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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 16:22 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Mr Chonks wrote:
Wow, I’ve literally never heard this facile argument before. Please continue to blow my mind


Maybe stop making assumptions about people then, and you won't get that response?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 16:25 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Numbers!

Paisley had 20k vote majority, the other candidates total combined votes were 20k. 7.5k votes were needed to force a rerun which is 4/10 of people that didn't vote for him. It failed by 444.

Onasanya had a majority of less than 700,:and 25k people voted against her rather than for her, so 20k wanting her to get gone, especially after time in prison for perverting the course of justice is quite a lot.. It was 27%, more than twice the required 10%

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 16:26 
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Gogmagog

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Malc wrote:
Black politicians get far more abuse than white ones and face harsher scrutiny for their actions
Female politicians get far more abuse than male ones and face harsher scrutiny for their actions
Left leaning politicians face harsher scrutiny for their actions than right leaning one (in the MSM)

I don't know if this black, female left leaning politician has been recalled because she is those things, but I think it's more likely to happen to her than a white male, right leaning politician.


I think being jailed for perverting the course of justice and having a tiny majority were the main drivers here

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 16:34 
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Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Wow, I’ve literally never heard this facile argument before. Please continue to blow my mind


Maybe stop making assumptions about people then, and you won't get that response?

It was a reasonable assumption. If you are not a white male for the purposes of the discussion of invisible privilege when it comes to race and gender then I apologise profusely.

Or you could stop derailing and deflecting—up to you, fella.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 17:10 
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ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
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Mr Chonks wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Wow, I’ve literally never heard this facile argument before. Please continue to blow my mind


Maybe stop making assumptions about people then, and you won't get that response?

It was a reasonable assumption. If you are not a white male for the purposes of the discussion of invisible privilege when it comes to race and gender then I apologise profusely.

Or you could stop derailing and deflecting—up to you, fella.


White male, straight, middle class was what you complained about being labelled as, after you had literally just labelled me as that. Yet it's white male that is the issue, are you not a white male?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 17:30 
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Can't re-member

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Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Wow, I’ve literally never heard this facile argument before. Please continue to blow my mind


Maybe stop making assumptions about people then, and you won't get that response?

It was a reasonable assumption. If you are not a white male for the purposes of the discussion of invisible privilege when it comes to race and gender then I apologise profusely.

Or you could stop derailing and deflecting—up to you, fella.


White male, straight, middle class was what you complained about being labelled as, after you had literally just labelled me as that. Yet it's white male that is the issue, are you not a white male?

No complaint, it was an aside. My main point followed, which you roundly ignored. Because you’re continuing to deflect. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 17:58 
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ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
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Mr Chonks wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Mr Chonks wrote:
Wow, I’ve literally never heard this facile argument before. Please continue to blow my mind


Maybe stop making assumptions about people then, and you won't get that response?

It was a reasonable assumption. If you are not a white male for the purposes of the discussion of invisible privilege when it comes to race and gender then I apologise profusely.

Or you could stop derailing and deflecting—up to you, fella.


White male, straight, middle class was what you complained about being labelled as, after you had literally just labelled me as that. Yet it's white male that is the issue, are you not a white male?

No complaint, it was an aside. My main point followed, which you roundly ignored. Because you’re continuing to deflect. :)


It's ok dude, you've made it perfectly clear that you are more enlightened than the rest of us on this topic, based purely on your own assumptions of us, regardless of what any of our own experiences may be.

It's pointless to try and talk to you about it, as you won't change now :) I'll just go on being a deflecting gammon in your eyes.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 18:42 
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Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
Posts: 12788
Malc wrote:
Black politicians get far more abuse than white ones and face harsher scrutiny for their actions
Female politicians get far more abuse than male ones and face harsher scrutiny for their actions
Left leaning politicians face harsher scrutiny for their actions than right leaning one (in the MSM)

I don't know if this black, female left leaning politician has been recalled because she is those things, but I think it's more likely to happen to her than a white male, right leaning politician.


Fiona Onasanya was recalled after she was found guilty of perverting the course of justice after setting up elaborate lies that saw her and her brother both convicted - she got 3 months and her brother 10 months. She refused to resign her seat despite being found guilty of dishonesty offences. She wasted precious court time and court resources appealing her case and was resounding told to bugger off by the Court of Appeal.

She’s a convicted criminal, she’s dishonest and the fact that people petitioned to get rid of this scumbag has fuck all to do with the colour of her face or her fanny or her political leanings.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 19:45 
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There are uncontested sitting tenants in our locals - and they haven't produced a ballot, which means we can't go and spoil them.

That can't be right can it?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 20:05 
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Gogmagog

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Voted Green. Kriss Cringle of UKIP can do one.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 20:19 
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Decapodian

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BikNorton wrote:
There are uncontested sitting tenants in our locals - and they haven't produced a ballot, which means we can't go and spoil them.

That can't be right can it?


Seems a sensible money saving decision to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 23:58 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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I was going to watch the election results, but I just can't face it. All the coverage is about Brexit, the pollsters are saying that the public are voting due to their opinion on Brexit.

It's fucking local elections! You're voting for who organises the fucking bin collection! Pick a person who will do what you want done in your local community. Fucking Brexit, fucking idiots.
I can't vote because my local council fucked up so badly they can't afford to even run an election, it's all just a very poor joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 0:12 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Early doors, but Labour not doing so well. Libs and Greens doing much better. Cons and UKIP neutral

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:17 
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Isn't that lovely?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Too tired to continue, will pick it up in, 4.5 hours *sobs*

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:02 
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Gogmagog

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Trooper wrote:
I was going to watch the election results, but I just can't face it. All the coverage is about Brexit, the pollsters are saying that the public are voting due to their opinion on Brexit.

It's fucking local elections! You're voting for who organises the fucking bin collection! Pick a person who will do what you want done in your local community. Fucking Brexit, fucking idiots.
I can't vote because my local council fucked up so badly they can't afford to even run an election, it's all just a very poor joke.


"will you vote for me"
"No, because the party you are in are (whatever). Change that and I very much would"

And then they go away and feed back this to the party who say "doing this cost us this, and we see it over a wide area" and then the policy gets changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:09 
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Overheard someone moaning that they weren't going to bother voting because "there's not even the Brexit party on there".


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:20 
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markg wrote:
Overheard someone moaning that they weren't going to bother voting because "there's not even the Brexit party on there".


If they're so opposed to the European Union I trust they'll boycott the elections on a matter of principle.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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MaliA wrote:
Trooper wrote:
I was going to watch the election results, but I just can't face it. All the coverage is about Brexit, the pollsters are saying that the public are voting due to their opinion on Brexit.

It's fucking local elections! You're voting for who organises the fucking bin collection! Pick a person who will do what you want done in your local community. Fucking Brexit, fucking idiots.
I can't vote because my local council fucked up so badly they can't afford to even run an election, it's all just a very poor joke.


"will you vote for me"
"No, because the party you are in are (whatever). Change that and I very much would"

And then they go away and feed back this to the party who say "doing this cost us this, and we see it over a wide area" and then the policy gets changed.


Fair point, well made.
I was very frustrated last night, but have woken up in a better mood after seeing the results so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:32 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Trooper wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Trooper wrote:
I was going to watch the election results, but I just can't face it. All the coverage is about Brexit, the pollsters are saying that the public are voting due to their opinion on Brexit.

It's fucking local elections! You're voting for who organises the fucking bin collection! Pick a person who will do what you want done in your local community. Fucking Brexit, fucking idiots.
I can't vote because my local council fucked up so badly they can't afford to even run an election, it's all just a very poor joke.


"will you vote for me"
"No, because the party you are in are (whatever). Change that and I very much would"

And then they go away and feed back this to the party who say "doing this cost us this, and we see it over a wide area" and then the policy gets changed.


Fair point, well made.
I was very frustrated last night, but have woken up in a better mood after seeing the results so far.


Labour seem to be saying, from the very brief look I have had, that it is because they haven't been Leave enough and that is why they have done poorly.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:42 
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ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
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Lib Dems are crowing over a false dawn. As much as I would like to think they are actually back, they are the protest vote this time around. Be interesting to see how they do at the European elections.

Good to see ukip aren't gaining and green are.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:58 
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If there was a UKIP or Brexit Party box on every ballot paper that they would have stormed it, sadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:03 
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Gogmagog

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markg wrote:
If there was a UKIP or Brexit Party box on every ballot paper that they would have stormed it, sadly.


UKIP got 243 votes here. Green 340

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:56 
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Trooper, going to bed angry last night wrote:
It's fucking local elections! You're voting for who organises the fucking bin collection! Pick a person who will do what you want done in your local community. Fucking Brexit, fucking idiots.
I can't vote because my local council fucked up so badly they can't afford to even run an election, it's all just a very poor joke.


Yes, it would be better if people paid attention to local issues and voted on that. But the system's really complicated (even I struggle to remember which issues are district and which are county!), and the money and powers just aren't there for much variation or policy innovation.

I've always been a fan of elected mayors with clear powers because although there's the risk of increased corruption and putting power in one person is usually not a good idea, at least the public have a clear idea of who's in charge and how to remove them for under-performance or dodgy dealings. But I'm in a minority on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:10 
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ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
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The best form of government is a benevolent dictator.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:16 
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Trooper wrote:
The best form of government is a benevolent dictator.


I don't think even the greatest and most benevolent of rulers could solve Oxford's transport problems.

The best emperor was Norton, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:16 
SupaMod
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Est. 1978

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Trooper wrote:
The best form of government is a benevolent dictator.

Banned.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:26 
8-Bit Champion
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Two heads are better than one

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Trooper wrote:
The best form of government is a benevolent dictator.


Quote:
Morporkians are in no doubt that Vetinari is firmly in charge of the city; the political system of Ankh-Morpork is described as "One Man, One Vote," in which Vetinari alone is the Man, and he has the Vote.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:35 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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JRM now has a lib dem councilor, which is amusing.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:15 
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SavyGamer

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My mum won and Labour took control of Trafford.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:23 
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LewieP wrote:
My mum won and Labour took control of Trafford.


Congrats to your mum Lewie!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:37 
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Kern wrote:
Trooper wrote:
The best form of government is a benevolent dictator.


I don't think even the greatest and most benevolent of rulers could solve Oxford's transport problems.

The best emperor was Norton, of course.
cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 13:06 
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According to the Guardian's scrolly news page thing, Theresa May's just said that the local election results show voters are telling the Conservatives and Labour to "get on with Brexit".

Giphy "comically missing the point":
https://media1.giphy.com/media/l3UcqjMBeQzXaoqGI/giphy-loop.mp4

EDIT: a bit literal there, Giph-chum.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 18:55 
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Gogmagog

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -mcdonnell

Corbyn is an idiot

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 19:36 
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@kern I think I just said the same thing in t'other thread. Separation of powers it's getting a bit complicated.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 19:44 
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BikNorton wrote:
@kern I think I just said the same thing in t'other thread. Separation of powers it's getting a bit complicated.


It's testament to how Brexit has come to dominate our political banter and debate at the expense of all other issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 16:19 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Reading pistonheads, someone posted a link to the yougov polls that show 55% of people currently back remain.

The following reply was posted, with no sense of irony...
"It can hardly be called a definitive victory for "remain" if they secure 55% of the vote."

Amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 16:36 
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Trooper wrote:
"It can hardly be called a definitive victory for "remain" if they secure 55% of the vote.".


:attitude:


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 18:14 
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Decapodian

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Trooper wrote:
Reading pistonheads, someone posted a link to the yougov polls that show 55% of people currently back remain.

The following reply was posted, with no sense of irony...
"It can hardly be called a definitive victory for "remain" if they secure 55% of the vote."

Amazing.


I find Pistonheads to be quite an unpleasant place to interact with.

Aside from the really shitty forum software there, it's absolutely chock full of that sort of right wing intolerant nonsense and once you've been there for a while you can predict how every single discussion will turn out.

It's a shame, as I'd like to find a decent general motoring related forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 18:43 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Reading pistonheads, someone posted a link to the yougov polls that show 55% of people currently back remain.

The following reply was posted, with no sense of irony...
"It can hardly be called a definitive victory for "remain" if they secure 55% of the vote."

Amazing.


I find Pistonheads to be quite an unpleasant place to interact with.

Aside from the really shitty forum software there, it's absolutely chock full of that sort of right wing intolerant nonsense and once you've been there for a while you can predict how every single discussion will turn out.

It's a shame, as I'd like to find a decent general motoring related forum.


Yeah, I only keep going back as i've been on there for about 15 years now, back when it was actually likeminded car folks, so it's more out of habit than anything else. Any non-motoring forums have become a right wing echo chamber now, which is a huge shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 13:15 
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https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/john- ... ustry/amp/

Quote:
Labour Government could pay less than one-third of the water industry’s market value to bring it back into public hands, the shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has said.


Not sure I like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 13:27 
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School is a 'fourth emergency service.'

I think I see a government strategy here. Just keep making cuts, sack some of the people who are helping the disadvantaged so they become disadvantaged as well, then they'll start starving to death while they wait for their Universal Credit to come through and the we can cut even more funding. The downward spiral will continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 13:29 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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MaliA wrote:
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/john-mcdonnell-puts-price-on-renationalising-the-water-industry/amp/

Quote:
Labour Government could pay less than one-third of the water industry’s market value to bring it back into public hands, the shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has said.


Not sure I like this.

It is statements like this that give the absolute underlining as to why Labour at the top make one noise about brexit, and on the other hand do nothing to stop it. This would be absolutely unachievable within the EU, and also under any international treaties which may be affected. The biggest noises against TITP were around the NHS (much of which was made up hysteria, but the argument went that TITP would mean we had to sell the NHS and wouldn't be able to get it back).

This would also prevent a business being renationalised at a third of its' market value (and rightly so, in my eyes, regardless as to whether privatising the water bodies was a good idea in the first place which is rather debatable)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:58 
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The ban on performing animals at the circus passed second reading yesterday, with plenty of cross-party agreement.

Speaking of circuses, a couple of Bercows from our favourite ringmaster for you:

A new way to select MPs to speak:

Quote:
Four Members whose surnames begin with an S. I call Mr Barry Sheerman.


And more traditional fare

Quote:
I trust the hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) will go about his business with an additional glint in his eye and spring in his step, buoyed by knowledge of the approbation he has received from the Minister on the Treasury Bench describing him as “wise”; I have a feeling it will be framed and appear in an important and public part of the hon. Gentleman’s home.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:00 
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Not surprised by Johnny Mercer's decision to quit. When he was on 'Have I Got News For You' the other week he looked deeply unhappy, even before Hislop's the five minute interrogation over payments.

The issue around investigations of former soldiers during the Troubles has been brewing for a while in Tory circles (at least from what I gather from the press and conversations with Tory friends, especially ex-military ones). I don't feel informed enough to form a proper opinion, other than some vague general sense about the need for all sides to work to understand the truth and seek reconcilation no matter how uncomfortable dealing with the past and individuals' actions make us.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:15 
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Gogmagog

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I see Danny Baker has left the BBC

Check out @BBCBreaking’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/ ... 2019875840



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:35 
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There's a surprising lack of self-awareness in that. Unless he's an actual racist.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:50 
SupaMod
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Didn't they already fire him twenty years ago?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:51 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 26874
Location: Kidbrooke
Kern wrote:
Not surprised by Johnny Mercer's decision to quit. When he was on 'Have I Got News For You' the other week he looked deeply unhappy, even before Hislop's the five minute interrogation over payments.

The issue around investigations of former soldiers during the Troubles has been brewing for a while in Tory circles (at least from what I gather from the press and conversations with Tory friends, especially ex-military ones). I don't feel informed enough to form a proper opinion, other than some vague general sense about the need for all sides to work to understand the truth and seek reconcilation no matter how uncomfortable dealing with the past and individuals' actions make us.


I think Mercer is a massive dick.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:14 
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Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 47916
Most people think Mercer is a massive dick

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GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:14 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Location: West Yorkshire
I find him to be quite vain.

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