that the leave vote has been declining by about 1,350 a day, taking into account the differential turnout: the young turn out to vote much less often than the old. By using exactly the same proportion of every age group turning out to vote exactly as they did in 2016, demographics alone will have transformed the UK into a remainer nation.

The true “will of the people” looks considerably more questionable if it turns out to be the will of dead people – not the will of those who have the most life ahead of them to face the consequences.

I don’t think the result would have been any different if the first referendum was held today, these 2+ years on. People as a whole get more selfish, less welfare minded (despite being the biggest pull on it) and more politically conservative as they age. I think today’s 80 year olds would have voted the same as 2016’s 80 year olds. I think those who were 60 in 2016 would have been marginally more likely to vote leave now in 2019 as their years advance. I’d hope the vote outcome would be different with the benefit of hindsight if there were a second vote, but who knows. I at least hope it would mobilise even more young people to vote. Basically, I dont think we are seeing the old, racist generation drop away.


I know one 64 year old who voted to stay and whose views haven't changed. In fact, in light of the number of businesses moving or planning to move out of the UK, the loss of essential foreign employees leaving the NHS, the increase off homophobia, etc. feels more strongly that staying is a far better option. Mind you, when he hits 65 in a few weeks he might turn into a Nigel Farage fanboy.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 15:20 
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I miss Cavey.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 15:34 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 16:01 
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Unpossible!

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Warhead, are you the 64 year old of which you speak?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 0:56 
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Guilty as charged.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 19:28 
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Check out @stevedouble’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/stevedouble/status/ ... 1766542336




Amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 20:43 
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Amazing that you still leave the ?s=09 on the end?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 20:46 
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Grim... wrote:
Amazing that you still leave the ?s=09 on the end?


Fixed?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 20:58 
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https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 6931294209




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 21:20 
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I read that wrong at first - I thought "bloody hell, a reduction to 75% of current capacity is going to royally fuck stuff up". And then I re-read it. :o


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:33 
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One of the reasons the Prime Minister gives against having a second ['Third' - Constitutional history nerds] vote/people's vote/final say/'are you want to permanently delete these items?' is that it will hasten the break-up of the United Kingdom. Unlike, say, leaving the EU.

Quote:
I fear that a second referendum would set a difficult precedent that could have significant implications for how we handle referendums ​in this country—not least, strengthening the hand of those who are campaigning to break up our United Kingdom
.
Hansard


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:41 
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This is a perfectly reasonable question and response in the House of Commons in peacetime.

Quote:
Sir Vince Cable (Twickenham) (LD)

I, too, welcome the fee waiver and the Prime Minister’s willingness to engage in serious conversations, including about the merits and practicalities of a people’s vote. May I ask a specific question? At the end of last week, the Secretary of State for Defence put 3,500 troops on Brexit standby. Will she clarify what their rules of engagement would be in the event that they face angry and violent demonstrators, and would they be armed?

The Prime Minister

It is of course right that the Government are taking the necessary contingency arrangements for the situation. The right hon. Gentleman will find that we are talking about those troops perhaps being able to relieve others who are undertaking roles such as the guarding of certain sites. That is what we are talking about.

Hansard

This is all perfectly fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:42 
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Can't be arsed reading the rest of this debate.

Going to see Adonis live on stage on Wednesday. Hope the hen parties don't block my view.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:59 
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A good Twitter 'thread' about all THOSE EVIL EU RULES. (72 out of 34,105.)

https://twitter.com/mac_puck/status/1087360379691380736




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Screenshot 2019-01-22 at 08.58.39.png


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:39 
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Funnily enough, May scrapping the fees for the EU settlement thing, while ostensibly a good move, causes absolute chaos in the department of government responsible for it, and utterly wrecks their budget.

The department was told it was happening less than half an hour before the announcement.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:44 
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Hearthly wrote:
A good Twitter 'thread' about all THOSE EVIL EU RULES. (72 out of 34,105.)


Brilliant, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:44 
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Maybe they could take on some cheaper migrant staff to help out?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:44 
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Curiosity wrote:
Funnily enough, May scrapping the fees for the EU settlement thing, while ostensibly a good move, causes absolute chaos in the department of government responsible for it, and utterly wrecks their budget.

The department was told it was happening less than half an hour before the announcement.


After the Windrush scandal, I'd be very sceptical about the Home Office running such a scheme in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 13:34 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Curiosity wrote:
Funnily enough, May scrapping the fees for the EU settlement thing, while ostensibly a good move, causes absolute chaos in the department of government responsible for it, and utterly wrecks their budget.

The department was told it was happening less than half an hour before the announcement.


Half an hour is luxury! In the past i've had project direction fundamentally reset by a minister standing up in parliament and making a promise. The first we heard of if was someone asking if we saw what he had said...


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 15:45 
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So, the MP for Shrewsbury has formally asked the Polish government to intervene and block any attempt by the UK Parliament to extend the Article 50 period.

This is someone who wants a hard, No Deal Brexit, because he wants the UK Parliament to retain sovereignty... begging an EU nation to veto the UK Parliament’s decision.

Not at all related to his conflicting jobs as a columnist for Aaron Banks and a financial advisor for an American metals firm. He stands to make a serious amount of money by forcing No Deal. How the fuck is this allowed?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 15:56 
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This 'Twitter' comment about that amused me.

I am good at Twitter now although I still don't 'Tweet'.

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Screenshot 2019-01-22 at 14.55.46.png


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:02 
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Fucking shocker. Dyson to move global HQ from Wiltshire to Singapore. Totally didn't see that coming.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:04 
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Cras wrote:
Fucking shocker. Dyson to move global HQ from Wiltshire to Singapore. Totally didn't see that coming.

That sucks

Isn’t Henry Dyson (or whatever his name is) extremely pro-Brexit too?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:06 
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James. Yes, he has from day one been the worst kind of ridiculous hypocrite.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:08 
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Cras wrote:
James. Yes, he has from day one been the worst kind of ridiculous hypocrite.

I was getting two vacuum companies mixed up

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:09 
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Cras wrote:
Fucking shocker. Dyson to move global HQ from Wiltshire to Singapore. Totally didn't see that coming.

I bet MrChris did


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:28 
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Julia Hartley-Brewer, a big Brexit supporter who has previously castigated Remainers who have moved to Singapore, is selling this as a great move for a global Britain.

She really is awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 19:49 
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I don't think about it's what's best for the country any more. It's about 'my side' beating 'their side' no matter what. Far easier than admitting a mistake. Besides, that column won't write itself, and without something to say you won't get the call back from the desperate rolling news producer.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 20:00 
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Curiosity wrote:
Julia Hartley-Brewer, a big Brexit supporter who has previously castigated Remainers who have moved to Singapore, is selling this as a great move for a global Britain.

She really is awful.

MrChris had it coming though.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 20:39 
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Based on this report the populace are very, very split every which way. I've been dipping in and out of the articles today, all written by researchers in the electoral studies field. Some interesting stuff about differences across the 4 nations, across town-and-city, between the parties, and between remainers and leavers. In short, to reconcile all the competing views, we'd probably need a Solomon rather than a May or a Corbyn.

Will be sending it to either the Kindle or the office printer for further digestion.

Quote:
Only one in 16 people did not have a Brexit identity


Who are they? Where do they live? How do we join them?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 0:41 
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DavPaz wrote:
Cras wrote:
Fucking shocker. Dyson to move global HQ from Wiltshire to Singapore. Totally didn't see that coming.

I bet MrChris did

Well he started it.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:16 
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Kern wrote:
Based on this report the populace are very, very split every which way.


The most worrying paper is the one on party members by Tim Bale, Paul Webb and Monica Poletti.
This figure is a sobering thought to those, like me, who want a dance-off:

Quote:
some 82% of Conservative Party members were opposed to holding another referendum if Mrs May’s deal couldn’t get parliamentary approval, while 79% of Labour members wanted to see another vote held.


Good luck to any Tory MP going against their local association without the support of the leadership.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:21 
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Great 'Twitter' 'thread' here with loads of choice Brexiteer quotations.

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/10 ... 4063351808




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:39 
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One of those two executives is my boss so I’m of course delighted

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:24 
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:D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:09 
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MrChrixit

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:18 
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If you enter into a contract you get a 14 day cooling-off period so you can change your mind if you realise the contract was a load of crap. I think we should have had a Brexit cooling-off period with a duration that reflects its relative importance.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:35 
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We do, it's the A50 2 year period. Our elected officials are too scared of losing votes to invoke their statutory rights, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:35 
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Hearthly wrote:
Great 'Twitter' 'thread' here with loads of choice Brexiteer quotations.

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/10 ... 4063351808



I didn't realise that they were posting up quotes styled as tweets, as opposed to actual tweets.

Not that it should matter of course, but you can just see the Brexiteers slamming it as "FAKE NEWS" because the quotes weren't actually tweeted.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 13:27 
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Cras wrote:
We do, it's the A50 2 year period. Our elected officials are too scared of losing votes to invoke their statutory rights, however.


Good point, well made. :facepalm:

I did mail my MP saying that we should be allowed a second bite of the cherry, but I guess they all want to avoid rioting in the streets, or that's the excuse they're using to avoid going down that road.


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