Be Excellent To Each Other

It's a good job PM Corbyn has a firm hand on tne tiller. Corbyn will save the UK.

Yeah, but his more vocal fans were deeply unhappy with him regenerating into a female PM.

Two days, and three different ministers giving different views on our beloved Brexit. Now, either this means the government no longer cares about collective responsibility and are taking their disputes out into the open, or, of course, it could be a sinister plan to cover all bases by ensuring that every side hears what they want to hear. This one is left as an exercise for the reader.

Still, today Mr Hammond is reported as saying this:



Assuming the Parliament lasts a full term (and Northern Ireland gets showered in more gold than Donald Trump's party guests), my take on his position is that he knows that untangling Britain is far too complex, and the most desirable outcome is something like what we've got now, and by 2022 the public position may be very different to that on 23 June 2016 so the Tories will have to keep abreast of this to stay in power.

I'm expecting a new announcement from somebody calling for immediate Brexit around lunchtime.

Ooh, you are a card, Mali.
Labour are indeed Malicool.

This word does not mean what you think it means

For once he's right

Malicool is whatever you want it to be, surely? A universal wildcard in the sea of life.

Labour are akin to an rusting old shed of a Saab; a car that once, perhaps, in its long distant 70s heyday was well regarded, if not exactly cutting edge; a reassuringly durable, seemingly benign old thing that even now retains an air of Shoreditch shabby chic. It's thus potentially Malicool according to my understanding.

The harsh 'Cavey reality', if you like, is that it's a fucking deathtrap that'll likely kill you, borne of a (deservedly) defunct manufacturer, had its time decades ago and should be sent to the crusher forthwith before it can do anyone any harm. A gleaming blue Bentley with 5-year new warranty, on the other hand, well, that's Caveycool

Saab were mad cutting edge in the 80s/90s. They once got rid of the steering wheel, for instance.

And weren't they the safest manufacturer after Volvo? Maybe. I seem to recall you could drop a car onto one and the doors would still open, because the safety cage was so stiff.

Maybe not, not sure. Either way, probably should have gone with Austin or Rover

Also SAAB make well reputed fighter jets, which isn't quite the comparable you're looking for.

I've always hated Saabs (and Volvos, come to that). Big, 'orrible, ugly tanks IMO.

But then, safety gubbins hasn't always been top of my wishlist.

Meanwhile our current car is actually in a crusher, on fire, while we all bemoan the alternatives.

From inside the car.

Oh, yeah, that's what I meant. Fuck. I should have said that, shouldn't I?

With some cheering that we now have control of our own car. Despite the lack of a steering wheel.

Shotgun!

Whilst the driver announces plans to investigate the exact affect that being on fire, in a crusher, will have on passenger safety.

Monorail!

If Labour is an old Saab the Tories are a fucking clown car.

But it's a Vauxhall! Made in Luton!

A BRITISH CAR FOR BRITISH PEOPLE

This comes up every time. Every fucking time anyone points out how shit, in actual fact, Saabs are (basically tarted up Vauxhall Vectras, hardly themselves pinnacles of motoring excellence)

"b..bbbbut theymake [well known] fighter planes!"

... I even remember the "black out" instrumentation lights button (the ONE thing in common with fighter jets), dead useful if coming under fighter plane attack in your 900 Turbo.

No, I think this is very much the 'comparable' I'm looking for - defunct, bereft and bankrupted shite. If they were any cop they'd still be here - Capitalism, innit.

That was only from 05 to 08, and they kept pissing Vauxhall off by changing everything


Saab went out of business (in part) because they spent way more money than they had making their car better.

So actually it's quite apt.

I believe the first Saab model had a two-stroke engine which didn't deliver enough oil to the engine if it was at tickover (or if the engine wasn't under load). Which meant you had to go down hills with your feet on the brake and the throttle, otherwise the engine would seize up.

And then, of course, your brakes stopped working.

Yeah, bloody dreadful this lowest unemployment in 40 years, 2.6% and falling inflation (compared to a Corby-tastic, IMF-bailing 20-30% in the late 70s), STILL among the best growth rates in EU.

I refuse to take anyone who actually believes that Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell et al are even remotely viable - let alone desirable - alternatives to even this admittedly shit-show of a Tory administration seriously, sorry. You guys...

This is MaliCool

Sounds awesome, such a sad loss, huh.
Much as I love 2-strokes, they don't belong in cars.

Well, that was in 1960, and it was their first try, so exceptions should be made.

I mean, Porsche made tanks for Hitler

Yeah, but they were fucking good tanks...

So hey, let's throw out a key component of our economic policy for the last forty years and see what happens.



I didn't vote Labour this time round because of those three: it was to bring the current administration down. The candidate did, and continues to, say stuff I agree with too. Of course, the Tory candidate still got in with 53% of the vote, but it's the principle of the thing.

Yeah, roof rider!

I've always wanted to ride on top of a train.

Uh..

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... wth-league

Q2 figures are only just coming out but they're not looking any better

https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... iness-live

People have had enough of experts, Cras.

"Uh..." indeed. More Guardian doom-monger spin and bullshit, talking the country down. It's almost like certain people fucking glory in, and hope for, our collective failure as a Nation, just so they can smugly prove some point that they were right.

Two things: The last quarter UK growth has been upgraded (as you know) and you entirely ignore the fact that the UK's growth massively outstrips the EU's in the immediate preceding three consecutive quarters, such that it is, at present at least, certainly true to say that UK growth compares favourably to comparable EU economies. That may change in the future (quite possibly if people keep talking us all down), but it isn't borne out by anything as of yet.

It's this cherry picking that I can't stand - let's hang everything on ONE quarter - an outlier - usually to suit and in response some tiresome, deep-rooted ideology or other. I was, and am still, the first person against Brexit but y'know, we are where we are now, we gotta get on with it. Endlessly pissing and whining, grasping every shred of shit news as supposedly more evidence that we're all fucked and/or some loony-left relic from the 70s (also anti-EU) is supposedly some great panacea, really isn't helping IMO.

(And of course, you entirely cherry picked economic growth in the first place, conveniently ignoring our 4.5% unemployment rate, as over, say, France at 11% and Spain at 20%... it's just all so bloody inconvenient, these pesky truths, right Cras? But then, zero hour contracts, basterd toreeees etc etc repeat to fade, right? )

With that endorsement, I rest my case!

Cavey,

Have you ever watched a friend get involved with a partner you really don't like and who behaves awfully towards them? Have you ever stood there watching them and found yourself thinking 'what does he see in them? why doesn't he end this?' as things get messier and messier?

That's kind of how I feel about Brexit. Right now, I can't see any good coming out of this, other than an EEA solution where we end up almost back to what we've currently got.

@Kern

I hate Brexit, as I've said all along, am still am. This Tory administration is a laughable shit-show, again as I've said.

Brexit is happening, though, and despite all this we still have a chance to make it work (after a fashion) and SOME good stuff MAY come out as well as the bad. I'm a glass half full type of person and we gotta roll our sleeves up and crack on, despite wishing like fuck things were different, I know I do. But endlessly pissing and moaning, talking everyone down, isn't the answer

They have made some FECKING good fighter planes though, and with far less national infrastructure and bribes to help them than, say, BAe who still can't make anything worth buying.

WHOOSH, PEW PEW PEW PEW

I ignored the unemployment figure because we've had that argument before. You think zero hours contracts don't matter because they're jobs, myself and others disagree and think including them makes the unemployment figures disingenuous. There's no point retreading the same ground.

I've not cherry picked facts at all. Those two articles are Q1 and Q2 UK economic growth compared to the rest of Europe. When considering our current trajectory I can't possibly imagine more relevant data - and the Q2 figures linked by me above are after the upgrade that you mentioned.

You said we are leading economic growth in Europe, for the last two quarters we've done the exact opposite.

Also, please don't go down the route of "Brexit is happening, we all have to get behind it and make it a success instead of talking the UK down". That's not how you deal with bad politics.

When Blair took us into Iraq, should the Stop The War coalition have said "The invasion is happening, guess we should support it instead of talking the UK down"

When Brown (by your rhetoric) loosened banking regulation, should we all have said "deregulation is happening, we should all be positive about the banking sector instead of talking the UK down" in 2006?

100% disagree Cavey with both the categorisation of a fair warning about the problems and reporting of facts being classed as "pissing and moaning" and the fact that somehow that is not the answer.

First example I can think of but I know there's plenty more - Hillsborough Families - dismissed as "pissing and moaning" for decades but they didn't give up in light of the fact that people on the other side, (or even their own side at times) thought they were being whiny.

In fact it's "pissing and moaning" by the tabloid press about the EU that is a significant factor in where we are now.

You sound like Liam Fox declaring that the BBC should be more pro-Brexit because, er, patriotism.

But that's clearly bullshit. The last ONE quarter (still in growth, now uprated) shows lower growth than EU as a whole, but the immediately preceding three show the precise opposite, so the aggregate for the last four quarters is still very much in UK's favour. How you can sit there with a straight face and tell me you're not cherry picking is beyond me (and indeed, plain wrong in the most fundamental way imaginable, as according to even your own posted Guardian piece), but I've come to the conclusion you actually believe it. You make yourself believe it.

Doesn't change the immutable facts though I'm afraid, Cras.

(As for the zero hours thing, you very disingenuously and entirely distort my position on that, too, unsurprisingly. I have merely stated, factually btw, that so-called zero hours contracts represent a tiny proportion of total employment in the UK, 2-3% IIRC(?), so whatever the whys and wherefores, and especially since at least some of those will be 'good' contracts/terms and/or with people who actively want such flexible employments, it can be said that their actual import on overall very favourable UK employment rates is demonstrably very low, laying waste the whole "it's all zero hours contracts innit" default-response of you and your ilk to justifiable praise in dramatically low unemployment. Best kind of correct etc. )

Why do you keep saying one quarter? I posted Q1 and Q2 results.

Q1 was when we actually issued article 50. Prior to that Brexit was theoretical, so I don't see how I'm not thoroughly justified in viewing Q1 and Q2 2017 as indicative of the economic direction rather than the preceding three quarters.

Because there is only one in the piece you posted, Q1 2017?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... wth-league



No, the Guardian piece that you linked to in your "Uh.." response states only Q1 (and is wrong btw, Q1=+0.3%, as you know of course). Do you re-read your old posts?
You subsequently linked to a Guardian live feed suggesting a further +0.3%(?) UK Q2 provisional growth rate, which isn't even firm yet, and mere minutes old? Fuck me, you really *can't wait* can you, rubbing your paws with glee. Remember, though, that even an aggregate growth of +0.6% for Q1 and Q2 is hardly the the end of all things as we know it (especially when combined with aforementioned full employment, historically low inflation and sky high share prices)



Erm, Brexit was a reality from Q3 and Q4 last year, both showing absolutely stonking UK gowth, including as over our EU competitors, and we're still ahead in aggregate terms, complete with much lower unemployment etc. in the majority of cases etc etc. But youy ignore all the good and only take the bad, because it suits your held-since-the-dawn-of-Man argument/ideology. It's not so much cherry picking as defying the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

See my post immediately after - Q2 results from this morning.

I don't know what to say. If you think 2016 results are more of an indicator than 2017 I guess there's not a lot more discussion to be had.

Priceless.

Ah, apologies on the former, misread your post. That data being from just this morning doesn't make it inaccurate. It's published data for Q2, it's not subject to change.