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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 18:01 
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Can we get him a peerage?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 21:52 
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From the Brexit white paper. This is the sort of attention to detail that'll stand us in good stead during the difficult negotiations to come.

Also, the PDF is date-stamped with when the final draft was completed: 04:17 this morning. I'm glad we took back control. Just feel really controlled right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 21:56 
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Everything's super controlled, you guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 22:05 
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ELI5 that graph and the mistakes/meaning?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 22:08 
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I don't know your contract, but I don't have 14 weeks holiday.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 22:10 
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They've fixed that graph in the document now, but basically the two "middle" columns are the wrong way around.

What it should say is that EU annual holiday entitlement is 4 weeks but UK's is 5.6 weeks (20 days + bank holidays) and that EU maternity entitlement is 14 weeks, but UK's is 38.

What the unfixed graph says is that UK holiday entitlement is 14 weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 0:14 
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Thanks guys. I was struggling to understand if this was a graph comparing how good it is, or how bad it is to be in the EU, or whether it was a plan to change it to this or simply a balls up.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 0:17 
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It's a graph that is:

1) Wrong, they fucked it up
2) Meaningless - we have higher minimum vacation days that the EU does, so what? Leaving the EU makes no difference to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:24 
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I skimmed the whole thing yesterday. It was pretty vacuous, full of weasly statements and empty clever-sounding words, the kind I would write during essay crises as an undergraduate when I would end up trying to fill up the word count rather than engage with the issue.

The TL;DR of the whole thing: 'everything will be fine, we know what we're doing'.

Still, we now have Mrs May on record as calling us 'losers'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:39 
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Kern wrote:
I skimmed the whole thing yesterday. It was pretty vacuous, full of weasly statements and empty clever-sounding words, the kind I would write during essay crises as an undergraduate when I would end up trying to fill up the word count rather than engage with the issue.
Few things that caught my eye:

Quote:
The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.
This is an absolute howler. God forbid we should be doing all this for something more substantial than the "feeling" of sovereignty.

Quote:
We recognise that for the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland, the ability to move freely across the border is an essential part of daily life. When the UK leaves the EU we aim to have as seamless and frictionless a border as possible between Northern Ireland and Ireland, so that we can continue to see the trade and everyday movements we have seen up to now
Completely substance-free waffle on an issue that deserves much more commitment. Peace in Northern Ireland was one of the defining accomplishments of our government during our lifetimes.

Quote:
The EU budget

8.51 Once we have left the EU, decisions on how taxpayers’ money will be spent will be made in the UK. As we will no longer be members of the Single Market, we will not be required to make vast contributions to the EU budget. There may be European programmes in which we might want to participate. If so, it is reasonable that we should make an appropriate contribution. But this will be a decision for the UK as we negotiate the new arrangements.
That's the entire section. No mention at all of, say, the €60bn the EU is already demanding the UK pay, which, sure, we might negotiate our way out of. But we also might not. Which brings me on to:

Quote:
Risks register
::crickets::

Only joking. The word "risk" only appears in the document twice, in irrelevant contexts. There's nothing in here that specifically itemises potential future problems and then outlines measures to mitigate them. For fuck's sake, I'm a worker peon, and I do that amount of diligence for my annual planning to my boss. If you did that in a project approval document to your board of directors with tens of billions on the line, you'd be laughed out of the room on your way to clearing out your desk.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:37 
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Soopah red DS

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"Vast". Hahahaha. 1.07% of tax, isn't it? Do we all feel massively richer when given a 1% pay rise? Or massively poorer given a 1% cut? Sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:55 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Only joking. The word "risk" only appears in the document twice, in irrelevant contexts. There's nothing in here that specifically itemises potential future problems and then outlines measures to mitigate them. For fuck's sake, I'm a worker peon, and I do that amount of diligence for my annual planning to my boss. If you did that in a project approval document to your board of directors with tens of billions on the line, you'd be laughed out of the room on your way to clearing out your desk.


But the board of directors approved it all the day before they saw it. And nobody thought this was a problem. In years to come so many doctorates will be written about this, and, like the poll tax, we'll read them and think 'nobody could be that daft, could they?'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:10 
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(Which reminds me. I must re-read King & Crewe's superlative 'Blunders of our governments' at some point)


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 0:43 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... article-50

Well, would you just look at that.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:22 
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Gogmagog

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

Data stuff.

If you're poor and less well edumacated, more likely to have voted leave.

Edit: huh, Shipley voted 60℅ remain.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:41 
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Nice graphic in the FT today


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:45 
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Question - that specifies 'EU28' as the destination market. Does that mean it includes trade within the UK? If so, that's a highly disingenuous graphic.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:47 
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Good interview with Ken Clarke.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ic-as-this

Quote:
“I don’t want to fall into the [trap] of wandering around, positively welcoming gloom and disaster, so as to be able to say: ‘I told you so.’ But I actually do think it will make us poorer. It could be a historic disaster.” How bad is historic? “If it turns out to be at some enormous cost and it brings an end to international investment in quite a lot of sectors of the economy, then of course it could be a disaster.”


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:54 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Cras wrote:
Question - that specifies 'EU28' as the destination market. Does that mean it includes trade within the UK? If so, that's a highly disingenuous graphic.


The graphic does repeatedly mention "exports" so you'd hope not. I wonder if the EU28 is some sort of style guide thing the FT has? Otherwise I don't see why they wouldn't just use EU

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:56 
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Cras wrote:
Question - that specifies 'EU28' as the destination market. Does that mean it includes trade within the UK? If so, that's a highly disingenuous graphic.

It's entitled "goods exports" so I think it's pretty safe to assume not.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:05 
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Ah yes, missed that. Would have been better to state EU or EU27 in that case, for clarity.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:39 
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I would have liked to have seen Internal stuff on there as a conparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:42 
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Hearthly wrote:
Good interview with Ken Clarke.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ic-as-this

Quote:
“I don’t want to fall into the [trap] of wandering around, positively welcoming gloom and disaster, so as to be able to say: ‘I told you so.’ But I actually do think it will make us poorer. It could be a historic disaster.” How bad is historic? “If it turns out to be at some enormous cost and it brings an end to international investment in quite a lot of sectors of the economy, then of course it could be a disaster.”


It is a good article, and he gave a fantastic speech in the first debate. I fear he's shouting into the wind though.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 13:13 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034
Quote:
Of the 1,283 individual wards for which we have data, the highest Leave vote was 82.5% in Brambles and Thorntree, a section of east Middlesbrough with many social problems. Ward boundaries have changed since the 2011 census, but in that survey the Thorntree part of the area had the lowest proportion of people with a degree or similar qualification of anywhere in England and Wales, at only 5%. And according to Middlesbrough council, the figure for the current Brambles and Thorntree ward is even lower, at just 4%.


So proud. That's less than a mile from where my parents live. And it's Brambles Farm, h'actually.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 19:04 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Everything is groovy


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 20:43 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:


Quote:
Most of the business leaders (96%) who responded said they were confident their company could adapt to the consequences of leaving the EU.


Bro, do you even survey. That is just the stupidest question ever. Who's going to respond "Nope, we just can't handle it. The moment this happens we'll just fold like a wet newspaper".

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 20:49 
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Cras wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:


Quote:
Most of the business leaders (96%) who responded said they were confident their company could adapt to the consequences of leaving the EU.


Bro, do you even survey. That is just the stupidest question ever. Who's going to respond "Nope, we just can't handle it. The moment this happens we'll just fold like a wet newspaper".


It's been one of my favored two questions* at interviews of late: " how has the firm insulated itself from the negative effects of Brexit?". Mainly by buying up currency now, it seems and optimization of supply chains.

*The other is "why do you like working here?"

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 20:55 
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MaliA wrote:
*The other is "why do you like working here?"

I like "if I come work for you, what would my biggest challenge be in my first three months?"


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:50 
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Gogmagog

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Another 3 line whip from the Corbster.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 13:03 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper.

It is mildly amusing to see him lead his troops through the Conservative lobbies. Ramsay Macdonald became a hate figure for the Labour movement for doing just that.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 13:12 
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Beloved member

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At least there was still a functioning Labour Party after R. MacDonald's leadership...


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 13:30 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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And the touch screens to order are pretty good too.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 13:39 
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I always hated clowns, there's something sinister about them.

But that's enough about Labour's current leadership; the McDonalds' mascot is awesome. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:14 
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Seems any vote will be on a "take this deal, or we leave with no deal".

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:15 
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MaliA wrote:
Seems any vote will be on a "take this deal, or we leave with no deal".


Which is stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:17 
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Will the EU or its major economies suffer if we just fall out and rely on WTO rules? Because if not, I can't see how this is advantageous to us.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:19 
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Kern wrote:
Will the EU or its major economies suffer if we just fall out and rely on WTO rules? Because if not, I can't see how this is advantageous to us.


I doubt it, and well, yes,quite.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:24 
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Still no word from my MP yet. On her website, she says she wants 'the best deal' for Britain. I'd like her to clarify on what 'the best deal' might look like, as well as 'an acceptable deal', and the 'actually, that's pretty rubbish' deal, but I'm not sure I can cope with any more rejection from her.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:45 
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INFINITE POWAH

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MaliA wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Seems any vote will be on a "take this deal, or we leave with no deal".


Which is stupid.

Well, yes. If you've actually got a negotiation where, if agreement isn't reached, both parties can walk away and the status quo is maintained ( I don't buy your Porsche off you for £500k or whatever, you still have your Porsche, I still have my £500k) this works. but if the default is "I get f*cked over" this isn't really a great tactic.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:47 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Yeah, I think that's termed an "ultimatum" rather than a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:48 
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You buy my Porsche for £500k or I slit your throat, basically.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:53 
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Hibernating Druid

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Can't I buy a GT-R, keep £400k and just have a kick in the balls?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:54 
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Zardoz wrote:
Can't I buy a GT-R, keep £400k and just have a kick in the balls?

We're having a hard car sale, and it will be red, white and blue.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 16:56 
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PS: you know we mentioned the 350kw stereo system? We made that up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 17:03 
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Kern wrote:
PS: you know we mentioned the 350kw stereo system? We made that up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

We were just suggesting you *could* put this in your car, if you wanted.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 17:04 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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We'll just buy cars from the US and China and India instead! They'll definitely sell us all the cars we want at a low price with no strings attached, just you wait and see! We don't need your fancy car.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 18:37 
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Est. 1978

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Kern wrote:
PS: you know we mentioned the 350kw stereo system? We made that up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Which is a good job, considering it would probably liquidise you and anyone nearby.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 20:18 
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We've had enough of experts, thank you very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:05 
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Can you dig it?

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Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
PS: you know we mentioned the 350kw stereo system? We made that up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Which is a good job, considering it would probably liquidise you and anyone nearby.


Pshh, your mate Nase would probably just 'lose' it somewhere in East London anyway

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:38 
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Est. 1978

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Right?

We had about two kilowatts, I think. Maybe a little more. The stuff we had didn't have an amazing SPL, but it was on the better end of the range.
We wired it all up to the disco bus once. We didn't do it again.

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