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| Political Banter and Debate Thread https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024 |
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| Author: | KovacsC [ Wed Aug 31, 2022 14:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: My solution is the office shower as it is a small electric heated tank so I use the Warhead method, then sit in a towel to work. That is a nice mental image.. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Aug 31, 2022 14:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
KovacsC wrote: MaliA wrote: My solution is the office shower as it is a small electric heated tank so I use the Warhead method, then sit in a towel to work. That is a nice mental image.. Even better on Teams. |
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| Author: | Warhead [ Wed Aug 31, 2022 22:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: KovacsC wrote: MaliA wrote: My solution is the office shower as it is a small electric heated tank so I use the Warhead method, then sit in a towel to work. That is a nice mental image.. Even better on Teams. For a moment, I forgot you work from home. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: "Fuck the lot of you" this sounds like. Still true. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
So exciting to be in the last hours of the worst prime minister of my lifetime, and the forthcoming future worst prime minister. |
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| Author: | KovacsC [ Fri Sep 02, 2022 13:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: So exciting to be in the last hours of the worst prime minister of my lifetime, and the forthcoming future worst prime minister. I feel a hold my beer moment coming... |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Fri Sep 02, 2022 13:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: So exciting to be in the last hours of the worst prime minister of my lifetime, and the forthcoming future worst prime minister. How long do you give it before we can comfortably reset the bar on that one? |
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| Author: | Malc [ Fri Sep 02, 2022 13:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I dunno, but I think the last PM that was better than the previous one, was probably John Major (you could make an argument for Gordon Brown I guess, but he didn't win a GE, so I don't consider him 100% legit). It can't go on for ever can it? |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Liz Truss and Laura Kuessenberg from the BBC look very much alike |
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| Author: | Malc [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Malc wrote: I dunno, but I think the last PM that was better than the previous one, was probably John Major (you could make an argument for Gordon Brown I guess, but he didn't win a GE, so I don't consider him 100% legit). It can't go on for ever can it? I can't believe how I thought Major was better Blair when I wrote that I completely forgot about him (it wasn't a critique on how Blair was the devil). I think that somehow makes it even worse, that the best PM in my life time is one so flawed as Blair. |
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| Author: | JBR [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Phew! I figured you'd just omitted him. He lives in an odd spot, even for those of us who don't think he's the devil: compared to any of the recent ones, he's articulate, informed, obviously more competent (and flawed etc). When I think in isolation of good PMs, though, I automatically go further back (and end up at Attlee - the only PM to have gone to my school. A private school doesn't quite know what to do with him - a house is named after him, and there's a bust in the library, but it wasn't really mentioned otherwise. Maybe they have a bit more pride nowadays). |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Crikey, she’s dense. And not a good public speaker at all. |
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| Author: | JBR [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 13:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Dr Zoidberg wrote: Crikey, she’s dense. And not a good public speaker at all. No discernible talent. |
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| Author: | NervousPete [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 13:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I am, as ever, an equal mixture of horrified and baffled. |
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| Author: | Zardoz [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 13:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I’m betting she’ll be in for less time than May or Johnson. |
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| Author: | RuySan [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 16:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Hi everyone. It's been ages since I've been here. No matter why I've been gone (maybe for another time), these news about the new UK prime minister made me really wish to get an opinion on what british people think about her. I could ask on reddit, but here it's definitely more personal (although probably not a good sample) to do it here. Anyway, we get 3 leaders already who weren't elected through suffrage. Why does this happen? Why doesn't the Queen ask for general elections? Would May, Boris or this one could ever win an election? Also, from what I hear (I usually read the guardian for international news, take that as you will), she an absolute neo-liberal with a penchant for "trickle down economics" bullshit. And doesn't even hide it that much. We're in 2022, how on earth can people still buy into this crap? Is the opposition that terrible in the UK? |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 16:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Meet the new cunt, same as the old cunt. (That's Truss and Johnson btw, not you and Zardoz) |
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| Author: | JBR [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 16:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
RuySan wrote: Hi everyone. It's been ages since I've been here. No matter why I've been gone (maybe for another time), these news about the new UK prime minister made me really wish to get an opinion on what british people think about her. I could ask on reddit, but here it's definitely more personal (although probably not a good sample) to do it here. Anyway, we get 3 leaders already who weren't elected through suffrage. Why does this happen? Why doesn't the Queen ask for general elections? Would May, Boris or this one could ever win an election? Also, from what I hear (I usually read the guardian for international news, take that as you will), she an absolute neo-liberal with a penchant for "trickle down economics" bullshit. And doesn't even hide it that much. We're in 2022, how on earth can people still buy into this crap? Is the opposition that terrible in the UK? The opposition have essentially no power, as it's a parliamentary democracy and the Cons have a large majority (for now). They get blamed for not 'opposing', but no one has ever really done that because of the above system, it's just that after the fact, you can produce a narrative that shows how public opinion changed over time and that changed who is in power etc. Against someone who just ignores that, like Johnson, and leans on his majority, there's little they can do until Con MPs decide they have had enough. Or more accurately, decide that their future is better served by voting against the government. And that is a very slow process, if it ever really happens. The Queen also has no power, she's just a figurehead, with various arcane mechanisms that people get excited over, but that aren't used (though if Johnson/Cummings were in her position, they'd be pulling every lever). I suppose if she were young and enthusiastic, she might make a suggestion behind closed doors. And Truss is about as daft a character as you can get. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 18:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
The new cabinet will be hilarious and horrific |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 18:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
RuySan wrote: Hi everyone. It's been ages since I've been here. No matter why I've been gone (maybe for another time), these news about the new UK prime minister made me really wish to get an opinion on what british people think about her. I could ask on reddit, but here it's definitely more personal (although probably not a good sample) to do it here. Anyway, we get 3 leaders already who weren't elected through suffrage. Why does this happen? Why doesn't the Queen ask for general elections? Would May, Boris or this one could ever win an election? In the UK, we don’t actually vote for a prime minister. We just vote for our local member of parliament who is usually a member of one of the main parties. Occasionally an independent candidate will get elected, or one from one of the minor bunch like UKIP. Anyway, assuming there’s a parliamentary majority, the leader of that party gets invited to form a government by the Queen. In practice, we (nearly) all know who the leader is and that’s what people base their decision on, even though it’s not technically what they are voting for. If they then lose the support of their party they can be forced to step down as leader, but their party still has the right to form a new government with their choice of PM. Some of the shenanigans over the last few years have shown that our laws and systems aren’t actually fit for purpose and only work because politicians play by the unwritten rules. A real Trump-like figure here could have caused more havoc than Boris. |
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| Author: | RuySan [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 19:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Dr Zoidberg wrote: RuySan wrote: Hi everyone. It's been ages since I've been here. No matter why I've been gone (maybe for another time), these news about the new UK prime minister made me really wish to get an opinion on what british people think about her. I could ask on reddit, but here it's definitely more personal (although probably not a good sample) to do it here. Anyway, we get 3 leaders already who weren't elected through suffrage. Why does this happen? Why doesn't the Queen ask for general elections? Would May, Boris or this one could ever win an election? In the UK, we don’t actually vote for a prime minister. We just vote for our local member of parliament who is usually a member of one of the main parties. Occasionally an independent candidate will get elected, or one from one of the minor bunch like UKIP. Anyway, assuming there’s a parliamentary majority, the leader of that party gets invited to form a government by the Queen. In practice, we (nearly) all know who the leader is and that’s what people base their decision on, even though it’s not technically what they are voting for. If they then lose the support of their party they can be forced to step down as leader, but their party still has the right to form a new government with their choice of PM. Yes, it's exactly how it works in my country, except for the Monarchy difference. We have a precedent for a President dissolving the parliament for the lack of the legitimacy of the PM (for not being elected). My question is it how it happened 3 times (or 2, don't recall if Theresa May ever went to votes) for people that the majority seem to dislike. I know the Queen isn't expect to act, but if she wanted to dissolve the parliament and ask for general elections, she could, right? |
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| Author: | Cras [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 20:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
If she ever did, it would lead to a constitutional crisis that would very quickly cause the end of the monarchy. What ever it says on paper in theory, our monarchy is ceremonial |
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| Author: | Zardoz [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 21:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Grim... wrote: Meet the new cunt, same as the old cunt. (That's Truss and Johnson btw, not you and Zardoz) Hi x |
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| Author: | Sir Taxalot [ Mon Sep 05, 2022 23:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
RuySan wrote: me really wish to get an opinion on what british people think about her. As a Brit from afar (I left about 12 years ago) my opinion swings between horrified at the State of Things (tm), indifferent, and a feeling of resignation - that this is just how it is and how it will be for a long time. I hope you found this useful and enlightening 
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| Author: | RuySan [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: If she ever did, it would lead to a constitutional crisis that would very quickly cause the end of the monarchy. What ever it says on paper in theory, our monarchy is ceremonial Or what if you ended up with a Bolsonaro or Trump kind of loony doing shit all the time? Would it be so improbable that the Queen, or one of her heirs, dissolve the parliament? Because the theoretically the only advantage of the monarchy is having a stable balancing act (or having more tourism because foreigners think it's cool), but if the head of state never does anything, what's the point? |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
RuySan wrote: Cras wrote: If she ever did, it would lead to a constitutional crisis that would very quickly cause the end of the monarchy. What ever it says on paper in theory, our monarchy is ceremonial Or what if you ended up with a Bolsonaro or Trump kind of loony doing shit all the time? Would it be so improbable that the Queen, or one of her heirs, dissolve the parliament? Because the theoretically the only advantage of the monarchy is having a stable balancing act (or having more tourism because foreigners think it's cool), but if the head of state never does anything, what's the point? Remember, we had a civil war in which the monarchy was defeated and removed. It was only because the winner was puritanical prick that we never went full republic. After Cromwell died, the people decided to let the Royal Family back in with a massive caveat: Remember who is really in charge. This is why when the monarch wants to address Parliament, the doors are ceremoniously slammed in their face. If the monarch tried to exercise their theoretical power, I feel that more than doors would be slamming, pretty quickly. |
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| Author: | Warhead [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
RuySan wrote: ...... opinion on what british people think about her. I could ask on reddit, but here it's definitely more personal (although probably not a good sample) to do it here. For one thing, she's not a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously, nor will she be likely to start quoting rubbish in Latin or references to Greek mythology and will probably not try to use the same kind of stand-up delivery of the infamous 'pork markets' speech. On the other hand, what I've seen in the last few weeks makes me feel that she's lacking in depth and substance. Behind all that, she's a Tory and appears to embrace all their 'fuck the poor, reward the rich' values. But now that she's in the driving seat, she will want to make her mark, so she may try to go rogue but get stymied by the machinery of government and the big donors to the party. She's also inherited a shed load of problems left by the blonde buffoon, so even if she was very able, it's not going to be easy to get us to the sunlit uplands we've been promised. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I mean, she very definitely is a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
DavPaz wrote: RuySan wrote: Cras wrote: If she ever did, it would lead to a constitutional crisis that would very quickly cause the end of the monarchy. What ever it says on paper in theory, our monarchy is ceremonial Or what if you ended up with a Bolsonaro or Trump kind of loony doing shit all the time? Would it be so improbable that the Queen, or one of her heirs, dissolve the parliament? Because the theoretically the only advantage of the monarchy is having a stable balancing act (or having more tourism because foreigners think it's cool), but if the head of state never does anything, what's the point? Remember, we had a civil war in which the monarchy was defeated and removed. It was only because the winner was puritanical prick that we never went full republic. After Cromwell died, the people decided to let the Royal Family back in with a massive caveat: Remember who is really in charge. This is why when the monarch wants to address Parliament, the doors are ceremoniously slammed in their face. If the monarch tried to exercise their theoretical power, I feel that more than doors would be slamming, pretty quickly. CHARLES SECOND KLAXON |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Why do you even have that klaxon? |
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| Author: | Zardoz [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 13:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
His first klaxon broke. |
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| Author: | KovacsC [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 13:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: I mean, she very definitely is a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously A female Boris then.. Is she really the best the Tories can put up? |
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| Author: | Malc [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 14:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
KovacsC wrote: Cras wrote: I mean, she very definitely is a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously A female Boris then.. Is she really the best the Tories can put up? With none of the charisma that Bojo has. Also, I know people are allowed to change their minds, but that she was an anti-Royal Lib-dem in her youth, and a pro EU tory a decade ago, the fact that she has just been sworn in as a brexit loving Tory PM by the Queen is surely a little jarring. (not to mention the flip/flopping nonsense of the leadership campaign. |
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| Author: | nickachu [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 14:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Sir Taxalot wrote: As a Brit from afar (I left about 12 years ago) my opinion swings between horrified at the State of Things (tm), indifferent, and a feeling of resignation - that this is just how it is and how it will be for a long time. As another Brit from afar, I agree. It's shocking reading the news and seeing everything that has gone on, especially the last 3 years or so. Seeing all this stuff about energy prices is wild and you wonder what can anyone do. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 15:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
KovacsC wrote: Cras wrote: I mean, she very definitely is a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously A female Boris then.. Is she really the best the Tories can put up? The 2019 GE was a quiet purge of the Tories. While I've never agreed with their politics they had some sound capable MPs. However loyalty to Boris and Brexit was the only yardstick for standing in 2019. Lots of MPs stood down and basically all the new intake are just brainless yes-men. And the few old guard who remained are fucking idiots (eg IDS) |
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| Author: | KovacsC [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 15:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: KovacsC wrote: Cras wrote: I mean, she very definitely is a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously A female Boris then.. Is she really the best the Tories can put up? The 2019 GE was a quiet purge of the Tories. While I've never agreed with their politics they had some sound capable MPs. However loyalty to Boris and Brexit was the only yardstick for standing in 2019. Lots of MPs stood down and basically all the new intake are just brainless yes-men. And the few old guard who remained are fucking idiots (eg IDS) So basically we are screwed |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Tue Sep 06, 2022 19:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
KovacsC wrote: Cras wrote: KovacsC wrote: Cras wrote: I mean, she very definitely is a bumbling clown who nobody can take seriously A female Boris then.. Is she really the best the Tories can put up? The 2019 GE was a quiet purge of the Tories. While I've never agreed with their politics they had some sound capable MPs. However loyalty to Boris and Brexit was the only yardstick for standing in 2019. Lots of MPs stood down and basically all the new intake are just brainless yes-men. And the few old guard who remained are fucking idiots (eg IDS) So basically we are screwed You would hope there’s only so long that they can carry on blaming the previous government for the problems before the public realise that that’s the Conservatives. If they don’t get a grip on the cost of living, that could come quite quickly. If, as I suspect, Liz does the opposite of what she said during her campaign, freezes utility prices & increases payments to the less well off, they’ll be here for a long time. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Well, here's a Test XI [*] Quote: Prime minister Liz Truss
Deputy prime minister and health secretary Thérèse Coffey Chancellor of the exchequer Kwasi Kwarteng Foreign secretary James Cleverly Home secretary Suella Braverman QC Defence secretary Ben Wallace Justice secretary and lord chancellor Brandon Lewis Chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster, minister for intergovernmental relations and minister for equalities Nadhim Zahawi Leader of the House of Commons and lord president of the council Penny Mordaunt Lord privy seal and leader of the House of Lords Lord True Minister without portfolio and Conservative party chairman Jake Berry Cop26 President Alok Sharma Business, energy and industrial strategy secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg Levelling up, housing and communities Secretary Simon Clarke International trade secretary and president of the board of trade Kemi Badenoch Work and pensions secretary Chloe Smith Education secretary Kit Malthouse Environment secretary Ranil Jayawardena Transport secretary Anne-Marie Trevelyan Culture secretary Michelle Donelan Northern Ireland secretary Chris Heaton-Harris Scotland secretary Alister Jack Wales secretary Sir Robert Buckland QC Attending cabinet Parliamentary secretary to the Treasury (chief whip) Wendy Morton Chief secretary to the Treasury Chris Philp Attorney general Michael Ellis QC Paymaster general and minister for the Cabinet Office Edward Argar Minister for development at the Foreign Office Vicky Ford Minister for security at the home department Tom Tugendhat Minister for the armed forces and veterans at the Ministry of Defence James Heappey Minister for climate at the business department Graham Stuart |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Positives from that lot. Patel and Dorries have gone. Negatives… their replacements may be worse. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I can't imagine Braverman is worse than Patel. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
It's the hope that kills you. |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 18:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Grim... wrote: I can't imagine Braverman is worse than Patel. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -migration |
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| Author: | BikNorton [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 19:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I'm struggling a bit to decide if she's worse or better - I think probably better? She's at least honest in standing in parliament and answering questions about the cost of living crisis affecting the less-well-off by bluntly stating her solution is to enrich companies and the better-off? I fucking despise her and every single one of the baying jackals behind her, but there's nothing new there. Edit: no, actually, she's managed to reinvigorate my vitriol. Well done, I guess. |
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| Author: | Dr Zoidberg [ Wed Sep 07, 2022 21:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Her solution to the energy price rises seems to be for us to spread the cost across an indeterminate period so that the energy companies can make entirely unexpected and unjustified profits. |
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| Author: | Sir Taxalot [ Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
nickachu wrote: As another Brit from afar, I agree. It's shocking reading the news and seeing everything that has gone on, especially the last 3 years or so. Seeing all this stuff about energy prices is wild and you wonder what can anyone do. Wild is a good way to describe it. It's not exactly cheap where I am but things do seem -for now at least- to be a bit more stable. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Sat Sep 10, 2022 18:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Grim... wrote: I can't imagine Braverman is worse than Patel. oh |
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Haven't looked at the financial statement in much detail yet but looks like the Tories are going to burn the country down on their way out. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
The pound continues to plummet. Wonder if we'll hit parity today? |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Mon Sep 26, 2022 14:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: The pound continues to plummet. Wonder if we'll hit parity today? On the plus side it'll make it less annoying to be paying the same in pounds for stuff that Americans pay in dollars. |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Mon Sep 26, 2022 16:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Until the interest rates make everything more expensive. Fucking Tories are determined to burn this country to the ground. |
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