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| Political Banter and Debate Thread https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024 |
Page 199 of 288 |
| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Did they? Been in a meeting for the past hour. Honestly, I turn my back on the country for 60 minutes... |
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| Author: | markg [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Mr Russell wrote: This is where the FPTP voting system will fuck it all up. There will be people like me who would vote Green or Lib Dem, but just to make sure the Conservatives don't get in I will need a tactical Labour vote. If we had a different system then we could vote for who the heck we wanted to, and actually stand a chance of ousting the Conservatives. As it is, they'll get more seats as people's votes get split between the opposing parties in each constituency. Any system has its drawbacks but one where most people vote way left of the Tory party's current incarnation but what we get as a result is decades of the cunts is definitely fucked. But it's not going to change any time soon so fuck it. |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
In a vacuum, her reasoning is fairly sound. Quote: "In recent weeks Labour have threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union. The Liberal Democrats said they want to grind the business of government to a standstill. The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain's membership of the European Union. And un-elected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way." "If we do not hold a general election now, their political game playing will continue." I mean, we're not in a vacuum, and so we know that every word of that as a reasoning is abject bollocks, but, otherwise it is fairly sound. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Mrs May wrote: The country is coming together Kindly go and fuck yourself. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Hmph. Uncharacteristic ungentlemanly conduct there, but I don't like being told that I or my peers feel something we don't. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I'd normally be excited at an election (for me, a General Election is like a World Cup Final) but I'm feeling a sense of dread about this. For once I'm a single issue voter: if you're pro-Brexit, I'm not interested.* On the plus side: possibly the last ever General Election to a Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland so we'd better give the old Union a jolly good send off. *My constituency has been Tory for centuries, but it's an important gesture. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: Hmph. Uncharacteristic ungentlemanly conduct there, but I don't like being told that I or my peers feel something we don't. Incredibly offensive, isn't it? |
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| Author: | Nik [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: Kern wrote: Hmph. Uncharacteristic ungentlemanly conduct there, but I don't like being told that I or my peers feel something we don't. Incredibly offensive, isn't it?  It's like she thinks that because a narrow majority voted for brexit, we all now think it's a great idea and not a huge, looming, long-term disaster. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:47 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Three weeks isn't a long timeframe. I wonder if they'll actually publish a new manifesto, or whether they'll actually have the gall to use the 2015 manifesto that states they support membership of the single market. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Go on Jeremy, here's your chance to seize the initiative, build a broad anti-Tory coalition on the major issue of the day and overthrow the Tories. Quote: Labour will be offering the country an effective alternative to a government that has failed to rebuild the economy, delivered falling living standards and damaging cuts to our schools and NHS. Oh dear. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I blame the patriarchy |
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| Author: | Morte [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Oh dear god, Brexit, Trump and now this...time to chuck out the TV and all the radios and really get to work on that alcoholism for the next couple of months. |
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| Author: | zaphod79 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Stu's take on it : https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-end-of-sanity/ |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
zaphod79 wrote: Stu's take on it : https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-end-of-sanity/ Most sensible thing he's written in a long time. I agree with all of it |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:04 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
DavPaz wrote: zaphod79 wrote: Stu's take on it : https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-end-of-sanity/ Most sensible thing he's written in a long time. I agree with all of it Now I feel dirty. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:04 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Apart from "how to read a pie chart". |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I don't think that's necessarily true that Labour have no seats left to lose. They could easily lose, say, Eltham, where Clive Efford has had 4% and 6% leads over the Tories. There will likely be voters defecting from Lab to Lib, and from UKIP to Con. That could easily see a 7% swing, and it isn't the most marginal seat in the country. Some lost seats would likely go to LDs (Cambridge would be a shock to not flip, IMO), but the only way is most definitely not up. The last three by-elections have all gone terribly for them. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Scenario: Conservatives underestimate Remain Backlash. Labour rally from the polls but not to 2015 levels SNP sweep Scotland Lib Dems take a surprising amount of seats Farage becomes an MP It turns out that the tally of votes leaves the Tories short of a majority (unlikely, but this is just for fun). They can't even quite get there with their usual chums, and the LDs refuse to form a government unless Brexit is stopped or made very soft. May (or whomever) offers SNP an immediate referendum in return for their backing on Brexit and austerity. Now there's a fun thing. |
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| Author: | Nik [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
That'd be the West Lothian Question squared. |
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| Author: | Squirt [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
If I were the Lib Dems I'd full on double down on the anti brexit policy. Big chunk of pro EU Labour voters they might pick up. |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Mr Dave wrote: Two hours of pointing and laughing at a picture of Jeremy Corbyn Looks like I was right, except it's 2 or so months. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 13:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
This is before constituency boundary changes, too, so that excuse disappears for Labour. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 13:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Squirt wrote: If I were the Lib Dems I'd full on double down on the anti brexit policy. Big chunk of pro EU Labour voters they might pick up. They're most definitely doing this. I'm annoyed at our system. In my constituency, the last election was a straight Lab/Con fight, with Lab winning by a bit. I would prefer to vote LD, with both the view that you should vote for who you want to win, and that in future elections if more people do that then over time it won't be a straight fight in all those constituencies. But I feel that the seat is a potential Con win, and I really don't want May to have a massive majority (despite the potential that she would use that to actually move more moderate on Brexit). But I also don't want to really support Corbyn's brand of spectacular incompetence. But I also do lean left, and would like to see a moderate, centrist type government, with some more leftist ideals in there. At the moment I'm probably going to join the LDs, maybe even offer to help in areas they can win, whilst voting Labour. Egad. My MP is mostly a sensible chap and has voted a lot that I agree with, though he usually follows the party line including on Brexit votes and mass data surveillance, ID cards and other illiberal nonsense. |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 13:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Not a chance of my constituency going anywhere other than Conservative. As much as I'd like to think a large number of LD votes (as opposed to seats) may influence the EU discussions, I very much doubt that they will. This may actually be the first election that I don't vote in protest. The argument that people have died so that I can vote, or that others outside democracies envy my ability to vote doesn't hold true here, on the grounds that any protest non-vote is against the nature of the election itself, as opposed to those who are contesting it. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 13:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Go to the hustings and make life difficult for the candidates. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 14:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Green it is, then. |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 15:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Thinking about it, there is I suppose a possibility that the bigger win for the Tories is in Scotland, not in the rest of the UK - a as noted previously, a lot of current labour seats are dyed red. Assuming that the SNP go on an independence (under 50% in favour at the last referendum) and Anti Brexit (still only 60% support) ticket, then there could theoretically be some significant leakage out of the SNP back to conservative, dependent upon where the various Venn sets interlock* *I have no idea |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 15:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
For Scotland, my take is that a Tory recovery will come down to whether people are attracted to them as a party, or to Ruth Davidson as an anti-SNP/pro-Union leader. Off the top of my head, I don't know if the Prime Minister is as popular up there as she is in the English shires. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 15:49 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Hi , Cavey! |
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| Author: | zaphod79 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 15:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: Green it is, then. Lib Dem or manually write in Kern for me |
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| Author: | Malc [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
It was always going to be between LibDems and Green for me (probably Green), but the reality is that the Conservatives have never lost this seat, although the region did vote to remain, so I'm hoping there is some chink of light... I guess the council elections are going to be seen as a dry run? |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
zaphod79 wrote: MaliA wrote: Green it is, then. Lib Dem or manually write in Kern for me Wait....you live in the Shire too? |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:04 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Blimey, Malc! That is one safe seat! |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Liberal Democrat unless the Labour candidate is very very convincing (and doesn't look like my ex as happened last time). This is the Banbury constituency, for reference. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Wait - Umpire Dickie Bird? |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
THE Dickie Bird? From Cricket? |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Oh, apparently not. Dull. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Not sure that confusion placed him at a disadvantage. |
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| Author: | Zardoz [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: Wait - Umpire Dickie Bird? How's that? |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 16:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Zardoz wrote: Cras wrote: Wait - Umpire Dickie Bird? How's that? Googly down the leg side. |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 17:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
DavPaz wrote: zaphod79 wrote: Stu's take on it : https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-end-of-sanity/ Most sensible thing he's written in a long time. I agree with all of it It's remarkably coherent and well written. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 17:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: Hi , Cavey! Man, what a day to be busy with work. Looks like Theresa's taken my advice, you read it here first, folks. Shame to waste a Corbyn after all.  EDIT: If Stu's saying this is "galactic scale stupid" and/or "the Tories have nothing to gain" [er, apart from perhaps another 100-odd vulnerable seats from an utterly disintegrated, existential crisis-torn Labour Party, as well as an electoral mandate for her premiership and Brexit generally, as under the terms it is now presented, i.e. outwith access to the common market etc.], then I'm even more convinced this is a strategically good move for the Tories? Offhand, I can't think of a more ringing endorsement? Time will tell, huh! 
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| Author: | JBR [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 19:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote: Not a chance of my constituency going anywhere other than Conservative. As much as I'd like to think a large number of LD votes (as opposed to seats) may influence the EU discussions, I very much doubt that they will. This may actually be the first election that I don't vote in protest. The argument that people have died so that I can vote, or that others outside democracies envy my ability to vote doesn't hold true here, on the grounds that any protest non-vote is against the nature of the election itself, as opposed to those who are contesting it. I like the reasoning. This might be my last election in the country, depending on how things go - I don't think I'll leave for good, but if I am based overseas some time soonish, as I currently want to be, I can't imagine I'd try too hard to combine visits with elections. A protest vote of some kind seems to fit well. On the voting/not voting specifically, Finnemore's got you covered (1:55, radio clip): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPNHguA3CWc. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Just listened to the interview with the Prime Minister on Radio 4. It was frustrating and I don't think she was enjoying trying to explain her U-turn on not holding an election. I'm also getting tired by her projection about what Leave voters wanted (sorry, I meant, 'the country), and her continual use of empty generic phrases such as 'the best deal'. Nick Robinson did take her up on that last point, but she didn't develop it. John McDonnell from Labour an hour earlier was just as frustrating, but for different reasons. Labour are probably going to go for a standard schools-and-hospitals approach to shore up their base, but unless they can pin attacks on her, I doubt it's going to work. |
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| Author: | Mr Russell [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
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| Author: | markg [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
And if my auntie had a cock she'd be my uncle! |
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| Author: | MrChris [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
markg wrote: And if my auntie had a cock she'd be my uncle! That's a bit reductively gender normative, Mark. |
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| Author: | devilman [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Of the headlines today, that Daily Mail cover is really unpleasant. I know I should ignore crap like that, but stuff like 'game-playing remoaners' and 'unelected lords' really bugs me. I was at my parents briefly yesterday and they had the news on with May doing her announcement. My parents don't follow politics and vote labour every time without fail, but Mum said she thought May was good, which surprised me. No idea what she's basing that on, as she won't have read anything about her, so maybe she just likes her press conferences. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
devilman wrote: Of the headlines today, that Daily Mail cover is really unpleasant. I know I should ignore crap like that, but stuff like 'game-playing remoaners' and 'unelected lords' really bugs me. Agree. It makes me sick and angry. I sometimes reassure myself by thinking that if they have to resort to name-calling and conspiracy theories it means they know their case is weak, but noble thoughts aren't a match for basically screaming that a large proportion of the public are traitors. Besides, I think Southern Rail are doing a perfectly fine job of sabotaging services without outside help. Arf. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MrChris wrote: markg wrote: And if my auntie had a cock she'd be my uncle! That's a bit reductively gender normative, Mark. Says Mr "Doesn't Even Own Non-white Army Person Paint" 
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