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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:57 
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Fitness Nut...

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i am loving the facebook experts.. 'out is out' I just scroll past in despair

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 13:54 
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KovacsC wrote:
i am loving the facebook experts.. 'out is out, end of,' I just scroll past in despair


FTFY

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 14:01 
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Kern wrote:
Meanwhile, in the USA, Donald Trump draws on a map to win an argument with meteorologists.


Pity it didn't look like a cock and balls, as has been seen elsewhere.

There's a giphy for that, I'm sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 15:22 
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Two heads are better than one

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I know this seems basic - but the fact that Sinn Fein are openly talking about this could be seen as a big step (note they have ruled out actually taking the seats they win in Westminster)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 68538.html


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 16:20 
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Sinn Fein soberly trooping into Parliament for the only time in history to cast some deciding votes against Brexit would be a good season finale, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 17:40 
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Just caught the end of Johnson's speech in front of a bunch of police. Where's this alleged charisma and charm we keep hearing about then?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 15:16 
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Esoteric

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Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
The EU that btw we entered with no vote and no choice.


This isn't true. There was a referendum


This is the problem, you see. JC doesn’t have a sodding clue what he’s talking about, and any actual attempt to elicit facts is met with “Oh, both sides are the same”, and then an anecdote that is either factually incorrect or has nothing to do with the EU.

And if you don’t know much about something then fair enough; nobody has to be an expert at everything. But if you have a group of people who have read up a lot on a subject, such as people here on the EU, then don’t come stamping on through in your Size Twelves telling them that they don’t understand it.

It’d be like me going over to the PC thread and saying I know more about the builds and performance times than the rest of you (or me posting in most threads tbf).



Just FYI I never claimed to be an expert. I've had information from both sides that has obviously been untruthful.

Which of course is the main problem. I guess it's what happens when you call for a referendum and have no fucking idea yourself what will even happen or what it means.

I just don't like the idea that everyone who opposes the idea is stupid.

Hearthly clearly had it right. I was in a right fucking state two days ago. Kovacs clearly doesn't understand, and yes, I'll be honest not only do I feel bullied here (because we manage perfectly ok on numerous forums I visit) but I've also seen others bullied. There just seems to be pack hunting going on sometimes it kinda reminds me of lord of the flies.

Having said that life is mostly like that any way.

As for politics? Well hopefully these supposed experts can manage something and I can go back to not giving a fuck as I usually do. Maybe people should stop being so catastrophic and scaring people into paying attention. I'd forgotten I hadn't watched the news for 20 years for a good reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 15:32 
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JC, I'm really sorry you've been made to feel that way, and apologise for being part of the cause. I hope you can go back to enjoying this forum soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 22:07 
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Amber Rudd has resigned as a minister and Conservative party member.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:19 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Amber Rudd has resigned as a minister and Conservative party member.


Finally!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:51 
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Another vote on an early election tonight. Looks like they're using the "early election" requiring 2/3rds majority route, rather than the simpler No-confidence method.

Meanwhile Mr Johnson is off to Dublin, presumably because they all need some light relief after Mike Pence's trip.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:34 
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Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
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Wait, wait. Johnson is calling for a no-confidence vote... on himself?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:07 
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DavPaz wrote:
Wait, wait. Johnson is calling for a no-confidence vote... on himself?
no

Kern wrote:
Looks like they're using the "early election" requiring 2/3rds majority route, rather than the simpler No-confidence method.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:11 
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Voting yourself out in a no-confidence motion to force an election has been used in Germany, where the rules on changing the Chancellor or going to the polls are deliberately designed to be difficult to accomplish. Gerhard Schroeder did it in 2005.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:11 
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Unpossible!

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Wait, wait. Johnson is calling for a no-confidence vote... on himself?
no

Kern wrote:
Looks like they're using the "early election" requiring 2/3rds majority route, rather than the simpler No-confidence method.

Right, yes. Reading fail.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:12 
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DavPaz wrote:
Reading fail.


Ballad Of.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 
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Oo, just spotted that MPs are debating the prorogation petition in the Chill-Out Room this afternoon.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:44 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Kern wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Reading fail.


Ballad Of.

:DD :DD :DD


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 13:54 
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Sleepyhead

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Seems like we’re going to get Johnson pushing hard for May’s Deal. Obviously he can’t sell that as progress, so I assume that he will have to beg the EU for *something* that he can put on top to at least claim that he has something different.

Or he can go full No Deal and fight the courts, I guess.

God I just want it to be over (but not with No Deal).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 15:00 
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Now Mr Johnson won't have to face any more PMQs for a bit, and has saved himself for attending the biannual meeting of the scrutiny committee that was due on Wednesday. I'm surprised the Great Communicator is denying himself such opportunities to shine.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 15:01 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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What happened to the report on the NI executive?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 15:03 
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They're on the schedule today, but probably won't get much attention.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 15:03 
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Curiosity wrote:
God I just want it to be over (but not with No Deal).


The best way to win Brexit is not to play.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 15:22 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
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Curiosity wrote:
God I just want it to be over (but not with No Deal).


I'm not convinced this will ever end. We're all trapped in The Forever Brexit, doomed to argue about Humble Addresses and GATT XXIV for all time whilst civilization crumbles to dust around us.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 15:53 
SupaMod
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Est. 1978

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https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status ... 4314113024



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 16:03 
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Can't re-member

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Grim... wrote:
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1171071314314113024

Brextremists in the comments seem to be crowing about it, but unless there’s an election, doesn’t it mean that parliament as it is now (ie no Tory maj) will pick the next speaker?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 16:09 
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For clarity, he'll stand down on the 31st or when there's an election, whichever comes sooner.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 16:12 
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Grim... wrote:
For clarity, he'll stand down on the 31st or when there's an election, whichever comes sooner.

So on 1st Nov, the current parliament will pick the next speaker, so could well be someone worse for the Tories than they have now.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 16:20 
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Mr Chonks wrote:
Grim... wrote:
For clarity, he'll stand down on the 31st or when there's an election, whichever comes sooner.

So on 1st Nov, the current parliament will pick the next speaker, so could well be someone worse for the Tories than they have now.


I think that's unlikely, but it certainly blocks the worst case of the installation of a government yes-person

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 17:15 
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Ha!

10 years in the chair is a heck of a long time. It'll be a shame to see him go, but he was the right person for the wild ride of the past three years.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:03 
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Probably won't have time to through all of yesterday's fun and games (and painfully aware that there are now a finite number of Bercows), but here's something from Westminister Hall regarding the petitions:

Tommy Sheppard (SNP):

Quote:
I wonder how many people who sign such petitions understand that this is the place where their hopes and aspirations come to die on a wet Monday afternoon, in a Committee Room off the House of Commons Chamber, with 10 Members assembled who have no ability to advocate on behalf of the petitioners, or to influence, nevermind change, Government policy. It is too late for this Parliament, but if I come back to this place in the future, I will seek changes to our procedures and how we deal with those who petition this Parliament. I do not think we treat them fairly enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:49 
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Wait a second...

Mr Johnson wrote:
Why are they conniving to delay Brexit, in defiance of the referendum, costing the country an extra £250 million a week for the privilege of delay—enough to upgrade more than five hospitals and train 4,000 new nurses?


The bus enthusiast can't even remember his own lies.

Originally posted in the 1st World Problems thread....


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:12 
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In films, this is called foreshadowing:

Jeremy Corbyn wrote:
I do not really wish anyone dead in a ditch, even if that is their own wish.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 13:17 
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Noob as of 6/8/10

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Cras wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Grim... wrote:
For clarity, he'll stand down on the 31st or when there's an election, whichever comes sooner.

So on 1st Nov, the current parliament will pick the next speaker, so could well be someone worse for the Tories than they have now.


I think that's unlikely, but it certainly blocks the worst case of the installation of a government yes-person

If Boris is ousted before then, he could be the next Speaker. I'd pay good money to see that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 13:17 
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Noob as of 6/8/10

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But not a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 13:31 
SupaMod
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Quality, not quantity :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 14:02 
8-Bit Champion
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https://twitter.com/mpc_1968/status/1171234922717220864




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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 15:35 
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Unpossible!

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The sound quality on that clip is bloody awful


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 16:38 
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DavPaz wrote:
The sound quality on that clip is bloody awful

The sound quality on John Bercow is bloody awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 16:39 
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Warhead wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
The sound quality on that clip is bloody awful

The sound quality on John Bercow is bloody awful.


OOOOOOOORDEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 16:43 
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Esoteric

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Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
Incorrigible :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 17:07 
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Curiosity wrote:
Warhead wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
The sound quality on that clip is bloody awful

The sound quality on John Bercow is bloody awful.


OOOOOOOORDEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR!


MISTERPETER BOOOOOONNNNNEEEE

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 19:54 
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There was a nice anecdote on the latest Remainiacs podcast from Naomi Smith, who was being interviewed on College Green and had to stop herself laughing because Peter Bone was also being interviewed nearby, and people were doing the obvious Bercow impressions within earshot.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:11 
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Isn't that lovely?

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https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/ ... 8688854016




What Now?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:14 
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It'll have to go the Supreme Court, who might take the opportunity to provide some case law on what lawful prorogation looks like.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:35 
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BBC link:

Quote:
"The Court will accordingly make an Order declaring that the Prime Minister's advice to HM the Queen and the prorogation which followed thereon was unlawful and is thus null and of no effect."


Giphy "holy fucking shit":
https://media0.giphy.com/media/RMYsgX9Pvrx1jGCYF2/giphy-loop.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:38 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Kern wrote:
BBC link:

Quote:
"The Court will accordingly make an Order declaring that the Prime Minister's advice to HM the Queen and the prorogation which followed thereon was unlawful and is thus null and of no effect."


Giphy "holy fucking shit":
https://media0.giphy.com/media/xUn3CngkdaGqI78CC4/giphy-loop.mp4


But that's a Scottish Court, does it have jurisdiction over Westminster? Does Parliament reopen today? or do they wait until The Supreme court ruling?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:40 
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Depends on whether the court makes an order, and if it does whether it is stayed pending appeal to the Supreme Court.
But I did not expect any success for any trial, so - wow.

Of course, it's Scottish Law and they do things differently there. Ain't the Union wonderful?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:42 
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I thought that the cod-medieval ceremony with candles in a Scottish castle was a little far-fetched, but the writers have pulled a great twist. Let's just hope we don't get a musical episode.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:19 
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The Grauniad has posted the summary judgement on their rolling-updates page (link might change).

Quote:
The Lord President, Lord Carloway, decided that although advice to HM the Queen on the exercise of the royal prerogative of prorogating Parliament was not reviewable on the normal grounds of judicial review, it would nevertheless be unlawful if its purpose was to stymie parliamentary scrutiny of the executive, which was a central pillar of the good governance principle enshrined in the constitution; this followed from the principles of democracy and the rule of law. The circumstances in which the advice was proffered and the content of the documents produced by the respondent demonstrated that this was the true reason for the prorogation


Quote:
Lord Drummond Young determined that the courts have jurisdiction to decide whether any power, under the prerogative or otherwise, has been legally exercised. It was incumbent on the UK Government to show a valid reason for the prorogation, having regard to the fundamental constitutional importance of parliamentary scrutiny of executive action. The circumstances, particularly the length of the prorogation, showed that the purpose was to prevent such scrutiny. The documents provided showed no other explanation for this


Ouch in spades!


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