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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:40 
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Plasma gun is underpowered. Gauss gun provides considerably more punch for cell usage.


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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:48 
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Use the health grenades and it gets a lot easier.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:51 
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See, I didn't find they helped at all

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:54 
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Every time I was low on health, I bunged a couple of them at her and I was back to 200. Felt a bit cheaty, to be honest.

It's the only time I used them, though.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:57 
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Cras wrote:
See, I didn't find they helped at all

:this:

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:12 
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Grim... wrote:
Every time I was low on health, I bunged a couple of them at her and I was back to 200. Felt a bit cheaty, to be honest.

It's the only time I used them, though.


Actually I was put off by trying to use them on the stompy Titan dude(s). They do fuck all when they've got their shields up - so I got out of the habit of using them.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:15 
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Lord Humongous

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:this:

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:21 
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Lord Humongous

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I'll get my Gauss on.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:42 
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Grim... wrote:
Every time I was low on health, I bunged a couple of them at her and I was back to 200.
I found the healing grenades pretty useful during the boss fights and the more hectic arena fights, in particular the one at the end of a train line which was rather frantic.


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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:42 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Plasma gun is underpowered. Gauss gun provides considerably more punch for cell usage.

I came to this conclusion too, and it was one reason why I stopped using the plasma gun entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:48 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
in particular the one at the end of a train line which was rather frantic.


That was my most hectic fight of the game, so many fucking things chasing you around the very small area. Top fun, that was.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:49 
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Lord Humongous

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Due to the way I play I find the Plasma rifle really useful for whittling down the larger regular enemies like HK, BoH, etc down for a glory kill though. The heavy hitting weapons can leave you with a pile of mess when you just needed them stunned to replenish energy.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:50 
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Lord Humongous

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Yeah, took a fair few goes at that train station.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 23:07 
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Lord Humongous

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Heh. Finished it first go just by using the gauss instead of the plasma.

Top game that.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:49 
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The boss fights are pretty much zerg-fests on HURT ME PLENTY (I'd estimate you only need to hit about 40-50% of the mechanics moves to survive, if that), they're a real step up on ULTRA VIOLENCE and I have to be honest I'm really not looking forward to them on NIGHTMARE....

One thing that surprised me is how much hurty the frag grenades do to the bosses, they're a genuinely useful source of extra damage.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:12 
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Lord Humongous

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As soon as I finished it I mopped up a couple of weapon masteries in The Foundry.

Think I'll give this a rest for now rather than play again on a higher setting.

Game of the year so far.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:14 
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Better than Dark Souls 3?!

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:25 
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Lord Humongous

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I haven't played that yet. Felt very Souled out after Bloodbourne then playing through DS2 straight after.

Plan on going back to finish MGS5 then I'll pick it up.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:58 
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Probably the best level to do the masteries (and runes) I found was the Argent Research Complex. Think it's called that, the one where you start on the tram and it takes you into the complex with Samuel saying over the intercom it's time that you met.

Right from the get-go there are loads of possessed enemies where you can get them into nice clumps, there's a Mancubus, a Hell Knight, and other goodies all before the first checkpoint.

The Foundry is good, but once you have access to it, the Complex is better.

For the one where you need to get a Summoner for a rocket launcher mastery, you can get to one pretty quickly inside the first hell level, Kadingir Sanctum (sic?) or something.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:25 
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Lord Humongous

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I got the summoner / rocket mastery just playing through the game. It was by far the best way to deal with them.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:28 
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Zardoz wrote:
I got the summoner / rocket mastery just playing through the game. It was by far the best way to deal with them.


Nah. Assault rifle, hold down left trigger, hold down right trigger until it clicks empty.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:42 
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Nah. Too wasteful.

Mini missiles are for all the other bigger baddies.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:46 
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Zardoz wrote:
I got the summoner / rocket mastery just playing through the game. It was by far the best way to deal with them.


I'm very anal about it though, if I get a mastery unlocked during a level and I've not completed it by the end of the level, I then can't bring myself to start the next level with the mastery unlocked but not activated, so I re-visit previous levels (Foundry/Argent Research Complex usually) to get the mastery done, and then begin the next level of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:39 
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Yeah well, you do lots of weird things though.

:kiss:

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 13:15 
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Zardoz wrote:
Yeah well, you do lots of weird things though.

:kiss:


:this:

I've seen his screen tearing first hand. Odd bastard.

Also his collection of heads.

I have decided the biggest reason Doom is so awesome and refreshing is that for once you actually get to see what you are shooting in a modern game. I fired up Battlefield 4 last night for a quick spin and you end up shooting arms / heads from 30 foot away as they poke out over crates - the game has to give you a visual reticle indicator that you've hit your enemy and again when they are dead. With Doom you run up to them and shoot them in their stupid faces with a super shotgun and then rip them apart and move onto the next one. You know they are dead and you know you did it and you also know you are FUCKING AWESOME when the battle finally ends.

Being far away from an enemy is generally a bad thing in Doom because the weapons are geared towards close combat and you can't sit there and snipe thanks to things appearing behind you and tearing you apart in seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 13:18 
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Trousers wrote:
you can't sit there and snipe thanks to things appearing behind you and tearing you apart in seconds.


That's the one thing that irritated me a little. Some of the weapon mods are geared up for long range gameplay - the sniper scope for the assault rifle and gauss gun, and the minigun - and the game really doesn't lend itself to that style of play very well. I mean, I don't care that much because shoving two barrels up a hell knight's arsehole is a load more fun, but it seems like it offers you the option of play style choice but doesn't really live up to it.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 13:51 
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Lord Humongous

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Yeah, there are a few areas where you see cannon fodder in the distance (fun to pick off with headshot) but it's at odds with the rest of the action.

I think they ran out of ideas for weapon mods on some of the guns so slapped on the long range gubbins and made mastery challenges for them.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:15 
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Cras wrote:
it seems like it offers you the option of play style choice but doesn't really live up to it.

Some lingering detritus left over from a game that spent six years in development hell, perhaps. Earlier game designs made more use of them, but the mechanics changed and the guns were left in for whatever reason.

I certainly found the assault rifle scope to be useless, and only rarely used the gauss gun zoom (for long-range Cacodemons, mostly.)


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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:16 
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Like I say, it's no big deal, but it almost makes you think that there would have been more fun uses for weapon upgrade slots. By the end I was basically putting points into things I knew I'd never use.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:18 
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Cras wrote:
By the end I was basically putting points into things I knew I'd never use.

I didn't hate that so much because that meant even players who weren't diligent about looking for secrets could get a fair shake at upgrading their weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:20 
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I wasn't even slightly diligent and I had tons left over. If I got any of the challenges or secrets it was by chance.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:27 
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Cras wrote:
I wasn't even slightly diligent and I had tons left over. If I got any of the challenges or secrets it was by chance.


The number of available weapon mods is exactly the same as the number of Field Drones in the game, so you need to find all the drones to unlock every mod tree.

There are enough weapon upgrade points in the game to max every mod tree out and still have a fair few left over.

(For the Praetor Suit upgrades you need to find every Argent Energy to max it out.)

I think the balance they struck was pretty good, putting enough stuff in that was obvious and/or easy to give people blasting through the game a decent number of upgrades, but rewarding the more diligent player as well.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:47 
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Cras wrote:
I wasn't even slightly diligent and I had tons left over. If I got any of the challenges or secrets it was by chance.

Hearthly wrote:
There are enough weapon upgrade points in the game to max every mod tree out and still have a fair few left over.
About 15, I think, on a perfect single runthrough. Which means Cras either lucked across almost all the challenges or secrets, he replayed levels a lot, or he's misremembering about how many points he had.


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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 14:53 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
I wasn't even slightly diligent and I had tons left over. If I got any of the challenges or secrets it was by chance.

Hearthly wrote:
There are enough weapon upgrade points in the game to max every mod tree out and still have a fair few left over.
About 15, I think, on a perfect single runthrough. Which means Cras either lucked across almost all the challenges or secrets, he replayed levels a lot, or he's misremembering about how many points he had.


Don't forget that my complaint was about spending points on things I didn't want, relating to the mostly useless mods, not that I had tons left after doing all the upgrades.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 21:04 
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Fuck me NIGHTMARE skill level is a handful.

If you're thinking it checkpoints an awful lot, like, you've hardly killed a handful of baddies since the last checkpoint so why's it checkpointing again? Seriously, you'll be praying to see that CHECKPOINT REACHED message as often as possible. There is no such thing as an irritating frequency for that message to pop up.

There's shitloads more of all the baddies, all the time, they're insanely aggressive, and almost any major attack is capable of one-shotting you. (Even just the basic Possessed Solider's charged shot will kill you outright, for example.)

The shards of armour are worth one armour. Thanks. Some of the health pick-ups are worth one health. One.

Glory kills become something you have to seriously think about, because any nearby enemy will be quite capable of killing you during the animation (all one second of it), and the health they yield is so pitiful it's hardly worth it EXCEPT ammo levels are fairly harsh too so it's worth saving the rounds and getting the glory kill off despite the danger.

My new best friend is explosive barrels as they represent an insane amount of potential damage to several enemies at once.

It's a harsh but fair skill level, and still fun. I'm almost determined to do this just to see if an old bastard like me has still got it in him.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:21 
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Foundry done on NIGHTMARE, and I reckon that overall this runthrough this will be do-able as long as it doesn't chuck up any insane difficulty spikes. (I'm already thinking faaaaar ahead to the train station fight and weeping a bit.)

The final arena fight in Foundry before you move onto the next level (the wind turbine bit) was very tough, but it was ultimately just a question of getting the tactics down and then it went OK. The chainsaw becomes almost mandatory if you're facing two tough enemies at once, to remove one of the threats (Hell Knights definitely fall into this category on NIGHTMARE).

Plasma rifle with heat blast but no upgrades is good for the Hell Knights (well, one at a time at least), shotgun with mastery explosive shot is bread and butter for everything else, I've got two of the three 'equipment' Praetor upgrades done already as double frag grenades on a reduced cooldown are excellent. The rocket launcher is fucking useless in its basic state. Two out of three micro missiles upgrades done but they're not rocking my world, the splash damage on NIGHTMARE is ruthless to the extent that they're sort of a ranged weapon which is then not very DOOM.

So yeah, playthrough three comfortably underway, as it stands at the moment I'm fully intending to see it out.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 19:02 
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Argent Facility and Argent Energy Tower now done on NIGHTMARE, and I'm doing the rune trial on each level as well. (Also another 100% max run on secrets, challenges, (i.e. weapon upgrade points), Praetor upgrades etc, so my dude is as powerful as he can be for the point in the game I'm at.)

TBH I'm not really struggling now, if anything the game was tougher when I was running with more of a 'default' sort of marine as you have nearer the start of the game, now that I've started to mould him into the character I want, I'd say that on balance it's getting easier. (Don't get me wrong, I'm dying a lot, but once I've got a feel for any given encounter, it generally goes OK once I execute the plan for it.)

I snagged the Super Shotgun a level early again, and immediately maxed and masteried it out, and it remains as devastating as ever. I'm favouring AMMO over HEALTH on the Praetor upgrades (keeping ammo one notch ahead of health), because a lot of the time if you get properly hit you're dead anyway so health can be a bit 'all or nothing', whereas ammo is fab for as long as you're alive.

But ultimately, when it comes to the tough fights, just don't stop moving, the enemies are all pretty dumb, they don't work together, they all seem to travel directly to wherever you are and indeed shoot at wherever you are with no prediction, so just running around in a fucking circle, picking them off, and not letting them 'lock on' works rather well. (I mean, do it tactically, take in ammo/armour/health/powerups/etc as you're moving around, but the basic principle remains.)

Yes it's a bit more nuanced than that as a lot of them have ranged attacks and won't move in unless they have to, some have charges, Summoners have to take priority etc but this is my third playthrough of the game now so I can generally map out pretty well in my head what baddies are around me and how best to work my way through them.

Oh yes and fuck glory kills, too much risk for not enough reward, once you've got some AMMO Praetor upgrades on board the extra shots it takes to kill things outright doesn't really matter.

The first thing I'm expecting to really test me now is the Cyberdemon boss fight, that's still going to be interesting I think.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 20:58 
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Kadingir Sanctum and Argent Facility (Destroyed) now done.

By far the toughest thing the game has chucked at me for quite some time now on NIGHTMARE skill level is the ARMORED OFFENSIVE rune trial. You know, the one where you start with one health, no armour, and a shotgun equipped with just the basic charged burst mod - and have to kill eight demons whilst trying to scavenge armour scraps off the floor, all against the clock.

The Pinky and Hell Knight are of course the major problems here, so it was a case of working out the best way to take down the other six demons (even Imps and Possessed Soldiers are hugely dangerous on NIGHTMARE), and then taking down the Hell Knight and Pinky one at a time (as it's effectively impossible to take them on together).

Took many attempts, but I got there in the end - the very different movement patterns of the Pinky and Hell Knight means that with enough travelling around the arena, you can keep them separated and just about get both kills done as the last few seconds tick down on the clock.

I went Hell Knight first, and left the Pinky to last as he can cover so much ground so quickly, plus once he's missed you with his charge, his arse is very vulnerable. (Fun fact from one of the main levels, a Pinky takes two fully charged siege mode Gauss Cannon shots to the face to kill on NIGHTMARE.)

I'm really glad I've gone for a NIGHTMARE playthrough of this game, it's one of the harshest challenges I've set myself for quite some time I think, but hugely rewarding when you nail something as brutally difficult as that rune trial on the hardest skill level the game has to offer.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 13:40 
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I did the Cyberdemon on Ultra Violence last night. That took a few goes but it never felt unfair - I never felt like the death wasn't my fault for not jumping quick enough or getting out of the way.

I had the tiniest sliver of health left when he went down. oh MY that felt good.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 22:33 
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I am now up to Lazarus Labs on my NIGHTMARE playthrough so I shall be attending to the Cyberdemon tomorrow evening, either that or he'll just repeatedly kill me forever.

The boss fights are massively improved on ULTRA VIOLENCE I think, on HURT-ME-PLENTY you could basically just chuck everything you had at them whilst making a modest amount of effort not to stand in the way of the most obviously ruinous attacks, and you'd win - on ULTRA VIOLENCE they felt like proper 'old-fashioned' boss fights where one serious mistake resulted in death.

On a wider note, whilst I fully appreciate everyone should play games however they want to, I can't help but feel that anyone who's blasted through the game on HURT-ME-PLENTY is kind of missing out. The exploration element of finding all the goodies adds a whole extra element of fun and satisfaction to the game IMO, and ULTRA VIOLENCE fills in the combat side of things with a genuinely worthwhile challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 22:45 
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Just got the super shotgun.

BOOM SCHLICK SCHLOCK

daddy's back, baby. Daddy's back.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 23:56 
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MaliA wrote:
Just got the super shotgun.

BOOM SCHLICK SCHLOCK

daddy's back, baby. Daddy's back.

Me too!

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:37 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Just got the super shotgun.

BOOM SCHLICK SCHLOCK

daddy's back, baby. Daddy's back.

Me too!


How cool is it when you chainsaw a Hell Knight the grab a Beserk and punch everythibg to death?

I love it.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:39 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 44220
Location: West Yorkshire
Those Summonwrs are real witches. EAT MICRO MISSILES YOU TELEPORTING TOSSERS!

I find them tricky to grab.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:47 
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Lord Humongous

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 44318
Location: The erogenous zone
Summoners like to have locked on missiles smashed into their faces.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:51 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 44220
Location: West Yorkshire
Zardoz wrote:
Summoners like to have locked on missiles smashed into their faces.


Wait! I forgot I had a Rocket Launcher!

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:56 
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Lupine member

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 51740
Location: Nottingham
MaliA wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Summoners like to have locked on missiles smashed into their faces.


Wait! I forgot I had a Rocket Launcher!

Only in DOOM could THIS happen.

Can't wait to get HOME later so I can play IT some more.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:34 
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Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 11457
Got Lazarus Labs and the Cyberdemon done last night.

The level itself was OK with the usual NIGHTMARE rules applied, i.e. death is never more than one decent hit away.

The Cyberdemon wasn't too bad, basically all his stuff is one-shot kill so the mechanics have to be diligently followed, but whilst I was playing around with tactics I realised there's a close-medium range you can keep him at whereby the super shotgun is still effective but he won't try and pull one of his devastating melee moves on you, and you're still at a reasonable enough distance to follow the ranged mechanics. Oh yes and lob frag grenades on cooldown. Think I may have chucked some precision shots with the gauss cannon in as well.

That was phase one of the fight done, phase two was follow mechanics for the 'rock tunnel' section, and then use the BFG for damage and a stun, run in with super shotgun BANG BANG BANG, back out to range when he recovers, and repeat. I augmented that with some rocket launcher, grenades, and maybe some more gauss cannon.

Oh yes, the upgraded Saving Throw rune is crazy good for this, as it basically gives you two chances to survive fucking up a mechanic.

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 21:38 
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Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
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DOOM DLC incoming and it is indeed multiplayer as someone said a few pages back.

Since I haven't even loaded up multiplayer (despite 72 hours of playtime and not (quite) done yet), I guess I'll be giving this a miss. (Yes I know there's a few easy cheevos in there, but they hold no interest.)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... is-weekend

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 Post subject: Re: DOOM
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:01 
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Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
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Doom the boardgame : https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/n ... mminent-1/


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