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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:52 
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Prince of Fops

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Kern wrote:
But it'll still be good, right?


Just sent this to my Gmail. Automated responses:

- I think so!

- I don't know.

- I don't think so.

Even the normally effusive Google AI is down on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:52 
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MaliA wrote:
Grayling on R4 this morning spoke absolute twatwaffle about May's speech and how Britain will change. It was incredibly nebulous, and he sounded like he was just reading it ans didn't believe it himself. I was amused.


I just made the mistake of listening to that. It was awful. Almost nothing of substantive content was said. What a waste of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:59 
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Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Grayling on R4 this morning spoke absolute twatwaffle about May's speech and how Britain will change. It was incredibly nebulous, and he sounded like he was just reading it ans didn't believe it himself. I was amused.


I just made the mistake of listening to that. It was awful. Almost nothing of substantive content was said. What a waste of time.

I spent a couple of hours with him in his Parliament office when he was shadow transport sec'. He's as dumb as a box of hair whose entire career seems to be thanks to the fact that he willingly plays the role of lightning rod for the leader.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 13:18 
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Prince of Fops

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DBSnappa wrote:
Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Grayling on R4 this morning spoke absolute twatwaffle about May's speech and how Britain will change. It was incredibly nebulous, and he sounded like he was just reading it ans didn't believe it himself. I was amused.


I just made the mistake of listening to that. It was awful. Almost nothing of substantive content was said. What a waste of time.

He's as dumb as a box of hair.


Love that.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 13:35 
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Paws for thought

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DBSnappa wrote:
Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Grayling on R4 this morning spoke absolute twatwaffle about May's speech and how Britain will change. It was incredibly nebulous, and he sounded like he was just reading it ans didn't believe it himself. I was amused.


I just made the mistake of listening to that. It was awful. Almost nothing of substantive content was said. What a waste of time.

I spent a couple of hours with him in his Parliament office when he was shadow transport sec'. He's as dumb as a box of hair whose entire career seems to be thanks to the fact that he willingly plays the role of lightning rod for the leader.

Apparently he's rather useful as a local mp, so...


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:05 
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May just basically said that she wants a two year transition where basically nothing will change. Brexit can just firmly kicked two more years down the road

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:06 
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And she committed to paying the EU tens of billions. "Go whistle," indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:07 
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Most of it was pretty vacuous, as seems par for the course these days.
I'm not sure how having our arrangements to keep in line with changing EU regulations is going to be any better than the existing EEA arrangements.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:07 
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Also, she really can't do rousing speeches, and shouldn't try. That part was painful.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:09 
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'Let's think creatively'.

Ugh.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:17 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Kern wrote:
Also, she really can't do rousing speeches, and shouldn't try. That part was painful.


She can't do "Walking without looking like she's a reject from Mars Attack" never mind anything else

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:19 
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Gogmagog

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My gran could make a better fist of this clownshow and she's been dead for twenty years.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:24 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
May just basically said that she wants a two year transition where basically nothing will change. Brexit can just firmly kicked two more years down the road


Do you think the EU will say "No deal, or stay" come 2019 and push away any transition stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:38 
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MaliA wrote:
Cras wrote:
May just basically said that she wants a two year transition where basically nothing will change. Brexit can just firmly kicked two more years down the road


Do you think the EU will say "No deal, or stay" come 2019 and push away any transition stuff?


If they don't agree to the transition, we fall out of the EU in March 2019 automatically.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:40 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Cras wrote:
May just basically said that she wants a two year transition where basically nothing will change. Brexit can just firmly kicked two more years down the road


Do you think the EU will say "No deal, or stay" come 2019 and push away any transition stuff?


If they don't agree to the transition, we fall out of the EU in March 2019 automatically.


Wasn't there an "Oh, we didn't really mean it" Art50 straw of hope?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:42 
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I'm pretty sure that if we came begging back, the EU would find a way. But I'm not sure we'd get the rebate back.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:42 
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The makeup sex would be fantastic, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:43 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if we came begging back, the EU would find a way. But I'm not sure we'd get the rebate back.


Yeah, i think that ship Doone is well and truly underway on that

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 15:55 
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Kern wrote:
'Let's think creatively'.

Ugh.

"Ceci n'est pas une Brexit"

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 16:01 
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Zardoz wrote:
Kern wrote:
'Let's think creatively'.

Ugh.

"Ceci n'est pas une Brexit"


Bravo!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 16:43 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Michel Barnier's response - http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_ST ... 427_en.htm

Quote:
We look forward to the United Kingdom's negotiators explaining the concrete implications of Prime Minister Theresa May's speech.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 16:56 
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Gogmagog

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Barnier is excellent.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 17:03 
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He's basically saying that Mrs May no longer gets fashion tips from Vogue but now uses the Emperor's tailors.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 17:20 
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gooby pls

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Low effort Photoshop after reading that the cost of Brexit per household is about £4.2K compared to £317 for staying in.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 19:12 
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Prince of Fops

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GazChap wrote:


Superb


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 19:16 
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Paws for thought

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GazChap wrote:

It's worth it for bendy bananas.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 21:11 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:38 
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Mariana Hyde wins first prize in this week's 'best allegory for Brexit' competition:

Quote:
I increasingly picture Brexit as one of those criminally underwhelming Christmas theme parks in which the UK specialises
.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:12 
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http://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how- ... s-11057545

Quote:
Doubt has been cast over one of the longest-standing economic claims in the Brexit debate after a Sky investigation revealed that Britain's real exports to outside the EU are actually far lower than official figures suggest.

The Government's trade statistics show that, over the past five years, the share of UK goods being exported to the European Union was only 46% - a fact frequently referred to by those who campaigned for Brexit.

However, this number is severely distorted by the flow of gold bullion in and out of London - the world's major centre for the trade of this precious metal.

When gold is excluded from the trade figures, the numbers are transformed - with half of UK physical exports over the past five years going to the EU.
...
Since the vast majority of this gold is shipped to non-EU countries such as China, Switzerland and India, the upshot of these gold figures is to swell the total amount of goods reported as being shipped outside Europe.
...
In the fourth quarter of last year, a sharp outflow of gold showed up as a sudden spike in exports, causing some economists to conclude that Britain's manufacturers were starting to benefit from a post-Brexit jump in confidence.

In fact, the spike was primarily a sign of investors pulling gold out of vaults in London.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:33 
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Gogmagog

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Ho. My.

On one hand, I am taking great delight in how much is being exposed, on the other, saddened that Labour aren't saying "Ich nicten licten, but we've got to go along with it" and instead His Savioir of Us All saus he wants to rescue the idiotic project.


It's all coming out in the wash.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:08 
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I think I might have to start reading the Daily Mail and the Express just to remind myself that this is a good idea and things are going brilliantly.

What I find so frustrating is that, as was once said about the poll tax, it appears that so many otherwise intelligent people seem hell-bent on advocating something ridiculously stupid. At some point the mainstream public (ie - those who were quite happy living their lives without caring about the EU or tariffs or EFTA or Jean-Claude Juncker) will start to suffer and turn against the incumbents. But it takes time, and probably requires a capable opposition leader to channel their discontent.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:43 
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Ticket to Ride World Champion

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Not sure why you feel a reasonable alternative is required for people to vote against something - given the topic of this thread! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:50 
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Oh, yes. I forgot Mr Corbyn won the election. ;)

I'm not convinced he'd want to back out of this. I can understand why Sir Keir is currently charmingly ambivalent, doing enough to keep the remainers on side without pushing around Labour voters who opted for leave, but I don't think the leader is displaying anything other than his deeply held political beliefs.

What I want to avoid is a whole 'stabbed in the back' myth developing. People should feel that the decision to end this nonsense comes from them, rather than the 'slimy European elites'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 13:28 
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Fun (YMMV) stuff on Twitter today regarding the Parliament Act. The Parliament Act allows the government to force through a bill after it has been rejected twice by the lords in two separate sessions. Normally this means a year's delay, as a session of parliament is a year. However, after the election, May extended the current session to two years to avoid there being a vote on the Queen's speech, so if they want to use the parliament act to force through a withdrawal bill rejected by the Lords, it'll take two years instead of just one.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:10 
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Ah, the joys of our constitution! That's made me realise that I've always interpreted 'session' as 'year' when thinking about the Parliament Acts.

The downside is that if the bill doesn't pass and the EU don't agree to extra time we'll be even more fucked in 2019 than we currently will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:23 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
Ah, the joys of our constitution! That's made me realise that I've always interpreted 'session' as 'year' when thinking about the Parliament Acts.

The downside is that if the bill doesn't pass and the EU don't agree to extra time we'll be even more fucked in 2019 than we currently will be.


Currently, we're just dropping into the abyss, aren't we? No 'transition phase' has been agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:29 
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For avoidance of doubt, I think the bill is a dog's breakfast of poorly thought through ideas and shows an utter disdain for the role of Parliament. It's important, however, for a reception statute of some form to exist, otherwise we're opening up a whole can of legal worms as nobody would know which rules apply and which don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:36 
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Sleepyhead

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I thought Ministers could just make up their own laws now anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 20:54 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:01 
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Kern wrote:
it appears that so many otherwise intelligent people seem hell-bent on advocating something ridiculously stupid.


Ain't that the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:09 
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It always feels like we're going round in circles in this thread, and I really can't be arsed to check if I'm repeating myself (or just paraphrasing Ian Dunt or the New European or Richard Gaywood), but I keep on thinking that had Mrs May said on the steps of Downing Street something along the lines of 'we're going to leave the political part of the EU, but given the tightness of the result we're going to work with other parties and our European colleagues seek a settlement that captures a lot of what both sides want then put it to the public for ratification', I probably could have got behind that.

But she didn't, and won't, and it's all a shitstorm and I just want to go back to reading about railway trains and the American Civil War and stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 17:21 
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Here's an interesting report on the conclusions reached by a panel of ordinary people at an intensive deliberation event held by UCL's Constitution Unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 20:21 
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Participant in dramatic games

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I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:08 
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Unpossible!

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romanista wrote:
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england

That was a hard thing to read. So much truth


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:11 
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Unpossible!

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He really nailed the thing that bothers me most about us: The superiority complex.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 23:58 
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Thanks

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romanista wrote:
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england


That's a very good piece, thanks for the link :)

I'd send it to my Brexit supporting/voting in-laws and dad, but it wouldn't change their mind one jot. I've given up arguing with them about it. They wouldn't even read it. And then they'd buy the Telegraph/Mail next day, just as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 23:06 
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Participant in dramatic games

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You're welcome. I was actually kind of scared to post it. Even though i regard you guys as my friends. And have been indulging british culture for at least 25 years, i honestly don't know how brexit moves you deep inside... Compared to Brexit, even the Italians ar simple (having lived there for quite some time)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 
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You're welcome to come and invade us again. Worked out quite well in the late 17th century.

I've subscribed to 'Prospect' for several years and each edition takes about a month to read through its thought-provoking articles. That particular one, however, feels like something I'd read many times from the comment pages of the 'Guardian' or the 'New Statesman'. I note the author himself admits his debt to Orwell's 'Lion and the Unicorn' essay which is probably the best starting point for any discussion of Englishness (and I think this is an English, not British, issue).

Brexit is a shitstorm and has revealed the rather nasty subsoil underneath our modern, open, and tolerant gloss. But for all our faults (class; unbalanced wealth structure; povery; Pacer trains), there's a lot of good things that are worth celebrating (eg the NHS; the BBC; beer; the great outdoors).


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:18 
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Unpossible!

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and Kern.

But he probably thinks he's Cornish


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 
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Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did.


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