Be Excellent To Each Other :: View topic - Political Banter and Debate Thread

. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?

Cras wrote:

. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?

That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump.

An interesting read here, addressing the old 'How are you going to pay for it?' question that always get levelled at politicians, especially lefty types who like to spend money on nice things for people.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... ay-for-it/

Quote:

We’re not going to pay for it. We’re going to issue debt to pay for it. That’s because people like pension funds, the banking system and prudent savers are exceptionally keen to buy that debt. But more than that, government debt is just money. Read what it says on any bank note and you’ll realise that is true. And a growing economy needs more money and it’s the government’s job to create it. So we will. In that case who will pay? You could say it’s the people who are queuing up to save with the government who will pay. And we’re doing them a favour by letting them do just that.

I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness.

Attachment:

votingreactions.png

“No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.”

Kezia Dugdale urges SNP to 'shun' Wings Over Scotland

Well, that's an appropriate coincidence. Was just reading about New Orleans removing a statue of Robert E Lee when the 'Gone with the Wind' theme came on the radio.

These statues are not just stone and metal. They are not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully celebrate a fictional, sanitized Confederacy; ignoring the death, ignoring the enslavement, and the terror that it actually stood for.

After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone’s lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city.
...
Instead of revering a 4-year brief historical aberration that was called the Confederacy we can celebrate all 300 years of our rich, diverse history as a place named New Orleans and set the tone for the next 300 years.
...
The Confederacy was on the wrong side of history and humanity. It sought to tear apart our nation and subjugate our fellow Americans to slavery. This is the history we should never forget and one that we should never again put on a pedestal to be revered.

"We don't want other leaders and other countries laughing at us anymore - and they won't be."

MaliA wrote:

I fucking hate Nicky Morgan. However, she is better than Diane Abbott whom i also hate.

Do you hate any male politicians?

Yes. Many. Mainly Tory ones, some Labour , most Liberal democrats. The targets of my annoyance are generally those that have been on R4 that morning. They should put Thought for the day on at 0825. That'd cool my jets.

MaliA wrote:

Ever switch over to the Third?

Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.

The US president said he did not want to come if there were large-scale protests and his remarks in effect put the visit on hold for some time.

The call was made in recent weeks, according to a Downing Street adviser who was in the room. The statement surprised May, according to those present.

Quote:

Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/donald-trump-state-visit-to-britain-put-on-hold?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Quote:

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
I would comment about the latest scandal engulfing Mr Trump but they've been coming so thick and fast for weeks/months/years that it's exhausting to both keep up and hope that finally he'll be held to account for it. It's not good for one's health to think about him that much anyway.

Author:	Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
I think it's utterly fascinating. You've got seasoned political commentators with decades of experience just totally confused by where the political landscape is and what is going on. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?

Author:	Mr Russell [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Yes, the reports on the radio this morning were saying "The White House has denied the allegations." Well of course they have, even if they're true they just make their own version of the truth, and tell you to stop living in the past when it takes you longer than a few days to investigate the latest thing that would have seen any other administration kicked out and jailed.

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Cras wrote: . It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored? That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump.

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Kern wrote: Cras wrote: . It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored? That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump. Although the only shrewdness I detect on Mr Trump's part is that of a dodgy car salesman, not a modern Machiavelli.

Be Excellent To Each Other https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Political Banter and Debate Thread https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024	Page 205 of 287

Author:	DavPaz [ Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
You see, running a superpower is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman...

Author:	Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
There will be a tipping point. If Trump makes it through the year, there's going to be a lot of congressional republicans looking at the poll numbers for the 2018 election and not liking what they see. They're already past the tipping point of actually having anything to gain from a republican president.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed May 17, 2017 11:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slG2DFIsFok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AteyTNe5I&t=141s As good an explanation as any.

Author:	ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed May 17, 2017 15:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Hearthly wrote: An interesting read here, addressing the old 'How are you going to pay for it?' question that always get levelled at politicians, especially lefty types who like to spend money on nice things for people. http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... ay-for-it/ Quote: We’re not going to pay for it. We’re going to issue debt to pay for it. That’s because people like pension funds, the banking system and prudent savers are exceptionally keen to buy that debt. But more than that, government debt is just money. Read what it says on any bank note and you’ll realise that is true. And a growing economy needs more money and it’s the government’s job to create it. So we will. In that case who will pay? You could say it’s the people who are queuing up to save with the government who will pay. And we’re doing them a favour by letting them do just that. After three years away, I went back to read El Murphs drivel and it is good to note that his normal standard of choosing the facts that he wants to reflect whilst ignoring all others is standing him in good stead. He makes two fundamental points - that issuing debt at historically low interest rates to buy back shares in utilities is effectively free money, because the debt service cost is virtually nil and also, as the borrowing is matched with assets, there is no increase in the deficit. 1 - It may be cheap to borrow today, but no government ever repays its debt - it refinances it. So you can borrow today at 1% but when those bonds come up for redemption, the rate of interest on the replacement debt could be significantly higher. Therefore, arguing to load debt now is a short term view at best. 2 - If you do load up with debt, then your cost of further debt is likely to automatically increase as a result, thus reinforcing point 1. I hate the "Economy as a household" analogy as it is nearly always bullshit, but in this case, I could theoretically go (today) and buy a house twice the price as my current house and keep my mortgage payment the same as I am currently on 4.5%, but will shortly drop to 2% (and that would apply on that theoretical mortgage too). But, when that subsequent fixed term ends, if mortgage rates have returned to normal, I'd be absolutely fucked on the remortgage, so this plan is a terrible idea. Secondly - the idea that the debt is matched by an asset. Yes, kind of. However, the purpose of the buyback is to then impose a not for profit emphasis to the utility provider. But when you buy it, you're paying a price premium for all those lovely profits that the utility generates, that you will immediately strike out on day 1 and devalue your investment, so it absolutely would add to the deficit. So the short, medium and long term analysis that there is no cost to the government of this proposal is incorrect. There may be very, very good reasons to do it, but because it is cost free is not a valid reason.

Author:	Grim... [ Wed May 17, 2017 15:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
People are fed up with experts, Riles.

Author:	Mr Russell [ Wed May 17, 2017 15:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness. Attachment: votingreactions.png

Author:	Dr Zoidberg [ Wed May 17, 2017 16:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Mr Russell wrote: I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness. Attachment: votingreactions.png I've avoided that dilemma by failing to add anyone from work.

Author:	Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 18:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Everything's coming up APoD.

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Mr Trump wrote: “No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.” Guardian Oh dear.

Author:	asfish [ Sat May 20, 2017 16:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Had a conservative drone knock on the door the other night. Was not in the mood as child number 2 screams 22 hours a day. After he had finished asking if I was voting for conservatives etc I said I thought May looked a bit odd. He asked me what I meant and I said I thought she was a robot and that I knew for a fact Thatcher was one and I had evidence in the house I could show him if he wanted to come in. Around the 2nd time, I said Robot he started moving slowly away from me down the drive, then declined my kind offer of tea and Thatcher robot discussions as he had a lot of other doors to knock on. Cheered me up for a while and looking forward to other parties knocking on the door

Author:	Kern [ Thu May 25, 2017 11:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Barack Obama's just doing this to annoy Mr Trump, isn't he? Guardian:Barack Obama draws crowd of tens of thousands in Berlin

Author:	markg [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 13:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Well at least the economy is holding up fine and that's the main thi..., oh: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 66286.html Sensible, grown-up, strong, stable, control.

Author:	Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Gabrielle Giffords probably disagrees. Also Oliver Cromwell.

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Poor old Emperor Maximilian. And of course, remember Aed!

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
And Pontius Pilate.

Author:	zaphod79 [ Thu May 18, 2017 17:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-39962595 Quote: Kezia Dugdale urges SNP to 'shun' Wings Over Scotland

Author:	MrChris [ Thu May 18, 2017 20:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
"We .... we .... we" What a fucking tool.

Author:	Grim... [ Thu May 18, 2017 21:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
It clearly wasn't homophobic.

Author:	Kern [ Sat May 20, 2017 8:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Well, that's an appropriate coincidence. Was just reading about New Orleans removing a statue of Robert E Lee when the 'Gone with the Wind' theme came on the radio.

Author:	Findus Fop [ Mon May 22, 2017 18:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Boris receives a past(y)ing in Cornwall.

Author:	Kern [ Wed May 24, 2017 12:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Kern wrote: Well, that's an appropriate coincidence. Was just reading about New Orleans removing a statue of Robert E Lee when the 'Gone with the Wind' theme came on the radio. Oooo.. the mayor of New Orleans has made an excellent speech on this (Vox transcript at end): Quote: These statues are not just stone and metal. They are not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully celebrate a fictional, sanitized Confederacy; ignoring the death, ignoring the enslavement, and the terror that it actually stood for. After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone’s lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city. ... Instead of revering a 4-year brief historical aberration that was called the Confederacy we can celebrate all 300 years of our rich, diverse history as a place named New Orleans and set the tone for the next 300 years. ... The Confederacy was on the wrong side of history and humanity. It sought to tear apart our nation and subjugate our fellow Americans to slavery. This is the history we should never forget and one that we should never again put on a pedestal to be revered. Might listen to it later.

Author:	Zardoz [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 15:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
I've just voted. POSTALLY. Beat that.

Author:	Zardoz [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 16:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Yeah. Didn't think so.

Author:	markg [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 19:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Did it yesterday, fool.

Author:	Mr Dave [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 19:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
I did it at some point last week. Lets hope nothing happens that'll cause me to want to change my mind, eh?

Author:	Kern [ Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Mr Trump wrote: "We don't want other leaders and other countries laughing at us anymore - and they won't be." I'm pretty sure North Korea has a similar approach to international diplomacy.

Author:	Kern [ Sun Jun 04, 2017 15:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
I never thought I would see the day when the president of a country I have always loved and respected* insults an elected mayor when his city has just suffered a horrific attack. And we're giving this ghastly man a state visit. *the country, for avoidance of doubt.

Author:	Warhead [ Tue Jun 06, 2017 16:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
But then I bet you never thought that the American people would elect such a complete balm pot to the presidency either.

Author:	Cras [ Tue Jun 06, 2017 17:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
If he's a pot of anything, it's most definitely not balm.

Author:	Kern [ Tue Jun 06, 2017 18:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Agent Orange, morelike.

Author:	Dr Zoidberg [ Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Dianne Abbott is taking an indefinite break as she is useless/unwell - delete as applicable. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40184826

Author:	Hearthly [ Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
Probably for the best. TBH watching some of her recent performances I have wondered if there's more going on than her simply not being very good.