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Political Banter and Debate Thread
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024
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Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

No stamp duty for first time buyers on houses under £300k; no stamp duty on the first £300k on houses up to £500k.

Definition of "first time buyers", like Help To Buy and the Lifetime ISA, is "people who have never owned property." I bought a house in Wales in Jan 2006 which I had to sell at a loss to move to London; I have no equity, yet am excluded from all these schemes.

Author:  Squirt [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

And that's not going to help the actual problem, really, right? It'll inflate the cost of first-time-suitable houses.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Squirt wrote:
And that's not going to help the actual problem, really, right? It'll inflate the cost of first-time-suitable houses.

Yes, it actually makes it worse for anyone in my position.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
No stamp duty for first time buyers on houses under £300k; no stamp duty on the first £300k on houses up to £500k.

Definition of "first time buyers", like Help To Buy and the Lifetime ISA, is "people who have never owned property." I bought a house in Wales in Jan 2006 which I had to sell at a loss to move to London; I have no equity, yet am excluded from all these schemes.


That's balls. Sorry to hear that.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

£3 billion for Brexit preparations. Can't we spend it on the NHS instead?

Author:  markg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Do both. Just borrow a load of money now and then pay it back using all the extra cash we're going to have after Brexit!

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Those growth prediction cuts are savage. Real world pay cuts for all for at least another 4 years.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Curiosity wrote:
Those growth prediction cuts are savage. Real world pay cuts for all for at least another 4 years.


'Project Fear'.

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Stop being perpetually deluded and stupid people. Cavey has said things are great. We must believe him.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Curiosity wrote:
Those growth prediction cuts are savage. Real world pay cuts for all for at least another 4 years.


No rise on beer duty though! Hooray!

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was going to post, but really, it’s just all too pathetic for words. I have better things to do with my time than vainly trying to educate the perpetually deluded and/or stupid. Sorry. :)


"You're all too stupid to understand me" is hardly an argument that can be levelled at this forum.

EXCEPT ZARDOZ OBVS.

As regards today's budget I am principally on the look out for further IR35 reforms being rolled out to the private sector effectively ending the industry I currently work in.

You may have missed it, but in the Red Book they've acknowledged for the first time that this is definitely going to happen.

Author:  Trousers [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was going to post, but really, it’s just all too pathetic for words. I have better things to do with my time than vainly trying to educate the perpetually deluded and/or stupid. Sorry. :)


"You're all too stupid to understand me" is hardly an argument that can be levelled at this forum.

EXCEPT ZARDOZ OBVS.

As regards today's budget I am principally on the look out for further IR35 reforms being rolled out to the private sector effectively ending the industry I currently work in.

You may have missed it, but in the Red Book they've acknowledged for the first time that this is definitely going to happen.


It always was really - just a matter of when. I was fearing April 2018 in a bid to accelerate tax receipts, especially when I saw those growth figures, so this is a win for me really - gives me a chance to get out before the hammer falls.

Still - no VAT threshold reduction thank fuck.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Squirt wrote:
And that's not going to help the actual problem, really, right? It'll inflate the cost of first-time-suitable houses.
OBR say exactly this

http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/box/ ... me-buyers/

Quote:
On this basis, post-SDLT prices paid by FTBs would actually be higher with the relief than without it. Thus the main gainers from the policy are people who already own property, not the FTBs themselves. For some potential FTBs with smaller deposits, who are constrained by loan-to-value lending criteria, the relief will enable them to borrow a multiple of their SDLT saving, allowing them to buy properties that they otherwise could not afford – but more expensively.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Author:  Zardoz [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was going to post, but really, it’s just all too pathetic for words. I have better things to do with my time than vainly trying to educate the perpetually deluded and/or stupid. Sorry. :)


"You're all too stupid to understand me" is hardly an argument that can be levelled at this forum.

EXCEPT ZARDOZ OBVS.

As regards today's budget I am principally on the look out for further IR35 reforms being rolled out to the private sector effectively ending the industry I currently work in.

Hey! I understand perfectly well that it's not very good all this stuff like.

Author:  Grim... [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Short of engineering a crash there's not much else they can do, is there?

Author:  Cras [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Short of engineering a crash there's not much else they can do, is there?


Indeed. There needs to be a house price crash, but if one happens, it fucks over homeowners. I have absolutely no idea how you go about addressing that.

Author:  Squirt [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Build a fuck ton of housing?

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Invade France.

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

If anything, that would just bring about a crash which would put a hell of a lot people in hock.

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?

Author:  Grim... [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

But there are a fuck ton of new houses being built!

Author:  Cras [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?


Not really. Interest rates rise to control inflation, and a housing crash wouldn't necessarily cause an inflation spike

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?


Not really. Interest rates rise to control inflation, and a housing crash wouldn't necessarily cause an inflation spike

In that case, as a home owner I welcome a crash if it means other people can afford to buy.

Author:  Squirt [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

There's no way you can build houses quick enough to make a true crash though. Every bloody builder in the UK knocking out 2 bed semi's would hardly send it through the floor.

Author:  markg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?

No, but it would put a substantial number of people in negative equity.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Too easy

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

GazChap wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?

No, but it would put a substantial number of people in negative equity.


Yes. Need to build equity to fund Gork and Mork at Uni and then give them.the cash for a house deposit. Or, if they are too dumb for uni, send them to finishing school so, if they are pretty enough ( spent a lot of money on the aesthetic genes for both of them) at least they have a chance of marrying rich. Then they can use it to buy a house for a horse or whatever.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Too easy


All valid points I put on the last objection I had to houses.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

At least Mr Hammond backed housing and infrastructure developments in the vast empty flatlands between Oxford and the Fens.

I'm really looking forward to getting the last train home from Meatup in the 2030s.

Author:  Grim... [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

markg wrote:
Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?

People are quick to blame the latter but I do often wonder if that's not just "blame the rich people".

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.

Author:  markg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

That might be true in London. But I was thinking of the big increase in the numbers of fairly ordinary people who realised that it was an easy way to make money.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

Not All Rich People klaxon

Author:  Kern [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

It's amazing how much your perspective changes when you move from paying rent to paying a mortgage.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Short of engineering a crash there's not much else they can do, is there?


Sell houses as leasehold with option to buy freehold

Author:  Dr Zoidberg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

Not All Rich People klaxon


Well, yeah. If it isn't "all" then we are into weighing souls territory.

I think buy to let has a lot to answer for

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Grim... wrote:
markg wrote:
Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?

People are quick to blame the latter but I do often wonder if that's not just "blame the rich people".


But the latter is a primary cause of the former.

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.

Author:  Cras [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 19:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

Author:  Cras [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 19:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

The main problem with housing is that you've got something that is simultaneously a necessity and an investment. Can you imagine if the value of vegetables went up over time to match the property price curve?

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.

Author:  myp [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

Capitalism was created by humans, you can't look at it in a vacuum. I'm particularly talking about late-stage capitalism.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Hearthly wrote:
I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


The curry place down the road does okra fries and they are amazing.

Author:  Satsuma [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Everything was created by humans, you div. Any economic system will be human-made unless you’re Dr Dolittle’s counsin who talks to plants and form a plant based economy based on standing very still for long periods.

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