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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 18:36 
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gooby pls

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Morte wrote:
Johnson is Churchill's biographer, meaning he is either completely incompetent at that (not beyond the realm of plausibility) or he's a liar...hmmm, strokes chin in contemplation.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he had that book ghost-written.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 19:18 
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Kinda Funny Lookin'

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GazChap wrote:
Morte wrote:
Johnson is Churchill's biographer, meaning he is either completely incompetent at that (not beyond the realm of plausibility) or he's a liar...hmmm, strokes chin in contemplation.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he had that book ghost-written.

:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 18:43 
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Gogmagog

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Another normal day on Normal Island
Quote:
  • The morning kicked off with a comment from Conservative MP Andrew Percy that Wakeford’s defection had made MPs think twice about no confidence vote in Johnson.
  • Meanwhile, health secretary Sajid Javid said the partygate scandal had been “damaging to our democracy”, and defended the lifting of mask rules in schools since it is “harder to teach children” if they wear them.
  • Former Labour prime minister Tony Blair weighed in with his take that Johnson’s real problem wasn’t partygate but rather an “absence of plan for Britain’s future”.
  • The big event of the day took place at 10am, when Conservative MP William Wragg accused the government of trying to “blackmail” MPs pushing for a confidence vote in Boris Johnson.
  • Number 10 swiftly responded and, without outright refuting Wragg’s claims, said it was “not aware of any evidence” to support them. The stance was repeated soon after by Johnson.
  • Lots of politicians piled in with criticisms of the government. Lib Dem leader Ed Davey accused Johnson of acting “like a mafia boss”, Labour called for an investigation into the blackmail claims, which was echoed by the Scottish Tories (which Number 10 said it wouldn’t investigate the claims due to the lack of evidence). Former Brexit minister Steve Baker speculated that “it does look like checkmate” for Johnson, while Treasury chief secretary Simon Clark, said it would be “absolutely wrong” for government whips to threaten to withdraw constituency funding.
  • Wragg’s claims were followed by revelations from Christian Wakefield, the Bury South MP who defected to Labour, that he had been threatened with a loss of funding for his constituency if he rebelled as a Tory MP.
  • Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon called for an investigation into bullying and blackmail, which she called “gravely serious allegations”. She also cast her doubts on the decision to lift Plan B restrictions. “There are still significant uncertainties ahead,” she said.
  • The shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves accused the Conservatives of no longer being the party of business at a speech in Bury, given that they have presided over a “lost decade” of low growth.
  • In another embarrassment for Boris Johnson, it emerged that the study finding bridge or tunnel to Northern Ireland is not feasible cost £900,000 of taxpayer money.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... st-updates

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 19:02 
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The newsreader just said that Nadine Dorries has accused Wragg of "attention seeking". I suppose the pot was unable to comment.

With all of this going on, it's just as well that there's not a massive military buildup on a European border or anything that would require concentration or serious response. Oh, hang on.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 0:11 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Ian Hislop and a couple of Private Eye Journalists were interviewed by the HoC Select Committee on Standards

PoliticsJoe put edited highlights on their youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O8mwDFo4M


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 
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Soopah red DS

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Wow. He actually comes out with "we are born savages". Debatable, at best. Even the Tory who thinks that can't possibly think that stands up to the scrutiny of his own tiny brain.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:58 
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The news that Johnson authorised the animal flight from Kabul despite claiming to have had nothing to do with it has only served to remind me about how abhorrent that whole affair was.

But then, of course Johnson would have been in favour. Newspapers like stories involving dogs, after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 16:56 
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Utter scenes in the House of Commons right now.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Theresa May went for him.
That was unexpected.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 17:35 
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Soopah red DS

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I've been enjoying Lis, Dunt and Goodall on Twitter. The three journalists, that is, not the design firm. They all seem surprised at just how bad this is for the worthless piece of shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 17:37 
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Saville was a new low.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 17:38 
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He has nothing. It's painful (or would be if I cared about him)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 17:44 
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One of the many reasons I could never be an MP is that I would never debase myself in the way some of these Tory MPs are with their brown nosing.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 17:51 
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Plot twist!
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
DRUGS


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 17:57 
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Soopah red DS

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Kern wrote:
One of the many reasons I could never be an MP is that I would never debase myself in the way some of these Tory MPs are with their brown nosing.

Of all the many ironies of life, the idea that we have FPTP in order to have strong government, but then that 'strong' government only comes about because people are compelled by whips or desire to further their career (a career which, if Tory, they don't actually want because it doesn't pay enough) is one of the hardest to take. Plus, of course, with this government, there is very little strength from their massive majority.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:41 
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JBR wrote:
Kern wrote:
One of the many reasons I could never be an MP is that I would never debase myself in the way some of these Tory MPs are with their brown nosing.

Of all the many ironies of life, the idea that we have FPTP in order to have strong government, but then that 'strong' government only comes about because people are compelled by whips or desire to further their career (a career which, if Tory, they don't actually want because it doesn't pay enough) is one of the hardest to take. Plus, of course, with this government, there is very little strength from their massive majority.


It's one of the many reasons I'm in favour of extensive devolution/federalism as it provides more routes to executive office than just the Commons. I also think that boosting the role of select committees and making scrutiny as lucrative a career as office would also help, and improve the quality of legislation and governance.

I think that were we to switch to a form of PR and saw a subsequent increase in parties, we might actually see tighter control within them as they jostle for numbers but the overall effect would be less harmful as coalitions change.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:45 
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Still fuming about the shitshow in the Commons yesterday. There, that's my hot political take.

I'd write to my MP but her current silence on it is damning enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:47 
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Meanwhile, Liz Truss has tested positive for Covid. She'd only spent the whole afternoon in the packed Commons chamber, so nothing to worry about there then. I guess her head-to-head with Putin (the Rocky sequel we all wanted) will have to be postponed. A real shame, because Trussia was the portmanteau we all wanted.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:07 
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Kern wrote:
Trussia was the portmanteau we all wanted.

OMG, it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:27 
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Still fuming about yesterday. I gave in to it, and wrote to my MP.

Quote:
I watched the whole of yesterday's debate on the initial Sue Gray Report.

I am not asking you for your comments about the various parties at 10 Downing Street during lockdown, or whether such behaviour from political leaders during times of national crisis is acceptable or appropriate. I believe your public statements on the matter have been sufficient for your constituents to understand your position.

I am instead writing about an allegation made by Mr Johnson against the leader of the opposition:

"Instead, this Leader of the Opposition, a former Director of Public Prosecutions—although he spent most of his time prosecuting journalists and failing to prosecute Jimmy Savile, as far as I can make out—chose to use this moment continually to prejudge a police inquiry" (Column 26)

There is, as you are aware, no truth in this statement. It is utterly disgusting that Mr Johnson would attempt to connect one of Britain's most horrific criminals with Sir Keir Starmer.

I trust you share my abhorrence at this slur, and that you have informed the Prime Minister that you think such behaviour has no place in our country and requested he withdraw his comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 14:01 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Johnson has to go...

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 14:41 
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He only went and double-downed on it today. Utterly shameful.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 16:52 
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Soopah red DS

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These fuckers. Go on, one of you slip and repeat it outside parliament.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 17:17 
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Are you immune from slander inside Parliament, even if the words are broadcast/reported?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 17:57 
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Gogmagog

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Yes

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 18:30 
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Our whole parliament needs burning to the ground and starting again. All the stupid historical shite from the ridiculous old building to the silly outfits is just not fit for purpose and just reinforces the privilege of people like Rees-Mogg and Johnson. Imagine carrying on like these fucking cunts do in a normal office run by grown ups. They'd be out the door.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 18:33 
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Gogmagog

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I quite like the pictures of Starmer playing five a side as he always looks proper fucked.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 19:02 
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MaliA wrote:
Yes


Except that you're not allowed to call anyone a "blackguard" (pronounced 'blaggard') if I remember correctly. The Speaker will give you a bollocking if you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 19:19 
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Decapodian

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Mimi wrote:
Are you immune from slander inside Parliament, even if the words are broadcast/reported?


Yep, but bizarrely you aren’t allowed to say someone is lying, or applaud.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 20:31 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Are you immune from slander inside Parliament, even if the words are broadcast/reported?


Yep, but bizarrely you aren’t allowed to say someone is lying, or applaud.

What if you say someone is lying when they aren’t lying*? They can’t do you for that in that instance as it’s slander. This is the loophole we all need!

*except, they’re never not lying, are they?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:08 
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Can you dig it?

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Kern wrote:
It's one of the many reasons I'm in favour of extensive devolution/federalism as it provides more routes to executive office than just the Commons. I also think that boosting the role of select committees and making scrutiny as lucrative a career as office would also help, and improve the quality of legislation and governance.
.


Interesting - I have a feeling (and it's not based on much actual knowledge) that the Westminster-centric 'power base' isn't terribly good for the country as a whole, as there's a lot more to England than just London - and I say that as a London-suburber.

But, having spent time living in a federation in a crisis in a pandemic in a wacky weird world, I find full federalism as I've experienced it to be kinda weird and a touch confusing. For example, laws are a bit different from one state to the next (certainly in the field I work in); there's a lot of competition and sometimes lack of cooperation between states, some states go in a quite different direction to others (eg WA shutting its borders to the rest of Aus), and some uncertainty over which government actually does what and whether its a federal govt or a state govt issue (perhaps that's because of ignorance on my behalf) so they just end up fighting.

What are the middle grounds between the Aus and the UK models? Has any country really got a good model or are they all just 'better than some of the other things we've tried'?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:21 
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Sir Taxalot wrote:
Interesting - I have a feeling (and it's not based on much actual knowledge) that the Westminster-centric 'power base' isn't terribly good for the country as a whole, as there's a lot more to England than just London - and I say that as a London-suburber.


Yes, I tend to put the nation's ills down to a combination of over-centralisation, an archaic voting system creating safe seats, and continued decline in local authority funding and powers. Each of these, of course, is a mini-essay in itself of course.

Quote:
But, having spent time living in a federation in a crisis in a pandemic in a wacky weird world, I find full federalism as I've experienced it to be kinda weird and a touch confusing. For example, laws are a bit different from one state to the next (certainly in the field I work in); there's a lot of competition and sometimes lack of cooperation between states, some states go in a quite different direction to others (eg WA shutting its borders to the rest of Aus), and some uncertainty over which government actually does what and whether its a federal govt or a state govt issue (perhaps that's because of ignorance on my behalf) so they just end up fighting.

What are the middle grounds between the Aus and the UK models? Has any country really got a good model or are they all just 'better than some of the other things we've tried'?


Yes, this is when the high-level ideal hits reality first. One of the more painful things I've come to accept is that whilst I still think institutions matter, they are operated by people. Some federal states have done well in the pandemic, others less so, often both in the same country. Different approaches will lead to different outcomes, but outside of an emergency differences in policy and implementation provide some ground for experimentation. Whenever I've discussed this with friends, one view that always comes out is the unhappiness with the idea that services might not be the same across the country.

There's also the question of which powers should lie where, and I don't think there's a hard and fast rule on this. It also requires people to keep aware of who does what and where, and an eagerness to use these bodies as more than just a chance to show two fingers to Westminster. Perhaps one failing of the UK's EU experience was people never understood what the supranational level did and how it worked (myself included) so it became seen as a layer of expensive deadwood rather than anything beneficial to their lives.

You can have the wisest constitutional settlement, but ultimately it means nothing without money. Germany has an equalisation clause meaning that the richer Länder have to support the poorer ones, and something like that would have to be implemented in a way that keeps everybody happy.

This is a topic I can happily discuss and play around with all night. I'm also well aware of the kindly six word teardown my old university tutor made after I'd presented a paper extolling the wisdom of federalism: "Explain the American Civil War then".


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:58 
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Two heads are better than one

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Kern wrote:
"Explain the American Civil War then".


"Most Americans are nuts"


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 20:03 
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I hope anyone else seeking to resign will save it until tomorrow as I'm heading out in a bit and don't want to miss out on the gloating.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:28 
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Well, they didn't wait, did they? I'd like to see Peter Capaldi appointed as Boris' Head of Communications to shake things up a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:36 
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Warhead wrote:
Well, they didn't wait, did they?


It's the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from this shitshow of a government.

Quote:
I'd like to see Peter Capaldi appointed as Boris' Head of Communications to shake things up a bit.


Malcom Tucker would have hung Cummings by his balls from the battlements of Barnard Castle.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 21:56 
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Great set up, cracking punch line

".... auction prizes he never received, ...breakfast with the prime minister, a Japanese meal with Jeremy Hunt and a “magical show” by former defence secretary Penny Mordaunt, who once worked as a magician’s assistant."

https://t.co/PwVmbNwWpz

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:53 
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MaliA wrote:
Great set up, cracking punch line

".... auction prizes he never received, ...breakfast with the prime minister, a Japanese meal with Jeremy Hunt and a “magical show” by former defence secretary Penny Mordaunt, who once worked as a magician’s assistant."

https://t.co/PwVmbNwWpz


:D

I think he's not quite understood why people bid large amounts for these things at party auctions.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 14:22 
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I see the angry mob have accosted Kier Starmer chanting about Jimmy Saville, but Boris is refusing to apologise for making these false claims and many in his party don't think there's any connection between the two....


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 14:28 
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Yes, absolutely disgusting and pretty scary.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 14:29 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Kern wrote:
Yes, absolutely disgusting and pretty scary.



No, no, you've got it all wrong, some football hooligans do this every Saturday so it's absolutely fine

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:00 
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Nadine Dorries wants to press ahead with privatising Channel 4.

I can't see how any private company would want take it on without a massive reduction in its remit, and she clearly doesn't get that C4 supports a massive ecosystem of independent production companies. It just seems that this government is determined to destroy everything that makes this country great.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:04 
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Gogmagog

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Can the philistines use a bill to reduce the remit to "Broadcast on this frequency, or as amended by whatever" and sort that?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:13 
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Yes, its remit is set out in legislation (Communications Act 2003 as amended by various Digital Economy Acts if I recall correctly) as well as those set out in its Ofcom licence.

One of the big issues affecting a sale is that the chunk of television frequencies gifted to C4 just isn't as valuable as it might have been 20 years ago.

And contrary to statements given by the noted author and Enemy of the Algorithms, C4 are doing pretty well in the online space.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:21 
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So, the reality of any sale (given C4 commission, but don't produce, a lot of stuff), is that the buyer is going to get some real estate, a bunch of second hand TV kit, and a space on the RF spectrum that less than half of what the UK did tune into now we all stream things.

So, selling it probably isn't for commercial reasons of ongoing viability, then?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:25 
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Gogmagog

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<to camera>

See, if you were on Mumsnet you'd all be reading about the loss of Naked Attraction and what a boon for societial mores its going would be.

You get spoiled here with such discourse.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:31 
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MaliA wrote:
<to camera>

See, if you were on Mumsnet you'd all be reading about the loss of Naked Attraction and what a boon for societial mores its going would be.

You get spoiled here with such discourse.


:)

I used to think the timeline skipped when Bowie died, but perhaps it was the demise of Richard Whiteley years before that caused the end of everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:40 
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MaliA wrote:
So, the reality of any sale (given C4 commission, but don't produce, a lot of stuff), is that the buyer is going to get some real estate, a bunch of second hand TV kit, and a space on the RF spectrum that less than half of what the UK did tune into now we all stream things.


Basically, yes. You get a teapot and the complete OED.

Quote:
So, selling it probably isn't for commercial reasons of ongoing viability, then?


It's hard to see the commercial attractiveness of it. It might get picked up by one of the major megacorporations and whilst you could ringfence a proportion of independent content and a set news requirement, cross-subsidisation of programming just isn't going to happen in the way C4 does it now.

About the only ray of hope is that as it wasn't in the manifesto, the Lords can put up more of a stink. And as with everything to do with this administration, they might get distracted by something else tomorrow anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:25 
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Unpossible!

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I can't see anyone wanting to buy it, to be fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:40 
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Isn't that lovely?

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DavPaz wrote:
I can't see anyone wanting to buy it, to be fair.



Some minister's brother in law will buy it, at a reduced price, asset strip it, and turn it into a right wing free speech beacon of Britishness

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:52 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6301
I don't know how the rights work, but I bet the back catalogue is worth a decent chunk.


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