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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:10 
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That’s not my take on him. I think he’s primarily a narcissist and he probably really thinks he can do this. But I’m pretty sure he can’t, and I’d take some modest joy in seeing him fail.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:51 
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Numbskull

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I think Doc G is almost certainly right on this one, but has anyone else noticed how tricky it can be to distinguish between delusional belief in your own ideas and pure, calculating self-interest?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 13:00 
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Johnson has outright admitted that 20 years of outrage against EU rules was entirely fabricated by him because it made good newspaper copy.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 13:58 
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Cras wrote:
Johnson has outright admitted that 20 years of outrage against EU rules was entirely fabricated by him because it made good newspaper copy.

I’m not saying he genuinely thinks the EU is evil. I am positing he genuinely thinks he can sort this out in such a way that, at the end of it, the country loves him and historians will say nice things about him.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 14:27 
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Would historians be likely to use the term 'Blonde Buffoon?'

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 14:28 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Johnson has outright admitted that 20 years of outrage against EU rules was entirely fabricated by him because it made good newspaper copy.

I’m not saying he genuinely thinks the EU is evil. I am positing he genuinely thinks he can sort this out in such a way that, at the end of it, the country loves him and historians will say nice things about him.


Yes. I was responding to MrC in that, in Johnson's case, it is very easy to see that he is acting out of self-interest rather than conviction.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 16:41 
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To Craster - I totally agree with you in the case of Johnson, I was more thinking of politicians in general. For example, Theresa May, where it might well be delusion (that she actually believes every word she says). With many, if not most, of the others my money would be on career and self-interest. I'm not even sure which is worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 17:55 
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MrC wrote:
To Craster - I totally agree with you in the case of Johnson, I was more thinking of politicians in general. For example, Theresa May, where it might well be delusion (that she actually believes every word she says). With many, if not most, of the others my money would be on career and self-interest. I'm not even sure which is worse.

I don’t know if she even understood half of what she said, let alone believed it. And she did not care enough about the people’s whose lives she ruined to do better.

In interviews she never, ever answered any questions, just gave the 6-10 word repeated phrase she’d been fed before the cameras rolled. She was incompetent as well as evil.

My worry is that her successor will be competently evil.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 18:38 
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Numbskull

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Well, I can't disagree with a single word you said. Maybe I should have chosen a less obvious example.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 20:04 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Johnson has outright admitted that 20 years of outrage against EU rules was entirely fabricated by him because it made good newspaper copy.

I’m not saying he genuinely thinks the EU is evil. I am positing he genuinely thinks he can sort this out in such a way that, at the end of it, the country loves him and historians will say nice things about him.


But if he fucks it up he will still likely be more popular than politicians because he’s got silly hair and said a funny thing on HIGNFY like twenty years ago. And he’ll still have millions upon millions of pounds to fall back on.

There is literally no consequence for failure in the Conservative Party. Absolutely none.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:26 
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Trump in Japan I wonder if the translators translate his gibberish into something logical, or just do it literally.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:51 
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https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status ... 9188385792



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 13:55 
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MaliA wrote:
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1133337679188385792

So Labour, having taken a "position" on Brexit that made it near-impossible for remain-supporters to vote for them in the EU election, have expelled a high-profile remain-supporter for voting for a remain-supporting party. Rather than (as Corbyn keeps saying he will) listening to why party members have voted for other parties, they are just booted out, to where they can be both used as an example to others, and have their views safely ignored in the future.

This seems like a bad move to me as, taken to its ultimate conclusion, it'll lead to a lot of retainers leaving (those who haven't already), or being pushed. Particularly troubling if this happens before Tom Watson gets his members' vote thing going. It also feels like Campbell (not :attitude: ) was an easy choice for punishment for not worshipping at the altar of Jeremy Stormborn, Father of Cauliflowers. I look forward to a letter instructing me to cut my card up, as I voted Green.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 14:07 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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The worst thing about this whole Brexit debacle, is that I now have some sympathy for Alistair fucking Campbell.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 14:48 
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I have no issue with them booting out Campbell for voting for another party. What it does do though is expose the rampant hypocrisy of every decision they've made to not boot somebody out for being a massive wanker. Hooey being one of Farage's number one cheerleaders not the least of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 15:00 
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Trooper wrote:
The worst thing about this whole Brexit debacle, is that I now have some sympathy for Alistair fucking Campbell.

Quite.

I voted Labour in the locals and Lib Dems in the Euros. Good job I’m not a member of either (although I have been in the past).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 22:25 
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I wouldn't even know where to begin replying the local idiots on Facebook.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:06 
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I'd forgotten about Mr Trump's Golden Holiday. How fitting for it to take place in Theresa May's last week as Tory leader. One final self-inflicted indignity.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 18:48 
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Gawd. At lunch with Dad and his friends a few months ago, one of them (the idiot, but still) proclaimed his support for Trump "because he says things - look at what he said about North Korea". That was it. Just saying things. Apply that test and assume it's more widespread than you'd want, and it explains a lot of pronouncements. No need to back them up, no need to worry about any counters made later. Say them, win support. The end.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:16 
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Gogmagog

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https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 9249654786




Well, goodness me.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:49 
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Be interesting to see if this trend continues and isn't a one-off. It looks very plausible at the moment.

Regardless of the need for tactical voting due to the general rubbishness of FPTP, unless things change I won't be voting Labour at the next general election.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:07 
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Can you imagine the chaotic coalition needed if those numbers were the result of a GE? I can't conceive of what the government would look like.

LAB/LIB maybe most likely? Brex/CON nightmare?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:09 
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Isn't that lovely?

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DavPaz wrote:
Can you imagine the chaotic coalition needed if those numbers were the result of a GE? I can't conceive of what the government would look like.

LAB/LIB maybe most likely? Brex/CON nightmare?


Lab/Lib wouldn't be enough from the numbers I saw, it would need SNP too.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:12 
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After the experience of the Coalition, I reckon most parties would go for a simple confidence and supply rather than a formal agreement. It's likely that any arrangement would only be temporary for the purposes of either revoking, referenduming, or withdrawing, and the parliament would only last so long as to complete that work before collapsing.

A shame that people felt burnt by the compromises necessary for coalition government. It's commonplace across the continent, and has functioned happily in Scotland, but until such time as we get used to the idea it's always going to be seen as a Bad Thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:13 
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DavPaz wrote:
Can you imagine the chaotic coalition needed if those numbers were the result of a GE? I can't conceive of what the government would look like.

I'd like to hope it would hammer a final nail into the coffin of two-party politics and FPTP in this country. Perhaps I am too optimistic though.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:20 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Can you imagine the chaotic coalition needed if those numbers were the result of a GE? I can't conceive of what the government would look like.

I'd like to hope it would hammer a final nail into the coffin of two-party politics and FPTP in this country. Perhaps I am too optimistic though.


Oh, I'd love a decent voting system to be the other outcome of any such agreement. We also need a proper re-balancing and restructuring of the constitution too, but opening up all those boxes of worms is likely to cause far more trouble and controversy whilst distracting politicians and parties from resolving the current crisis. I hereby volunteer myself for the Royal Commission...


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:40 
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Gogmagog

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I see Trump is off to a flyer

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:47 
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I find most state visits to be a necessary but deeply embarrassing experience (just look at some of the people Liz has had to host over the years), but this one is probably going to be more cringe-worthy than most.

Sadly, I don't think being photographed with Mr Trump is going to harm potential Tory leaders' chances amongst the Conservative heartlands.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 18:16 
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MaliA wrote:
I see Trump is off to a flyer


I was hoping that meant they just chucked him out of Air Force 1


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 19:05 
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Thanks

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Watch a very stable genius at work.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status ... 9077721095



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 13:28 
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Two heads are better than one

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May's progress

Strong and Stable
I'll leave for the next election
Okay I'll leave
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Well I'll leave when the person who replaces me can command "The confidence of the Commons"

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 13:32 
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Makes sense really. Otherwise you could have an immediate confidence vote in the new leader and it would start over again.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 13:33 
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SavyGamer

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Why didn't she say that when she announced her resignation.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 14:50 
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Mr Chonks wrote:
Makes sense really. Otherwise you could have an immediate confidence vote in the new leader and it would start over again.


That's be a waste of time, no one has confidence in ANY of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:13 
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Gogmagog

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -hold-seat

I see Labour scrape through with much the same majority on a smaller number of votes. Policyless Brexit party came second.

As a vaguely interesting side note, it seems that the bloc voting amongst Asian communities has popped up again.
Quote:
Brexit party insiders said Labour’s reliance upon a mainly Pakistani vote in inner-city wards had been the difference between the parties. “Some of these houses had 14 people in them registered to vote. It would be interesting to see what proportion voted Labour,” said one.

Labour have denied relying on the city’s Asian voting, and insisted that it was a “racist trope”.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:19 
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Quote:
Labour’s Lisa Forbes says result shows ‘the politics of division will never win’

Yes, the fact that it came second by a very narrow margin clearly shows that.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:58 
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Excellent Painter

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markg wrote:
Quote:
Labour’s Lisa Forbes says result shows ‘the politics of division will never win’

Yes, the fact that it came second by a very narrow margin clearly shows that.

It’s becoming like sport interviews after sports events.
“Ummm, well, we played some sport, as sportily as we could and the sport did/didn’t go as we’d hoped, but that’s sport.”

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:20 
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Thanks

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I had to double check this wasn't a parody.

THE GLOBAL TYRANNY OF THE METRIC SYSTEM.

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1 ... 5868493826



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:45 
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Decapodian

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I didn't realise you'd be prevented from cooking your parents' recipes if you used metric?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 0:00 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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So, out of the 10, what's your prediction?

The lease worst is probably Rory Stewart, but he hasn't got a chance.
Boris won't last, Sajid is in with a shout, but expect it will end up being between hunt and gove, god fucking help us.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:55 
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Trooper wrote:
Boris won't last,

I really hope you're right. Him as PM would just be the icing on the political cake of the last few years. I think Sam Gyimah might have been the best option, and he's gone already.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:03 
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Gogmagog

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Nik wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Boris won't last,

I really hope you're right. Him as PM would just be the icing on the political cake of the last few years. I think Sam Gyimah might have been the best option, and he's gone already.


Did a ring need returning?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:04 
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MaliA wrote:
Nik wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Boris won't last,

I really hope you're right. Him as PM would just be the icing on the political cake of the last few years. I think Sam Gyimah might have been the best option, and he's gone already.


Did a ring need returning?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:08 
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:D


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 16:34 
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Sleepyhead

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Trooper wrote:
So, out of the 10, what's your prediction?

The lease worst is probably Rory Stewart, but he hasn't got a chance.
Boris won't last, Sajid is in with a shout, but expect it will end up being between hunt and gove, god fucking help us.


It’s a sad day when the least worst has two key policies, which are:

Put May’s Deal back to Parliament for another vote, and
Compulsory national service for teenagers

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 16:44 
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Gogmagog

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I am totally onboard with child soldiers and conscription from 3 years right now

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 18:36 
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Compulsory national service is about the most expensive thing you could think of to do with teenagers. Getting rid of university fees and bringing back maintenance grants would be a drop in the ocean.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 18:44 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Mali's child wouldn't be in his house, is I believe the more relevant factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:12 
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Gogmagog

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https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1138748219826028547




Oh

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:40 
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Does it matter where it is? Everyone knows that runways have to be made facing away from the wind so that the planes get blown along them.


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