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Political Banter and Debate Thread
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Author:  Cavey [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 15:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gay marriage

Mods, would you be so kind as to split out all the UKIP/political banter into a thread in my name please? ("Cavey's Political Faff" or somesuch :) )

I'm sure Gilly doesn't want all this stuff in her important thread. (Sorry Gilly).

Many thanks. :)

Author:  Cras [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 15:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gay marriage

Certainly.

Author:  Cavey [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 15:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Farage and UKIP

Cheers Cras :)

Is there a way that I can change the thread title myself? May as well make it my repository for all things political (and keep out of other threads in that regard :) )

Author:  Cras [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 16:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Farage and UKIP

Yup, just edit the first post

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 16:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I probably wouldn't advocate for the UK leaving the EU in the much-promised referendum, and I doubt the rest of the country will either. I think the asking of the question is an important demonstration of democracy that would not have happened if not for UKIP. Their relatively minor but widespread support shows the need to have these concerns addressed, even if it ultimately amounts to nothing.

To my mind, in the worst case we'll repatriate a few deferred powers from Brussels and the UK will remind the world it's not a sheep that'll cheerfully go along with the flow, just because that's what the rest of Europe is doing.

I think the public are too ill-informed on the workings of the EU parliament to have a strong enough opinion on it either way. Ask a man in the street 'What does an MEP do?', and I doubt you'll get a decent answer.

Author:  Kern [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 17:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I have two degrees in politics from ('a university') and even I am uncertain about who is responsible for what. The legislation itself is more or less incomprehensible and the treaties (the EU's constitution) might as well be written in Klingon.
Hate the coalition government all you like, but at least we've a good idea of what's going on, who to lobby, and how to kick them out. I think good accountable government involves the ordinary person being able to answer those questions.

Author:  Cavey [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 18:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Growth in UK's economy 'best in G7' says IMF:

Quote:
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) says the UK economy will be the fastest-growing in the G7 this year.

It says the UK will grow 2.9% in 2014, up from a January estimate of 2.4%, and will see growth of 2.5% in 2015.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935148

Author:  Curiosity [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Shame it's all on artificially inflated London house prices.

In other Political news, how the hell has Maria Miller avoided being barred from Parliament or generally cast adrift? If she was a poor person who had defrauded the country of that much money she's be put in prison.

Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 18:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cavey wrote:
Growth in UK's economy 'best in G7' says IMF:

Quote:
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) says the UK economy will be the fastest-growing in the G7 this year.

It says the UK will grow 2.9% in 2014, up from a January estimate of 2.4%, and will see growth of 2.5% in 2015.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935148


The problem is that very few people are actually feeling any better off, because they're not.

Off the top of my head, real wages are still below where they were in 2008, there are hundreds of thousands of people on zero hour contracts, and god knows how many more 'underemployed' people who are on shitty part time wages when they want more.

You've got housing prices running away again when you've already got a generation who have no hope of ever owning so much as a shoebox, at the time that Osborne unlocks pension funds to unleash an army of buy-to-let pensioners on the country to fuck the housing market up even more.

Even the Torygraph commentators are saying it's the wrong kind of growth, backed up with very little of substance and being built on debt again, largely like Labour did - and a recent budget that pandered directly to the old people most likely to vote for them, and fuck everyone else.

The BoE daren't raise interest rates because they know it'll tip hundreds of thousands of families already on the brink into default and losing their homes, and you've got unprecedented numbers of middle class folks really feeling the pinch.

I'm not saying Labour were much good either, because they weren't, but the Tories are pretty much pulling the same shit again except this time they're beating up on the disabled and the poor whilst they're at it.

Author:  Cavey [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 18:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Curiosity wrote:
Shame it's all on artificially inflated London house prices.


Um, I'd say that's just a *tad* disingenuous, especially considering the start point in May 2010. (And please don't give me the Ed Balls 'we were in growth' spiel mate, I could punch him repeatedly every time he trots that one out... a +c0.1% debt-fuelled, dead man's bounce after an unprecedented c.-10% Depression doesn't constitute "growth", you wide-eyed, red-faced dick).

Quote:
In other Political news, how the hell has Maria Miller avoided being barred from Parliament or generally cast adrift? If she was a poor person who had defrauded the country of that much money she's be put in prison.


Not following to be honest; is this another "fiddling expenses" type thing?

Author:  Cavey [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 18:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

All London house prices...?
UK manufacturing up +4% this last year alone:

Quote:
UK manufacturing output grew by 1% in February from January, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) has said.

The rise - driven by pharmaceuticals, transport equipment, food, beverages and tobacco, - was the biggest since September, and ahead of forecasts.

The year-on-year figure saw output 3.8% higher than in the same month of 2013.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935155

Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 18:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

My summary would be all political parties are basically shit, especially given the limited scope of the active electorate - radical pensioners who'll threaten to withdraw their vote at the merest hint of anything that might inconvenience them a bit, swing voters in a relatively small number of key constituencies, home owners who would probably kill a random stranger if it came down to losing their INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT ASSET or a bit of trivial murder, and so on.

Labour were crap in lots of ways but they did at least tip a large amount of cash into all sorts of social programmes, and weren't so class-warfare brutalist about trampling down the unwashed masses.

The Tories are crap again, except this time they've got that peculiar brand of snobby nastiness about them only that party can conjure up.

And the Lib Dems can burn in hell for enabling it all as far as I'm concerned.

Author:  Curiosity [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 19:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cavey wrote:
All London house prices...?
UK manufacturing up +4% this last year alone:

Quote:
UK manufacturing output grew by 1% in February from January, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) has said.

The rise - driven by pharmaceuticals, transport equipment, food, beverages and tobacco, - was the biggest since September, and ahead of forecasts.

The year-on-year figure saw output 3.8% higher than in the same month of 2013.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935155


Heh. I'm just bitter. They do have an impact though, and are higher now than before the last crash, which doesn't bode well.

There does seem to be some improvement in industry; the question is whether this will translate into anything meaningful for the average chap in the street. I just can't see it happening. Companies doing well will feel stung from the last hit and just funnel profits to shareholders while chasing down expenses and reducing wages by any meaningful measure. So the only people to likely see much benefit will be the already rich, big investors (and pension funds, which they're really gonna need, because that does not look great right now).

Author:  Bobbyaro [ Tue Apr 08, 2014 20:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Kern wrote:
I have two degrees in politics from ('a university') and even I am uncertain about who is responsible for what. The legislation itself is more or less incomprehensible and the treaties (the EU's constitution) might as well be written in Klingon.
Hate the coalition government all you like, but at least we've a good idea of what's going on, who to lobby, and how to kick them out. I think good accountable government involves the ordinary person being able to answer those questions.

I'd just like to say what a good post this is. I have no idea what an MEP does, I am not convinced they are value for money because of that.

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I see that Miller has resigned from the Cabinet (but not as an MP of course; can't stop riding that gravy train).

Her resignation letter, ostensibly blaming the press for it all, it basically shameless.

Author:  sdg [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gay marriage

Curiosity wrote:
Farage is a dick. I think if I was in a pub with him I'd burn the place down. A public schoolboy turned banker turned political leech, siphoning money from the EU and ignoring his actual supposed duties there. His economic policies stop fractionally short of slavery. He's about as far away from a man of the people as it is possible to get.

I'm just watching the documentary on Nigel Farage and re: Europe, what are his actual supposed duties there?!
I'm quite shocked at how little the MEPs can seem to effect things?

It's quite concerning seeing the support the party has mind you. I don't know that I believe that he himself is racist or anything like that and I can see why he appeals to people when he is nothing like the career politicians like Cameron and Miliband but the worrying thing is the views of the general membership of ukip. As well as the total lack of policies and weird hypocrisy of his views on an open global market vs immigration.

Author:  MaliA [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Is there an election soon? A pair of swivel eyed loons were flyering outside Leeds station this morning.

Author:  MrChris [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

UKIP, was it?

Author:  MaliA [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Yeah.

Author:  MaliA [ Sat May 10, 2014 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

It has occurred to me that the most efficient (and legal) way to remove the fat prick of the local mp (in private eye every fortnight, too) is for me to join the party and stand in his place. This, however, would be a six year plan.

Author:  Bamba [ Sun May 11, 2014 1:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

So are you actually going to do it? Or is this just some pointless rumination?

Author:  NervousPete [ Sun May 11, 2014 1:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I'm still processing data as they say, but all I can say is that between my time working for the council in benefits and in libraries I haven't had a pay rise at the very least half way to matching inflation since 2007. Boo and indeed urns. I usually get half a percent which means my wages are down about a fifth from what I originally started with.

The only blessing is that I drink less beer as I get older, apparently, and I'm less interested in expensive graphic novels and computer games.

Author:  Mr Russell [ Sun May 11, 2014 9:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Fewer interested.

Author:  MaliA [ Sun May 11, 2014 11:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Bamba wrote:
So are you actually going to do it? Or is this just some pointless rumination?


I'd have to:

1) Join the Tory party
2) Ingratiate myself with them over a period of time
3) Slag off current incumbent to get rid of him
4) Get someone useless in his place

Step 1 is straightforward, step 2 should be easy being a protected minority and everything, step 3 would be really hard and I'd have ot do step 4 myself. that, and I'm pushed for time.

Author:  markg [ Sun May 11, 2014 11:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Assassinate Osborne and assume his identity.

Author:  Kern [ Mon May 12, 2014 15:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

So far, only UKIP and the Tories have sent me any material begging for my vote in the forthcoming European elections. It's a PR vote (albeit on the crappy closed list system) so the other parties should be sending me stuff. Haven't had any canvassers yet either. Boo.

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon May 12, 2014 15:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I have received from UKIP and The Greens.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon May 12, 2014 15:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

We haven't heard a dickybird from anyone; I think the presumption is everyone will vote Tory by default.
Probably quite a safe presumption, though wouldn't be surprised to find a few UKIP converts knocking about. Our MP is Chancellor of the Exchequer...

Author:  Squirt [ Mon May 12, 2014 16:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

We've only had UKIP stuff I think, and the majority of posters and flyers I've seen about have been UKIP. If the UKIP win here, the other parties only have themselves to blame - UKIP have been able to present their point with no one answering back.

Author:  Anonymous X [ Mon May 12, 2014 16:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I'm a Labour member, and all I've seen from them is a letter asking members like me for more cash donations! Useless twats, with a campaign push they could easily become one of the larger parties in the PES faction this term. I really despair with how inept they are. (Ironically, I got a targeted mail shot from the Tories.)

Author:  Grim... [ Mon May 12, 2014 17:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I've had something from UKIP. Handily my dustbin is very close to my letter box.

Author:  DavPaz [ Mon May 12, 2014 19:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

All major parties have darkened my doormat.

And UKIP

Author:  Malc [ Mon May 12, 2014 20:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I have had UKIP and the Conservatives put leaflets through my door. I think I have decided to vote Greens this year.

As I think they align most closely with my views.

Malc

Author:  Dr Lave [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

This post on how they (all) lie on their leaflets is ace.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... -elections

Author:  KovacsC [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Has any one heard of Britain First, I seem to be getting a lot of there stuff on FB. It seems to be not so closet racism and xenophobia.

Author:  Cras [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

That's an outright shocker with a name like that.

Author:  KovacsC [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cras wrote:
That's an outright shocker with a name like that.


I did not say I was shocked, I think I am disappointed with all my friends posting their stuff.

Author:  Malc [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

KovacsC wrote:
Has any one heard of Britain First, I seem to be getting a lot of there stuff on FB. It seems to be not so closet racism and xenophobia.


Only recently, a few friends (and even an uncle :( ) have posted stuff on facebook, which on the surface might be considered patriotic, but on watching their introdcutory video, they are essentially the BNP as fa as I can make out

Malc

Author:  KovacsC [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Malc wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Has any one heard of Britain First, I seem to be getting a lot of there stuff on FB. It seems to be not so closet racism and xenophobia.


Only recently, a few friends (and even an uncle :( ) have posted stuff on facebook, which on the surface might be considered patriotic, but on watching their introdcutory video, they are essentially the BNP as fa as I can make out

Malc


This is what was niggling me. Reading some of the comments on their FB page is disturbing to say the least.

Author:  markg [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

They're the new EDL I think. The rise of the right is so depressing. Was sat outside a pub the other day and there were a bunch of braying posh racist cunts spouting some right shit. I think they're all feeling emboldened right now by the success of UKIP etc.

Author:  Malc [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

The EDL at least said they were fine with Black people who were born in the UK. Britain First is complaining, amongst other things about non white children being born iout numbering white children being born in some parts of the UK

Malc

Author:  Kern [ Tue May 13, 2014 10:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I find it hard to block or defriend someone on sinister Facebook just because they reposted one of those links. I tend to remove them from my newsfeed though, especially if the block on the referring page doesn't work. I tend to have a strict 'no modern politics' rule on that site, except for when I occasionally break it or the article is insightful or funny.

I get amused by some US teenagers I know, who are based in the mid-west and south, posting anti-gun control cartoons and comments, if only because it's a huge cultural difference. Disappointed that one or two re-enactors from the same area I respect keep sharing 'Answers in Genesis' stuff.

Author:  Trooper [ Tue May 13, 2014 11:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I've never blocked anyone due to their views, as regardless of how much I agree or disagree, I have no problem with them voicing their view. I may think they are a cunt because of that, but better to know for sure than to wonder...
I have muted people on FB for constant and repeated inanity however :D

Author:  markg [ Tue May 13, 2014 11:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Fuck that. I wouldn't knowingly call any racist cunt a "friend" even if the term was being used as loosely as it is on Facebook.

Author:  Trooper [ Tue May 13, 2014 11:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I guess it depends on how you use facebook. I don't use it as purely for friends, I have a subset of people on there that I class as friends, but the rest are just people I know in some form.

Author:  KovacsC [ Tue May 13, 2014 11:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Trooper wrote:
I guess it depends on how you use facebook. I don't use it as purely for friends, I have a subset of people on there that I class as friends, but the rest are just people I know in some form.


Yes I have all levels of settigns for folks

Author:  KovacsC [ Tue May 13, 2014 11:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Quote:
Jim Dowson founded Britain First in 2011 as a rival to the British National Party after several senior members of the BNP fell out with its leader Nick Griffin. Dowson is currently on bail awaiting trial in Northern Ireland for his alleged role in helping to organise many of the recent Union flag protests at Belfast City Hall


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 34812.html

Author:  Anonymous X [ Tue May 13, 2014 14:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I cut out anyone from my social life, online or off, immediately if they're into xenophobia or xenophobic movements, for understandable reasons. That kind of shit makes life unpleasant. Unfortunately, that kind of thing has become a lot more common over the last few years.

Author:  MaliA [ Thu May 15, 2014 8:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Clegg way out of his depth on R4 this morning. Abysmal.

Author:  markg [ Thu May 15, 2014 8:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

No surprise there, he's been frantically doggy paddling for the last four years.

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