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Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
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Author:  lasermink [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:25 ]
Post subject:  Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
So, this article is doing the rounds, making a rather good case for why it is imperative to get off the Facebook train, right now.

I am a hair's breadth away away from deleting my Facebook account, but I thought I'd like to hear some of the more knowledgeable and coolheaded people on here first. Is it just hyperbole and panic mongering? Or is it all true? Are we doomed? Etc.
Author:  Achilles [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
..........................................
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
As a counterpoint: meh.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Also meh. Of course if proven that Insurance companies are using my Facebook (or indeed Gmail, Twitter, Linked in, any other online or non online account or information available) to rate my premiums then maybe I'll change my mind. Also, the general rule of 'Don't be a dick' should be better heeded.

That aside, I've at various points considered disabling my Facebook account for an undetermined for a break and a clearout. I don't doubt that I'd return after a period of time, albeit potentially through a different account. This nearly came to pass last year but Facebook suddenly became an invaluable communication tool. That moment has largely passed, so back to considering it.
Author:  myp [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
I see Facebook as a necessary evil. I tried quitting a number of years ago, but I missed out on a number of social functions and with some people it really is the only way to keep in contact, especially as I don't particularly enjoy phone calls.

Companies like Google do all the same creepy stuff, but luckily there are alternatives to their services that don't require all my friends and family to be using them as well.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Also, cross-threading for a while, the reference to Facebook and the remember to vote button, and the upcoming election may actually make that decision more likely. It is frustrating enough when swathes of people are inadvertently liking Britain First, depressing when they start to talk like them.
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 13:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
...Post on Beex ;)
Author:  lasermink [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Those are all separate things. The problem is, through various means and deals, Facebook can just about track all of those these days, if some people are to be believed.
Author:  KovacsC [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
I got bored half way though reading it
Author:  myp [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Most of those are separate entities and have stringent privacy policies that only allow use of your personal information for the task they are designed for.
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Future Warrior wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Most of those are separate entities and have stringent privacy policies that only allow use of your personal information for the task they are designed for.


That had no bearing on the information being taken via prism and the like.
Author:  Bamba [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
Future Warrior wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Most of those are separate entities and have stringent privacy policies that only allow use of your personal information for the task they are designed for.


That had no bearing on the information being taken via prism and the like.


Which is a separate issue entirely, you can't possibly be arguing that they're the same thing?
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Bamba wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Future Warrior wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Most of those are separate entities and have stringent privacy policies that only allow use of your personal information for the task they are designed for.


That had no bearing on the information being taken via prism and the like.


Which is a separate issue entirely, you can't possibly be arguing that they're the same thing?


How is it a separate issue? The issue is about being tracked online, dropping off Facebook will stop Facebook doing it, but you'll still be tracked. Either go off grid or accept it.
Author:  markg [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
The issue is about being tracked online by anyone willing to pay for the data. Prism was about the security services. Of course it's a different issue.
Author:  Cras [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
I'm more nervous of the security services putting two and two together from my online behaviour, getting five, and putting me on a terrorist watch list than I am of companies paying for the data, getting five, and trying to sell me half price bic ladyshaves.
Author:  Bamba [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 14:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Future Warrior wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Most of those are separate entities and have stringent privacy policies that only allow use of your personal information for the task they are designed for.


That had no bearing on the information being taken via prism and the like.


Which is a separate issue entirely, you can't possibly be arguing that they're the same thing?


How is it a separate issue? The issue is about being tracked online, dropping off Facebook will stop Facebook doing it, but you'll still be tracked. Either go off grid or accept it.


So because the US government might compel online services to give up your information you should just accept whatever uses a private company want to put your data to? That just gibberish.
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
I guess I don't get someone can be precious about their online privacy enough to be outraged at Facebook, yet ignore other ways their privacy is broken on a daily basis. :shrug:

Either you care about online privacy and go off grid, or you don't, so you might as well stay on Facebook as it will make bugger all difference to anything that matters. All the scaremongering in that article about laws changing etc... Will happen regardless of you being on Facebook or not, the only thing stopping Facebook will change, is targeted advertising.
Author:  TheVision [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
I'm not on Facebook and I honestly don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.
Author:  MaliA [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
TheVision wrote:
I'm not on Facebook and I honestly don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.


Heh. This is kinda like the "I don't own a TV" for the 21st century, isn't it? :)
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Bamba wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Future Warrior wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Facebook is tracking me and invading my privacy! They shout,while they:

Pay with their credit card
Collect points on their storecard
Send their emails
Send their texts
Upload their photos to the cloud
Use their gps
Use their online banking
Access their voicemail
Pay their utility bills
Vote
Etc...

Most of those are separate entities and have stringent privacy policies that only allow use of your personal information for the task they are designed for.


That had no bearing on the information being taken via prism and the like.


Which is a separate issue entirely, you can't possibly be arguing that they're the same thing?


How is it a separate issue? The issue is about being tracked online, dropping off Facebook will stop Facebook doing it, but you'll still be tracked. Either go off grid or accept it.


So because the US government might compel online services to give up your information you should just accept whatever uses a private company want to put your data to? That just gibberish.


Accept was the wrong way to say it.

You can get off Facebook, you don't have to be on it, but the only thing that will make a difference t, is targeted advertising.
All the stuff in the article about government and law changing etc... All the scaremongering stuff. Being on Facebook will make no difference in the slightest.
Author:  Bamba [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
I guess I don't get someone can be precious about their online privacy enough to be outraged at Facebook, yet ignore other ways their privacy is broken on a daily basis.


How do you know they're ignoring everything else? It's possible to be annoyed at two different but related things at the same time. The Prism thing is not only separate but it's largely outwith people's control whereas the Facebook thing they can do something about. So an article urging them to change is constructive no matter what else is happening in the world. Also, ironically, the stuff the Prism programme has been up to is now known due to the high profile coverage of the Snowden leaks whereas people might not actually be aware of what Facebook is doing with their data.

This whole idea you're presenting that there's no middle ground between going completely off the grid vs knowlingly bending over to take a shafting from every organisation in the world is just weird.
Author:  myp [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Bamba wrote:
This whole idea you're presenting that there's no middle ground between going completely off the grid vs knowlingly bending over to take a shafting from every organisation in the world is just weird.

:this:
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Future Warrior wrote:
Bamba wrote:
This whole idea you're presenting that there's no middle ground between going completely off the grid vs knowlingly bending over to take a shafting from every organisation in the world is just weird.

:this:


I'm responding to the article, not what I think about Facebook, which considering this thread was about the article, isn't such a strange thing... The article is saying that you need to get off Facebook to protect yourself from giving details of your private conversations to governments and the like. I'm saying being on Facebook or not has no bearing on that.
Author:  GazChap [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
You can get off Facebook, you don't have to be on it, but the only thing that will make a difference t, is targeted advertising.

And, as you say, given how many other websites are tracking people these days, it probably won't make that much of a difference to that!
Author:  asfish [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Does all this stuff apply to all Facebook usage scenarios?

I have an account and really just use it to see what other people do, we have a NCT private group (or maybe not!) that is the main way everyone arranges social stuff so sort of stuck on that really

I'm thinking the less activity the less stuff there is to track? So the people who post every time they go anywhere or have a coffee must generate more data then maybe I do??
Author:  lasermink [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
asfish wrote:
Does all this stuff apply to all Facebook usage scenarios?

I have an account and really just use it to see what other people do, we have a NCT private group (or maybe not!) that is the main way everyone arranges social stuff so sort of stuck on that really

I'm thinking the less activity the less stuff there is to track? So the people who post every time they go anywhere or have a coffee must generate more data then maybe I do??

Every webpage with a "like" button basically has a line of communication directly to Facebook. If you're logged into Facebook at the same time as visiting such a page, Facebook knows you were there. And that's just the simplest and most obvious example.
Author:  asfish [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
lasermink wrote:
asfish wrote:
Does all this stuff apply to all Facebook usage scenarios?

I have an account and really just use it to see what other people do, we have a NCT private group (or maybe not!) that is the main way everyone arranges social stuff so sort of stuck on that really

I'm thinking the less activity the less stuff there is to track? So the people who post every time they go anywhere or have a coffee must generate more data then maybe I do??

Every webpage with a "like" button basically has a line of communication directly to Facebook. If you're logged into Facebook at the same time as visiting such a page, Facebook knows you were there. And that's just the simplest and most obvious example.


The value of this information must be mixed though? Wasn't there something a few years ago about a big % of accounts of Facebook were fake to generate likes and other stuff?
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
lasermink wrote:
asfish wrote:
Does all this stuff apply to all Facebook usage scenarios?

I have an account and really just use it to see what other people do, we have a NCT private group (or maybe not!) that is the main way everyone arranges social stuff so sort of stuck on that really

I'm thinking the less activity the less stuff there is to track? So the people who post every time they go anywhere or have a coffee must generate more data then maybe I do??

Every webpage with a "like" button basically has a line of communication directly to Facebook. If you're logged into Facebook at the same time as visiting such a page, Facebook knows you were there. And that's just the simplest and most obvious example.


That's what the article says, but if you read the source article it links to, to support that, it doesn't say anything of the sort.
As far as I can tell, just visiting a page with a like button on isn't enough to be tracked, you need to actually press the like button.
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 15:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
The way the like API works it certainly could be aware of the site it was on without being pressed.
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Grim... wrote:
The way the like API works it certainly could be aware of the site it was on without being pressed.


It would be aware of the site it was on, but not the user who was on the site, until they actually interacted with it in some way. It's just static HTML isn't it? It doesn't make a call to the facebook cookie on page load as far as I can tell?
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Some comments sections have you automatically logged into facebook with your profile photo and name there alongside a (ready to be completed) text box. So there may be a link.
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Trooper wrote:
Grim... wrote:
The way the like API works it certainly could be aware of the site it was on without being pressed.


It would be aware of the site it was on, but not the user who was on the site, until they actually interacted with it in some way.

No, it totally would know.

Quote:
It's just static HTML isn't it? It doesn't make a call to the facebook cookie on page load as far as I can tell?

It loads the Facebook API, which can do what it likes.
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
The code:
Code:
<div id="fb-root"></div>
<script>(function(d, s, id) {
  var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];
  if (d.getElementById(id)) return;
  js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id;
  js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_GB/sdk.js#  =1&appId=157494137757393&version=v2.0";
  fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);
}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>

<div class="fb-like" data-href="https://developers.facebook.com/docs/plugins/" data-layout="standard" data-action="like" data-show-faces="true" data-share="true"></div>


So it loads and runs the JS from #xfbml=1&appId=157494137757393&version=v2.0">http://connect.facebook.net/en_GB/sdk.j ... rsion=v2.0 .
Author:  Cras [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
And because the JS is from the facebook domain, it can read your cookie happily without XSS problems.
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Ah, there are different versions of the button, this was the code I was looking at (and what I put on my website way back when)

Code:
<iframe src="//www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fdevelopers. .com%2Fdocs%2Fplugins%2F&amp; width&amp;layout=standard&amp;action=like&amp ;show_faces=true&amp;share =true&amp;height=80" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" style="border :none; overflow:hidden; height:80px;" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
That can still load whatever it likes from that URL, though.

And getting access to the parent of an iframe is as easy as `top.document`.
Author:  Trooper [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 16:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Learn something new everyday, and all that :)
Author:  Jem [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 17:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Meh. Facebook is the least of my worries when it comes to privacy online.

If I were the a tinfoil hat wearing paranoid nut I'd be more worried about Google. Given that I send all my email through them, store my docs with them, use an android phone; not to mention the ubiquity of Google Analytics and the very intimate searches I've performed via the search engine itself.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 17:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
You're saying that I was technically correct, right?
Author:  myp [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 20:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Jem wrote:
Meh. Facebook is the least of my worries when it comes to privacy online.

If I were the a tinfoil hat wearing paranoid nut I'd be more worried about Google. Given that I send all my email through them, store my docs with them, use an android phone; not to mention the ubiquity of Google Analytics and the very intimate searches I've performed via the search engine itself.

It's only tinfoil hat paranoia if it's outlandish unproven conspiracy theories. Lawsuits have shown time and again that Google play fast and loose with your data - no matter how many useful services they have, their bread and butter is targeted advertising and selling of data, like Facebook. Their users are the product.
Author:  Achilles [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 22:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
..........................................
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 23:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Imagevia Imgflip Meme Maker
Author:  Achilles [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 23:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
..........................................
Author:  Curiosity [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 0:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
This entire thread is fucked for mobile users by the stupidly long links.

Sort it out you amateurs.
Author:  MaliA [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Cobracure wrote:

I know humanity is fucked, sort of hoping for a big flu virus now, its the only way to be sure.


Bullshit. People are living longer, are considerably less likely to meet a violent end, have a higher quality of life and more access to medicines than ever before. Bowling scores are up, mini golf scores are down.
Author:  DavPaz [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Excellent!
Author:  miki [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
MaliA wrote:
Bullshit. People are living longer, are considerably less likely to meet a violent end, have a higher quality of life and more access to medicines than ever before. Bowling scores are up, mini golf scores are down.

:this:
Author:  myp [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Imagevia Imgflip Meme Maker

Image
Author:  Jem [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 13:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Get Your Loved Ones Off Facebook
Future Warrior wrote:
Jem wrote:
Meh. Facebook is the least of my worries when it comes to privacy online.

If I were the a tinfoil hat wearing paranoid nut I'd be more worried about Google. Given that I send all my email through them, store my docs with them, use an android phone; not to mention the ubiquity of Google Analytics and the very intimate searches I've performed via the search engine itself.

It's only tinfoil hat paranoia if it's outlandish unproven conspiracy theories. Lawsuits have shown time and again that Google play fast and loose with your data - no matter how many useful services they have, their bread and butter is targeted advertising and selling of data, like Facebook. Their users are the product.


I'll be honest, my post was mostly just a set up so people could make a joke out of my intimate searches.

But OK :p
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