Political Banter and Debate Thread

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:39

Kern wrote:

I'm sure the other Commonwealth leaders will be thrilled that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom hopes they'll stop talking about the Windrush maladministrative clusterfuck and discuss drinking straws instead.

"but..but the straws.....Blue planet.....This is what they wanted..." will be the final words of her tenancy at Number 10.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/9 ... 7611820033

Private Eye at its best pic.twitter.com/r6jvfDJnlZ
— Henry Mance (@henrymance) April 18, 2018

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

This is some fucking weaksauce attempt to rehabilitate May's image from her former lieutenant.

https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status ... 8283618305

In my column today I also reveal the truth about the notorious "go home or face arrest vans": TM was opposed to them and they were approved while she was on holiday in 2013. pic.twitter.com/E9RYGldCcB
— Nick Timothy (@NickJTimothy) April 19, 2018

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:01

You're the Home Secretary. If you blocked it, it doesn't happen. Either she had absolutely no control over her junior ministers or officials, was deliberately vague in her phrasing, or she didn't, in fact, block it.

I'm still trying to find the right phrasing to express how genuinely angry I am about all of this.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6510

It's ok, she's not racist, just incompetent!

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22266

Kern wrote:

You're the Home Secretary. If you blocked it, it doesn't happen. Either she had absolutely no control over her junior ministers or officials, was deliberately vague in her phrasing, or she didn't, in fact, block it.

All of the above I expect. The civil servants generally ignore their ministers for the most part, as they get in the way of doing the job and there will be a new one along in a minute anyway. Unless something specifically gets mentioned in the HoC as a concrete commitment, it gets ignored and they carry on as normal.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16558

She was the home secretary, if she cared then she could have sacked the people who so clearly exceeded their authority and had every van taken off the streets the same day she found out, not "later that year". Absolute fucking codswallop.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12

MaliA wrote:

Labour pushing for the young vote again but I'm not sure how it is possible to square away "[restoring] the principle that a decent home is a right owed to all, not a privilege for the few. And the only way to deliver on that right for everyone, regardless of income, is through social housing” with removing the right to buy.

Not against the right to buy in principle, but there should be a one out-two in policy to ensure sufficient housing stock.

Quote:

And they are pushing the "buying land at below market value from private individuals/companies" to build houses on (a bit of land is, say £200k as a field, but with residential planning permission it is £1MM, they will compulsory purchase it for the £200k regardless of status of planning.

If you've got permission to build on a plot, and have already seen the increase in value, perhaps you should have a set deadline to make real on the promise to build rather than just hold on to it?

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:27

Kern wrote:

If you've got permission to build on a plot, and have already seen the increase in value, perhaps you should have a set deadline to make real on the promise to build rather than just hold on to it?

What if you're holding onto it specifically because you don't want a block of flats dropped on it?

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:36

Don't sell the land? Seek a different designation in the local plan? Agree to something else useful with it? Bury industrial waste in it to muck up your family business 40 years later and annoy Adam Macy even more?

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:42

Kern wrote:

Don't sell the land?

You don't have a choice.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:01

What I'm unsure about is why people with planning permission on a site don't have to act on it within a reasonable timescale, in exchange for getting the mark up on the land.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6510

Planning permission expires after a few years, doesn't it? Although I imagine getting it back is easier than getting it the first time.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:12

Ah, right. Seems I know as much about land policy as Mr Corbyn...

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Squirt wrote:

Planning permission expires after a few years, doesn't it? Although I imagine getting it back is easier than getting it the first time.

I think it's sometimes open to negotiation but you typically have to commence work within three years or the permission lapses. eg. I have open right now a PDF regarding a five-storey apartment block being built behind a house we're hopefully viewing on the weekend. It says, under Conditions, "The development hereby permitted shall be begun before the expiration of three years from the date of this permission.".

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:50

As far as I'm aware, all you have to do is dig a single foundation hole.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:00

Grim... wrote:

As far as I'm aware, all you have to do is dig a single foundation hole.

If memory serves, yes. Maybe even as little as flagging out the ground.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:02

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/986644787611820033

It is as if he is playing to a specific audience at specific times to keep an image going.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status ... 5179303936

SCOOP: Theresa May was told about the "Go Home" van plan at least four months before it happened. Her response... https://t.co/YFBHOxqFaI pic.twitter.com/bWiuvrjq4V
— Robert Hutton (@RobDotHutton) April 19, 2018

https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status ... 3130563584

The "Go Home" van plan was called Operation Vaken. I presume (but don't know) that this is why... pic.twitter.com/EDJ0UnpMAX
— Robert Hutton (@RobDotHutton) April 19, 2018

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2018 21:41

Presumably "Transit" was considered too strong.

JBR · **Joined:** 2nd Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 3214

What an absolute disgrace. She has sailed close to the 'lie' line before, but never quite so disingenuously as this. You'll be able to assign deliberate untruths to every member of the cabinet soon.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:01

How embarrassing it must be for Charlie to have his mum beg her friends to give him a job.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2018 13:32

Kern wrote:

How embarrassing it must be for Charlie to have his mum beg her friends to give him a job.

The boy got it. All about who you know, isn't it?

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2018 23:13

MaliA wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Sir Taxalot wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Does smack a bit of nimbyness though. It's got to be somewhere.

It's more fitting in a shittier village though, where house prices are already low.

Basically, yes

Lovely.

At what loint should one stop tolerating aggressive begging and discarded needles?

Walking down the road last night and boke came up to me last night and wanted money so I told him I didn't have any change and he told me to "Piss off" then followed me for a bit. Long story short, I've asked local police and counciller what the plan is to deal with such aggressive begging.

I had a chat with the policeman dude and he thinks he knows who it is and they're working towards criminal asbos and the like. It remains a discussion point as to what help the state and private citizens should provide.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... he_public/

Quote:

Last weekend Shipley Neighbourhood Policing Team had issued five dispersal orders to aggressive beggars in Saltaire and Shipley but by that night, two had breached the orders.

Shipley MP Philip Davies said the conviction was good news. “Aggressive begging is certainly an issue in Shipley which intimidates shoppers, particularly elderly people and deters people from coming into the town centre which then damages all shops and businesses. It is an issue I have raised in the House of Commons,” he said.

“I very much welcome this conviction and hope that Bradford Council and West Yorkshire Police do everything they can to tackle it.”

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/stat ... 1964879872

"We can deport first and hear appeals later."

Theresa May, 2013. #bbcqt #Windrush pic.twitter.com/rt8Y497rIy
— I was a JSA claimant (@imajsaclaimant) April 19, 2018

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:34

I'm disappointed but not surprised that Mrs May didn't just reply to David Treddinck's question about using homeopathy on the NHS with a simple 'no, because it's all bollocks'. Sir Humphrey would be proud of the circumlocution she uses to reach the same conclusion:

The Prime Minister wrote:

My hon. Friend has been a long-standing advocate in this House for homeopathy. Obviously, some patients who are treated in the NHS and the private sector are users of complementary and alternative therapies, but it is the responsibility of the local NHS to make decisions on the commissioning and funding of healthcare treatments and to take account of issues with safety, clinical and cost-effectiveness and the availability of suitably qualified and regulated practitioners. As regards all the issues he has addressed, it is right that those who are professionally able to make these judgments are left to make them.

Hansard

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2018 13:30

Amber Rudd has today scrapped the deportation targets that didn't exist yesterday.

JBR · **Joined:** 2nd Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 3214

Can we start insisting on adding 'serial failure' to her yet? (Eyes passim.)

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 5592062977

GDP shock: UK economic growth almost grinds to halt in first three months... 0.1% GDP growth in Q1 2018 - worst figure for six years pic.twitter.com/MTKaJP62FW
— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) April 27, 2018

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:03

"0.1% GDP growth in Q1 2018"
That's not a fucking halt, is it?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Grim... wrote:

"0.1% GDP growth in Q1 2018"
That's not a fucking halt, is it?

"almost grinds to a halt"

And in the context of q-o-q GDP, that's fair. Look at the historical graph: it's objectively low.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:07

Oh yeah. Carry on!

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Grim... wrote:

Oh yeah. Carry on!

"Not reading one whole tweet" is a new low for Beex Attention Deficit Disorder.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:17

Tweets are long now.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6510

Is the 0.1% growth corrected for inflation? Also, our population must be growing at over 0.1% a quarter

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

This is just... wow. The body language.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status ... 3074964480

When grandpa's telling the same stories again and you can't get him off the phone pic.twitter.com/GfCAfksEJJ
— The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) April 26, 2018

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Rudd's "blame the civil servants, I didn't know" strategy isn't working out so well

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Quote:

Amber Rudd’s insistence that she knew nothing of Home Office targets for immigration removals risks unravelling following the leak of a secret internal document prepared for her and other senior ministers.

The six-page memo, passed to the Guardian, says the department has set “a target of achieving 12,800 enforced returns in 2017-18” and boasts that “we have exceeded our target of assisted returns”.

It adds that progress has been made on a “path towards the 10% increased performance on enforced returns, which we promised the home secretary earlier this year”.

The document was prepared by Hugh Ind, the director general of the Home Office’s Immigration Enforcement agency, in June last year and copied to Rudd and Brandon Lewis, the then immigration minister, as well as several senior civil servants and special advisers.

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

This is just... wow. The body language.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status ... 3074964480

When grandpa's telling the same stories again and you can't get him off the phone pic.twitter.com/GfCAfksEJJ
— The Daily Show (@TheDailyShow) April 26, 2018

And the unstoppable bullshit.

At leat he wasnt in the studio to brush dandruff off their colars. No matter where he finds himself, he HAS to score points against the people he’s with.

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Rudd's "blame the civil servants, I didn't know" strategy isn't working out so well

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Quote:

Amber Rudd’s insistence that she knew nothing of Home Office targets for immigration removals risks unravelling following the leak of a secret internal document prepared for her and other senior ministers.

The six-page memo, passed to the Guardian, says the department has set “a target of achieving 12,800 enforced returns in 2017-18” and boasts that “we have exceeded our target of assisted returns”.

It adds that progress has been made on a “path towards the 10% increased performance on enforced returns, which we promised the home secretary earlier this year”.

The document was prepared by Hugh Ind, the director general of the Home Office’s Immigration Enforcement agency, in June last year and copied to Rudd and Brandon Lewis, the then immigration minister, as well as several senior civil servants and special advisers.

Well, a new conservative car crash WAS overdue.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2018 16:57

Warhead wrote:

At leat he wasnt in the studio to brush dandruff off their colars. No matter where he finds himself, he HAS to score points against the people he’s with.

And that's part of what made him president, so I guess it worked out.

For him.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5149

The odd thing is that it doesn’t seem unreasonable to have KPIs for removing illegal immigrants, any more than it would be wrong to track convicting criminals or treating sick people. It’s a straightforward way of measuring the core function of that department.

The detail of how it’s measured and incentivised can be a bad thing, and giving incorrect information to parliament is a major cock up, but the basic principal seems fine.

Malc · **Posted:** Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:05

KPIs are for lazy managers who don't actually know what their teams are doing and nearly always lead to people working to the KPI rather than what is actually the main point of their job.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Brilliant:

https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/990328549952253952

#recap The brilliant Jacob Rees-Mogg takedown we all wish weâ€™d writtenhttps://t.co/om8MTmAjiw pic.twitter.com/Gbhj8xRdUb
— The Poke (@ThePoke) April 28, 2018

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Thread on the increasingly Byzantine mess Rudd is in:

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 2236995585

Argument has now changed in 24 hours from:

Home Sec did not see the leaked targets document, to... â€œtargetsâ€ referred to in the document werenâ€™t targets, but were in her eyes an â€œambitionâ€, which she was aware of, because she set them, but didnâ€™t see the document, in any event.
— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) April 29, 2018

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

Aaaaaaaand she’s resigned. Good move, to avoid having to answer questions tomorrow about removal targets that she was informed about by officials some time ago, and more damning official documents revealed in the press, and ‘claims she misled parliament over targets.’

Thats what you get with the full support from the PM.

Kern · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:03

Deserves to go for misleading Parliament and not taking responsibility for her department. But all this started under the previous incumbent, who is probably far more to blame for this scandal.

Still, another remainer on the backbenches with no real reason to show particular loyalty to the Prime Minister just as key votes start coming up.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:49

I’m fairly sure they will blame it on the last Labour government.

Kern · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:59

Curiosity wrote:

I’m fairly sure they will blame it on the last Labour government.

Pretty sure Major Attlee's administration had something to do with it.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16558

I don't think they need to worry too much. It'll all blow over in a week or two and they can just carry on as though nothing had happened. The Great British Public voted to get rid of foreigners and will understand if some of the wrong ones get kicked out by accident.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5149

And now my MP is Home Secretary.

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