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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 21:27 
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Bad Girl

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Grim... wrote:
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There’s a queue for the lift. If I’ve got corona and I get into a lift and cough without a mask shedding some virus, will it be gone by the time the next person gets into the lift?

Lifts and toilets are the hardest things to work around with the whole "return to the office" stuff.


Which is why I’m surprised that no one is shown wearing a mask.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:35 
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Starmer really good at PMQs again, Johnson getting visibly rattled and annoyed, and indeed quite shouty and bangy.

Actually worth watching again after years of Corbyn clearly preferring to be at home making jam.

One term government? Very much possible IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:50 
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It's both hilarious and worrying how out of his depth he appears on this occasions. His standard tricks of just repeating empty phrases or just waffling are completely exposed. When I heard of the Telegraph headline this morning, I knew dam well what the first question would be, and yet he seemed taken aback by it. That was just the first one - his anger as time went on was not due to point of principle, but of someone realising they're struggling.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 13:31 
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You can see why they try not to let him out very often.

https://twitter.com/jerryhayes1/status/ ... 3960483840



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 17:31 
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Hearthly wrote:
You can see why they try not to let him out very often.

https://twitter.com/jerryhayes1/status/ ... 3960483840




They have so few they can trust, don't they? Johnson - oh, hated at least as much as he is admired. Lock him up! Rees Mogg, you want to take... oh for crying... Right, Priti, say something about the death penalty to get those fuckers on our side. No! Don't try anything else, back in your box.

And Jerry Hayes is not exactly a soft Tory.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:07 
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I see the schools reopening and parliament getting back to normal have both been unqualified successes

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:19 
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https://twitter.com/KarlT0/status/1268252330681675777




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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:25 
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I'm still not sure what to make of the last-minute cameo by Theresa May right at the end. It didn't seem like a friendly question, nor one that Johnson had any answer to.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 21:30 
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MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Nice to see that Trump has finally confirmed he was just winding people up and not really trying to be elected.


At least the slide into facism will be slightly comical and inept, rather than oppressively terrible.


Oh.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 21:31 
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MaliA wrote:
We should remove Liverpool and Bristol because of the slavery connections.


Oh.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 21:34 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
If that statue wasn't there today, absolutely not a single one of us would be having a conversation about Cecil Rhodes and why imperialist attitudes to other nations was a bad thing. It's always better to have the conversation.


It's good the conversation is being had again, I think. I am quite surprised that the statue in Bristol was chucked into the river.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 21:45 
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Yes, a surprisingly apt location.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 21:53 
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https://twitter.com/JackRaoul/status/12 ... 5186800640



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:03 
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Yes, time for him to take a long swim in the Cherwell.

I've changed my mind on all of this over the years. Who or what we choose to commeroate in our towns and the values we wish to communicate is for us the living to decide.This is particularly true when it's a pretty clear cut case.

No real hard and fast rules - people can be total shits but some saving throw that outweighs the rest. In London, for example, Churchill should probably stay but I think Cromwell now needs to be reunited with his head under a Cambridge college chapel.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:22 
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This is good background information:

https://twitter.com/KateWilliamsme/stat ... 1973516290




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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:58 
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Kern wrote:
I've changed my mind on all of this over the years

:kiss:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:24 
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I saw that demonstrators had renamed streets in Glasgow that are named after slavers or people who made their fortune off the slave trade. There's been a discussion for a long time in Liverpool about renaming some of the city streets for the same reason.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-51064508

The main opposition to this movement is the fact that one of those slave streets is... Penny Lane.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:25 
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I didn't know that but there could be more call for Penny Lane to be named as such because of the Beatles. I don't know, rewriting history maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:29 
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Just say the song came first. Like the grave of Eleanor Rigby.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:16 
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I feel that the statue being put there is an important piece of history. I feel that the statue being pulled down and thrown in the river is an important piece of history.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:17 
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I think there should be a statue put in its place of protesters pulling down the statue. Meta the fuck out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:18 
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Cras wrote:
I think there should be a statue put in its place of protesters pulling down the statue. Meta the fuck out of it.

That way you can incorporate the original statue into the design!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:18 
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DavPaz wrote:
I saw that demonstrators had renamed streets in Glasgow that are named after slavers or people who made their fortune off the slave trade. There's been a discussion for a long time in Liverpool about renaming some of the city streets for the same reason.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-51064508

The main opposition to this movement is the fact that one of those slave streets is... Penny Lane.


When the origin of the names has been lost to history I think that’s far less of a priority than other things. Like statues which should have been moved to a museum where a proper explanation of their life and historical context could be provided.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:33 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
I saw that demonstrators had renamed streets in Glasgow that are named after slavers or people who made their fortune off the slave trade. There's been a discussion for a long time in Liverpool about renaming some of the city streets for the same reason.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-51064508

The main opposition to this movement is the fact that one of those slave streets is... Penny Lane.


When the origin of the names has been lost to history I think that’s far less of a priority than other things. Like statues which should have been moved to a museum where a proper explanation of their life and historical context could be provided.

Yeah, so they could fish that statue out of the harbour, stick it back on its plinth, but put a plaque underneath it with the legend, "This bastard made a fortune out of slavery and then willed a lot of his evilly gotten gains to this city when he snuffed it. Let this be a warning to you."

Or such like.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 16:19 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Warhead wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
I saw that demonstrators had renamed streets in Glasgow that are named after slavers or people who made their fortune off the slave trade. There's been a discussion for a long time in Liverpool about renaming some of the city streets for the same reason.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-51064508

The main opposition to this movement is the fact that one of those slave streets is... Penny Lane.


When the origin of the names has been lost to history I think that’s far less of a priority than other things. Like statues which should have been moved to a museum where a proper explanation of their life and historical context could be provided.

Yeah, so they could fish that statue out of the harbour, stick it back on its plinth, but put a plaque underneath it with the legend, "This bastard made a fortune out of slavery and then willed a lot of his evilly gotten gains to this city when he snuffed it. Let this be a warning to you."

Or such like.


They tried to do something similar for years, but nobody could agree on the wording of the plaque.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 16:44 
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Is the statue of John Bunyan in Bedford going to be torn down? I've no idea if he's a cunt or not.

It's a long walk down the High Street before you get to the river, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 16:57 
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All I know is that he had terrible feet.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 18:13 
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Grim... wrote:
Is the statue of John Bunyan in Bedford going to be torn down? I've no idea if he's a cunt or not.

It's a long walk down the High Street before you get to the river, though.


It was a fair distance from where it was stood in Bristol to the waterfront where they dunked it.
I’m sure they went twice as far as needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 21:53 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Is the statue of John Bunyan in Bedford going to be torn down? I've no idea if he's a cunt or not.

It's a long walk down the High Street before you get to the river, though.


It was a fair distance from where it was stood in Bristol to the waterfront where they dunked it.
I’m sure they went twice as far as needed.

Yes, it was deliberate. The bridge they took the statue to was named after an enslaved black man.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 17:56 
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Can anyone explain to me what the current brouhaha involving JK Rowling is all about? I read her missive and it seems supportive but wary (decisions need to be taken cautiously and slowly, not just broad brush everything and crack on), which doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 18:32 
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MaliA wrote:
Can anyone explain to me what the current brouhaha involving JK Rowling is all about? I read her missive and it seems supportive but wary (decisions need to be taken cautiously and slowly, not just broad brush everything and crack on), which doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

She’s got a history of supporting blatant transphobes. Here’s an example: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/20/uk/j ... index.html

You should see the state of her retweets.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 18:40 
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Mr Chonks wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Can anyone explain to me what the current brouhaha involving JK Rowling is all about? I read her missive and it seems supportive but wary (decisions need to be taken cautiously and slowly, not just broad brush everything and crack on), which doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

She’s got a history of supporting blatant transphobes. Here’s an example: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/20/uk/j ... index.html

You should see the state of her retweets.


Oddly, she and Stuart Campbell share a lot of transphobic views, yet they hate each other and are constantly fighting.

It’s a... TERF WAR.

I’ve been waiting for a natural set-up for that for about a year, but decided it was never going to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 18:47 
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Glad we could make this happen

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 18:56 
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MaliA wrote:
Can anyone explain to me what the current brouhaha involving JK Rowling is all about? I read her missive and it seems supportive but wary (decisions need to be taken cautiously and slowly, not just broad brush everything and crack on), which doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

This is a good response too

https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/stat ... 1275762689



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 19:22 
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Oh goodness sake, she said it too? I take it back. It was a rubbish joke and I have wasted a year.

I actually can’t see half of that thread. A lot of the tweets are coming up as missing.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:27 
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The statue debate (and latest battle in the ever-tedious culture war) relates to Baden-Powell. Most papers carry a ice photo-op for one of the minor organisations today. For those wanting to evaluate Baden-Powell's life and attitudes, Tim Jeal's 1989 doorstop of a biography remains the leading text although I got rid of my copy during a general clearout a while back. I've always found him a very enigmatic subject who just when you think you can nail something on you'll find contradictory evidence a bit later.

I'd probably divide his life in to his military career and Scouting career. The former contains most of the uncomfortable stuff, but that's part and parcel of 19th Century British colonialism. The later part of his life I think outweighs the general stuff. True, there is some deeply distrubing stuff in his work (as ever "Rovering to Success" takes the dodginess of "Scouting for Boys" to the next level) but I think he was naive about Hitler and fascism rather than all for it, and whilst clearly an imperialist there does seem to be an understanding of the need for education for all young men.

As for accusations of homophobia, I think he was so deep in the closet he was practicallly in Narnia and was never able to rationalise it all.

Some cases are clear-cut (Confederates; slavers), others less so. This falls into the latter category. But works not deeds and I don't think the loss of a statue would be erasing his memory.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:02 
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A local equivalent - there's a pub called The Black's Head which has had its sign removed. I'd never heard of the place before, but considering the name and the sign, I figured there couldn't be too much fuss over it being removed. Turns out I was wrong - every comment I read about it was the same 'political correctness gone mad'.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:07 
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devilman wrote:
A local equivalent - there's a pub called The Black's Head which has had its sign removed. I'd never heard of the place before, but considering the name and the sign, I figured there couldn't be too much fuss over it being removed. Turns out I was wrong - every comment I read about it was the same 'political correctness gone mad'.


Ashbourne is a weird place. Used to drive through it loads, on the way to Buxton, but never once saw anyone there smile .

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:12 
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Ashbourne is a weird place. Used to drive through it loads, on the way to Buxton, but never once saw anyone there smile .
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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:33 
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I always find a real unease around the Black Country flag, which you see a lot around here, and even more around Dudley, Wolverhampton, etc. It features, at centre, linked chains, which were one of the area’s biggest trade outputs, and they were forged in huge numbers for use in the slave trade.

With the statues and those people arguing that these symbols should be kept as they are historic and part of an area’s legacy, and were made in an different time, well this flag was designed and adopted in 2012.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:42 
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Mimi wrote:
I always find a real unease around the Black Country flag, which you see a lot around here, and even more around Dudley, Wolverhampton, etc. It features, at centre, linked chains, which were one of the area’s biggest trade outputs, and they were forged in huge numbers for use in the slave trade.

With the statues and those people arguing that these symbols should be kept as they are historic and part of an area’s legacy, and were made in an different time, well this flag was designed and adopted in 2012.

I didn't realise that, I had assumed the chains were for things like boats? Guess I need to read more too.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 
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Jem wrote:
Mimi wrote:
I always find a real unease around the Black Country flag, which you see a lot around here, and even more around Dudley, Wolverhampton, etc. It features, at centre, linked chains, which were one of the area’s biggest trade outputs, and they were forged in huge numbers for use in the slave trade.

With the statues and those people arguing that these symbols should be kept as they are historic and part of an area’s legacy, and were made in an different time, well this flag was designed and adopted in 2012.

I didn't realise that, I had assumed the chains were for things like boats? Guess I need to read more too.


Oh, they had a multitude of uses, as they do today, but the sales to slavers were a big part of it.

If you show somebody an image of a chain, though, and ask them what it brings to mind, I think a lot of people would say incarceration of one kind or another, and it just looks ‘uncomfortable’ at best. In fact, the entire imagery is rather aggressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 18:22 
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Mimi wrote:
I always find a real unease around the Black Country flag, which you see a lot around here, and even more around Dudley, Wolverhampton, etc. It features, at centre, linked chains, which were one of the area’s biggest trade outputs, and they were forged in huge numbers for use in the slave trade.

With the statues and those people arguing that these symbols should be kept as they are historic and part of an area’s legacy, and were made in an different time, well this flag was designed and adopted in 2012.


I find the Black Country flag annoying as it seems to go hand in hand with being proud of talking unintelligible gibberish, and going on about how great a place it is despite evidence to the contrary.

The slavery aspect is an interesting one. I haven’t researched it, but I expect that they would have been responsible for production of a high percentage of chains used for slavery though that was only a tiny percentage of the regions total industry.

Definitely something that could be highlighted to make more people aware, and also that working conditions for those in the factories were pretty dire too, though clearly not slavery.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 18:55 
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I don’t think that picking black, white and red for a new flag was a particularly good choice, either, given the other flag that was famously made up of the same three.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 15:13 
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Boris likes TimTams

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 13:48 
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Parents of £3k a term school ask government to help it stay open, as "many may go to already oversubscribed mainstream schools, with huge class numbers - this is not acceptable."

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 13:54 
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Tbf if I’d had to go to mainstream school I wouldn’t have survived. I was very lucky my parents had the means to pay for my education (well, they got themselves up to the eyeballs in debt, but still).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 14:01 
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How do you mean, you wouldn't have survived? I know you don't mean you'd have died, but what? There's nice kids and horrible kids and good teachers and shit teachers everywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 14:54 
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Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 36222
MaliA wrote:
Parents of £3k a term school ask government to help it stay open, as "many may go to already oversubscribed mainstream schools, with huge class numbers - this is not acceptable."

https://t.co/mrh97gVSXc
Haha, fuck off.

Why don't they just pay more?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 15:04 
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Can't re-member

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 54614
Location: Liberty City
markg wrote:
How do you mean, you wouldn't have survived? I know you don't mean you'd have died, but what? There's nice kids and horrible kids and good teachers and shit teachers everywhere.

I needed a lot of support. I wouldn’t have got that in a class size of 30.

Of course we should put more money into the state school system so they are as good as fee-paying schools, but I thought I’d just share my experience.

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