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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:18 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Hearthly wrote:
There was quite a good Jim-Quisition video about this.

For our circle of gamers none of us are buying Battlefront 2, whereas without the pay-to-win shit it would have definitely been on the list for us all to maybe buy it for Saturday night multiplayer shenanigans.



You really do have an interesting view of the world...

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:07 
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MrChris wrote:
This is not pay to win . You do not need to pay anything other than the 45 quid or so for the game. All unlocks are available without spending more money. Unlocks will not destroy playing or fun for you if you're not one of the 2% of players who pay for it.


This is hilariously naive of you. As soon as these kind of mechanics appear in a game the design will almost certainly be tilted towards 'encouraging' you to use them; because otherwise why would they even be there? This is especially going to be true when the publisher has eschewed all other types of advanced fucking monetisation and pinned all their greedy little hopes on the loot boxes. I mean Christ, this has already proven itself to be true with the the ridiculous amount of grinding that was required to unlock Vader/Luke! Just because they've made a pretty Star Wars game doesn't mean you can't recognise the shitty things they've done with it...

ETA: to clarify, I'm not saying this is actually 'pay to win' or that it'll be unplayable terrible if you don't buy extra shit or anything. But it absolutely shouldn't be written off as having no impact on the gameplay at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:08 
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KovacsC wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
There was quite a good Jim-Quisition video about this.

For our circle of gamers none of us are buying Battlefront 2, whereas without the pay-to-win shit it would have definitely been on the list for us all to maybe buy it for Saturday night multiplayer shenanigans.



You really do have an interesting view of the world...


Is the irony of this entirely lost on you?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
:kiss:


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:22 
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Trekkies won’t think about whether they’re being ripped off or whether it’s a bad product, they just hear “YOU CAN PLAY AS A MUPPET” and spaff their money on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:33 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Bamba wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
There was quite a good Jim-Quisition video about this.

For our circle of gamers none of us are buying Battlefront 2, whereas without the pay-to-win shit it would have definitely been on the list for us all to maybe buy it for Saturday night multiplayer shenanigans.



You really do have an interesting view of the world...


Is the irony of this entirely lost on you?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
:kiss:


Hearthy being ironic.... is that possible? :p

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 18:08 
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It's completely irrelevant whether it's pay-to-win or not.

Loot-boxes are exploitative. They damage the game that they are in.

I'd prefer if it was pay-to-win. Like you could totally buy the best gun for *two pounds*, and you selected it from a list, paid your money and boom, you got it. That, at least, is a fair method in that there is a clear price tag. It sucks if you can't afford it, but you know how much it is going to cost upfront.

With loot-boxes, that amount is random and hidden.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 21:49 
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Ars Technica are not complimentary.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/ ... s-economy/

They do think it's pay to win, and they've played it more than me, so I'll have to agree with them (and Hearthly) for more.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 21:57 
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Wow. What a colossal pile of bollocks that is. I'm not touching this.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:05 
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Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:07 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


You can play as Vader?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:09 
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People spaff themselves stupid over Star Wars, losing any sense of criticism they would have for any other franchise so maybe EA thought they could get away with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:19 
Lonewolves wrote:
Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


Yeah it's care packages that have shit in, you do daily/weekly objectives to get more. although it seems you unlock stuff by levelling as usual though. The stuff in the loot boxes just seem like stuff you'll unlock anyway. I may be wrong though.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:26 
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nickachu wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


Yeah it's care packages that have shit in, you do daily/weekly objectives to get more. although it seems you unlock stuff by levelling as usual though. The stuff in the loot boxes just seem like stuff you'll unlock anyway. I may be wrong though.

That sounds about right. Apart from the fact you can also earn points by watching other people open loot crates and then get them yourself? Should be called an envy score or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 23:22 
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Grim... wrote:
They do think it's pay to win, and they've played it more than me, so I'll have to agree with them (and Hearthly) for more.


I've been keeping a close eye on this game for a while, and it was obvious from the beta reviews that it was pay to win, and that unless EA completely ripped the whole thing to pieces and started again, it would remain pay to win for the retail release.

Of course unlock trees and weapons and gadgets and all that stuff are nothing new, but whereas in the Battlefield games for example (including the most recent releases in the franchise BF4 and (the annoyingly titled) BF1), every class gets a decent starter gun that you can get to be exactly how you want it within a few hours of play with transparent and linear (nothing random) unlock progression, wherase Battlefront 2 really does gate genuinely 'better stuff' behind a terrible random grind or a (potentially substantial) random monetary shortcut.

I documented in the BF4 thread how I was very much behind the curve due to the game's release issues and not really 'feeling' it for the game overall so wasn't playing it much, but finally decided to make a push to get into the game, and it took me just a single evening playing as Assault to get my solider pretty much exactly where I wanted him to be - and ready to join my chums as a totally loaded out Assault class player. Yes there was tons of stuff still to unlock but it was 'preference' stuff rather than 'mathematically better' as Battlefront 2 serves up, for cold hard cash.

This crap needs to be called out, because it's arguably the start of the death of videogaming as we know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 0:30 
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Nice article: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/feat ... rs-w511655

FIFA’s Ultimate Team loot box generates $800 million a year! Cripes.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 0:53 
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That Ars Tec article does make it sound rather irritating.

Grim..., are you and the Grimlet enjoying it?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:16 
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He thinks it's amazing.

I've not played it.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:56 
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Grim... wrote:
He thinks it's amazing.

I've not played it.

Better make sure he doesn’t get your credit card number.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 19:57 
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Interesting idea on Twitter from an old Internet pal of mine: we all know Disney are pretty hair-trigger about damage to their image. How many "the new Star Wars game is an exploitative gambling shitshow aimed at your kids" headlines does it take before they get reeeaaalllyyy angry with EA?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:07 
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https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comment ... ion_of_ea/ ?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:11 
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Yeah, like that. The presentation is very tinfoil-hat-Internet but there's maybe enough of a point underneath the hyperbole to trouble Disney, if it gets traction.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:23 
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Grim... wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/7d1kj8/lets_not_forget_a_significant_portion_of_ea/ ?

I started reading bits of this thread by accident and because I’d never heard of loot crates and then started reading about them and then went down an Internet rabbit hole, as you do. Anyway, from what I can see this game has a PEGI rating of 16, and though I know that’s not the same as a film sale restriction certificate as far as legality of sale is concerned, it does perhaps suggest that the ‘they’ve made this as a ploy to rob our seven year olds’ moral panic has a very obvious ‘don’t ignore the age rating, if that’s your concern’ rebuttal. Obviously in REALITY LAND, parents will get their kids games... I saw it when I worked in HMV all the time, and all you can do is point out the rating and let them decide, but it does offer the publishers at least some cushion.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 21:09 
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No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 21:15 
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Lonewolves wrote:
No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

Yeah, I pretty much said that.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:54 
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Nice mansplaining myp.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:40 
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FFS Myps.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:00 
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Very good thread on microtransaction-based game design, and what Battlefront did wrong, from a mobile game designer:
https://twitter.com/ZenOfDesign/status/ ... 2859344896




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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:03 
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:15 
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Mimi wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

Yeah, I pretty much said that.

I apologise. I only skim read most of the forum yesterday. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:21 
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Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:27 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


Order 66 disagrees

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:27 
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Pundabaya wrote:
The biggest franchise on the planet

I'm pretty sure that's 7-Eleven.

Unless you mean movie franchises! In which case it's the MCU. And then Harry Potter.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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MaliA wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


Order 66 disagrees


Well played.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:42 
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KovacsC wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


Order 66 disagrees


Well played.


NOT THE YOUNGLINGS!

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:50 
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EA appear to be recanting and have announced a ban on all real world purchases from the game. You can’t use money to buy upgrades.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:11 
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Wow.

Rumblings that Disney might have got directly involved, and also that the Belgian government are investigating if the lootbox system should be classified and regulated as gambling.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin ... 53f1551d64

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/166 ... removed-ea


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:28 
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Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after we’ve made changes to the game.


Translation:

Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after all this fucking whining has stopped and you've all bought the game anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:33 
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Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:43 
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Bamba wrote:
Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after we’ve made changes to the game.


Translation:

Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after all this fucking whining has stopped and you've all bought the game anyway.


I always suspected that the games in the revival were easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

I haven't seen anyone coming out in favour of the original system. I suppose that makes sense. Those that were happy, were playing the game :)


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.


Buh? You want to be exploited?

Takes all sorts, I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:17 
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Bad Girl

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I think this is absolutely brilliant. Consumer Power! It probably won’t change the system too much and predatory loot boxes alwill return in some form but other publishers will take note of this shit show.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:24 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.


There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:26 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:37 
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Satsuma wrote:
I think this is absolutely brilliant. Consumer Power! It probably won’t change the system too much and predatory loot boxes alwill return in some form but other publishers will take note of this shit show.


The problem is almost everyone i know play shitty predatory games, and they don't care. They don't care about indie gaming or anything more pure. They'd rather play FIFA ultimate team or those horrible Star Wars and Marvel mobile games. These systems with lootboxes and grinding are made to be addictive and they work. Unless some there's some law stomping on these practices, it won't change any time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:41 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

Image

That’s so perfect in the way he points up towards the quoted text.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:42 
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That should be made as a single click insert on all forums. And Twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:14 
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https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/ ... nope-nope/

Wow, Ars gave it an absolutely shoeing. And not just about the economy stuff either.

Quote:
One example: at every respawn, players land on the map in a group of four, but BFII does a poor job communicating how those squads could or should work together beyond "fight together for more battle points." (Battle points (BP) build up throughout a given match and are spent solely within combat to temporarily access higher-level characters and vehicles.)

For instance, should squadmates defend or buff each other in specific ways? The few powers that dole out valuable assists—like shields and "leadership" shouts—give zero rewards. It's also unclear during combat when those "doubled" bonuses actually accrue. And unlike Battlefield, BFII fighters can't have a leader "point" to a particular objective or zone and receive bonuses or boosts for focusing on it. The result: you quickly feel like a lone wolf out there, and the class-specific trappings lose importance.

Without those organic nudges, the online game, in practice, melts down to murder-hallways. This is, in part, because of some ho-hum level designs that encourage boring, non-strategic play, but also because players rack up more BPs when they put bullets into their foes. BPs drive your ability to temporarily climb into an X-wing, a TIE fighter, a walker, or the shoes of a legendary Star Wars character like Chewbacca, Yoda, Darth Maul, or Emperor Palpatine. Everybody wants to do that!

...

When players hop into a flying craft, either during specific BP-fueled moments on Galactic Assault maps or during the dedicated, ships-only Starfighter Assault mode, the feeling at first is nothing but awesome. DICE's Frostbite engine does a wonder with richly detailed spaceships, ridiculous draw distances, and probably-not-scientifically-accurate lighting effects.

The mode rarely surpasses that first-blush wonder, however, with incredibly mild control and attack options for each ship. These just aren't satisfying dogfights beyond basic, solid arcade-level thrills. Evasive maneuvers like loop-de-loops are practically impossible, and your best hope is to unlock the correct evasion-minded Star Cards through the course of gameplay. Meanwhile, when you board a flying craft during Galactic Assault battles, the results are weird. You don't get any special flight-specific objectives while you're up there, and many of the ships have nothing in the way of ground-specific attacks or perks to help with the objectives on the ground. You're mostly up there trying to awkwardly hit ground targets (with no radar system to help) and trading fire with enemies who made the same foolish BP purchase as you.

...

The speed at which cards are doled out in the course of standard gameplay is agonizingly slow. You'll need to play 7-9 matches to earn enough of BFII's "credits" currency to afford the most expensive, 4,000-credit loot boxes, which then contain a mix of unique Star Cards, credits, and crafting parts. (I break down the game's pukey soup of currencies and other economical issues here, but we're already in bad-news territory when I have to direct you to a freaking glossary to understand what's going on.)

...

This sucks from a sheer gameplay perspective, in which you can expect a higher-card player to do things like regenerate health faster and have wider grenade radii. But it also sucks from a "welcome to BFII" perspective because average battles play out like an advertisement for the game you wish you were playing. As I've previously said, good multiplayer shooters with progression systems are at least kind enough to set new players somewhere near their mathematical maximum. You eventually unlock alternate styles and options, which typically keep the game fresh. But, in practice, BFII taunts players with a severe gap between "one tier, one card" and "three near-max cards" players.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:37 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.

Not everyone has the time to grind their way through a game. There's nothing new about the loot system in BFII, babies are just crying because it's Star Wars (and EA, to an extent). Now they think they're fucking crusaders or something, when in reality nothing - nothing - is going to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:52 
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Grim... wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.

Not everyone has the time to grind their way through a game. There's nothing new about the loot system in BFII, babies are just crying because it's Star Wars (and EA, to an extent). Now they think they're fucking crusaders or something, when in reality nothing - nothing - is going to change.


I'd rather prefer for there to be no grind at all. Level multiplayer battle field, and that. (AFAIK, current multiplayer darling Pubg has no such game play unlocks, only outfits. This is a better system)


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