Be Excellent To Each Other
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Political Banter and Debate Thread
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024
Page 205 of 287

Author:  Jem [ Fri May 05, 2017 15:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

DavPaz wrote:
That's cool, people are of course free to vote however they feel, but Tees valley turning blue makes me sick. Short, short memories.


It certainly makes the upcoming general more terrifying (for which I wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it)

Author:  MaliA [ Fri May 05, 2017 16:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Jem wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
That's cool, people are of course free to vote however they feel, but Tees valley turning blue makes me sick. Short, short memories.


It certainly makes the upcoming general more terrifying (for which I wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it)

What if the Tory Council guy stood for MP?

Author:  Peter St. John [ Fri May 05, 2017 16:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I'd say I hope I don't get sick, but my psoriasis probably already marks me out as somebody to be thinned from the herd.

But! We still have the Senate to go, and they seem to be of the mind to start again by writing a new bill from scratch. Meanwhile, the further Left elements continue beating up on the Center (sp) of the Democrats and I'm trying not to point at the UK and scream 'THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO THAT'. But we must have our purity, eh, lads?

Author:  Jem [ Fri May 05, 2017 16:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

MaliA wrote:
Jem wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
That's cool, people are of course free to vote however they feel, but Tees valley turning blue makes me sick. Short, short memories.


It certainly makes the upcoming general more terrifying (for which I wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it)

What if the Tory Council guy stood for MP?


I wouldn't vote for him :shrug: at that point wider issues come into play than local dog fouling and whether or not the main road potholes will be sorted.

Author:  Cras [ Fri May 05, 2017 17:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Peter St. John wrote:
I'd say I hope I don't get sick, but my psoriasis probably already marks me out as somebody to be thinned from the herd.


Pfft. It marks you as one of the chosen.

I have to say, chronic psoriasis has always made me feel so grateful for, and dependent on, the NHS that I applaud your bravery in emigrating.

Author:  Peter St. John [ Fri May 05, 2017 18:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

In one of those bitter ironies, it didn't start until I came over here. Changing jobs lead to the discovery that not all employer-backed insurance schemes are equal - going to Target to be informed that the prescription I was getting for $15 would now be over $400 was…an interesting day!

Author:  TheCookie197 [ Fri May 05, 2017 20:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I can't quite put into words how disappointed I am at how many seats the tories managed to pick up in Scotland. Labour, Lib Dem, Green - anything else would be fine. But the TORIES? Really?

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 05, 2017 20:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

TheCookie197 wrote:
I can't quite put into words how disappointed I am at how many seats the tories managed to pick up in Scotland. Labour, Lib Dem, Green - anything else would be fine. But the TORIES? Really?

Share our pain, oh Caledonian neighbour

Author:  MrChris [ Fri May 05, 2017 21:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Its very disappointing that people are allowed to vote for the party they want to win the election.

Author:  Kern [ Sat May 06, 2017 10:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

According to the Oxford Mail the Green candidate in Oxford West & Abingdon is standing down to help the Liberal Democrats reclaim the seat from the Tories. Not much use to me as I don't live there anymore, but this could be the start of a trend.

Author:  Malc [ Sat May 06, 2017 11:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

The thing is, the Greens are always willing to help, and are one of the leading voices in the progressive alliance talks. It needs the Lib Dems and Labour to reciprocate to have any chance of doing it, and the leaders won't, because they want to be considered as "big parties" and the Tories will start saying "see, I told you, coalition of chaos". So that leaves it down to regional parties deciding to go it alone, and I think it's harder for an individual to stand aside, rather than someone from above telling you to stand aside.

Author:  DavPaz [ Sat May 06, 2017 13:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

MrChris wrote:
Its very disappointing that people are allowed to vote for the party they want to win the election.

It's disappointing that people are allowed to express disappointment with the results

Author:  MrChris [ Sat May 06, 2017 13:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

DavPaz wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Its very disappointing that people are allowed to vote for the party they want to win the election.

It's disappointing that people are allowed to express disappointment with the results
I ... what?

Author:  DavPaz [ Sat May 06, 2017 14:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

EXACTLY

Author:  Kern [ Sun May 07, 2017 21:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

M. Macron wins; France gets to be insufferably smug towards Britain and the USA.

Author:  DavPaz [ Sun May 07, 2017 21:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Phew! The world isn't totally crazy, perhaps

Author:  MrChris [ Sun May 07, 2017 21:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

DavPaz wrote:
EXACTLY

You're an odd boy, Charlie Brown.

Author:  DavPaz [ Sun May 07, 2017 22:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

MrChris wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
EXACTLY

You're an odd boy, Charlie Brown.

You love it

Author:  Kern [ Mon May 08, 2017 17:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I'm currently reading 'More Sex, Lies, and the Ballot Box', edited by Philip Cowley and Robert Ford.

Like its predecessor, it's a collection of short chapters (no more than 1000 words each) on various aspects of political behaviour, from the role of the weather to why young people don't vote.

I wish I'd read a volume like this years ago as it really reminds me how interesting political science, politics, and people can be when written in an accessible style.

Author:  MaliA [ Mon May 08, 2017 19:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Who wants to see P Davies's election bumpf?

Author:  Kern [ Mon May 08, 2017 20:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

You say 'Shipley', I say 'P'.

"Shipley"

"P"

"SHIPLEY!"

"P!"

Author:  MaliA [ Mon May 08, 2017 23:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

You'll have to wait until tomorrow, you dogs.

Author:  Trousers [ Tue May 09, 2017 8:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Prick tease...

Author:  MaliA [ Tue May 09, 2017 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Sorry, was out.

Author:  Trousers [ Tue May 09, 2017 10:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Oh look - a prick.

I like* how the second most important thing on his leaflet is "No to political correctness" because if there's one thing that's at the heart of all society's problems right now it's not being able to say "Gollywog" or point out that women get a really raw deal under the current system.

*find it reprehensible - the prick.

Author:  Kern [ Tue May 09, 2017 17:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Trousers wrote:
I like* how the second most important thing on his leaflet is "No to political correctness" because if there's one thing that's at the heart of all society's problems right now it's not being able to say "Gollywog" or point out that women get a really raw deal under the current system..


On the upside, it means we can call him what we like to his face and he can't complain.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 10, 2017 7:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Mr Trump has fired the FBI director and in the dismissal letter states that he was assured he's not under investigation over Russia. A strange thing to include, because why mention it unless you were concerned people might connect the two?

The USA and the world never had this much fun under his predecessor.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 10, 2017 11:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

CPS aren't bringing charges regarding election spending in 2015. They haven't ruled on Thanet yet, where the Tories were trying to crush Mr Farage.

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed May 17, 2017 7:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

An interesting read here, addressing the old 'How are you going to pay for it?' question that always get levelled at politicians, especially lefty types who like to spend money on nice things for people.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... ay-for-it/

Quote:
We’re not going to pay for it. We’re going to issue debt to pay for it. That’s because people like pension funds, the banking system and prudent savers are exceptionally keen to buy that debt. But more than that, government debt is just money. Read what it says on any bank note and you’ll realise that is true. And a growing economy needs more money and it’s the government’s job to create it. So we will. In that case who will pay? You could say it’s the people who are queuing up to save with the government who will pay. And we’re doing them a favour by letting them do just that.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Isn't this missing the prices part of the velocity of money argument?

MV=PY where M is money supply, V is the velocity (how quickly all exchanges can be carried out), P is prices and Y is output.

So if we keep on increasing the money supply by creating debt and spending it on good stuff, output (Y) or prices (P) must rise to maintain the equilibrium. Or, if P rises, M (or V) must rise.

Of course, the tricky bit in economics is working out M, V, P, Y, and the necessary timescales.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I would comment about the latest scandal engulfing Mr Trump but they've been coming so thick and fast for weeks/months/years that it's exhausting to both keep up and hope that finally he'll be held to account for it.

It's not good for one's health to think about him that much anyway.

Author:  Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I think it's utterly fascinating. You've got seasoned political commentators with decades of experience just totally confused by where the political landscape is and what is going on. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?

Author:  Mr Russell [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Yes, the reports on the radio this morning were saying "The White House has denied the allegations."

Well of course they have, even if they're true they just make their own version of the truth, and tell you to stop living in the past when it takes you longer than a few days to investigate the latest thing that would have seen any other administration kicked out and jailed.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cras wrote:
. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?


That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 10:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?


That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump.


Although the only shrewdness I detect on Mr Trump's part is that of a dodgy car salesman, not a modern Machiavelli.

Author:  DavPaz [ Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

You see, running a superpower is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman...

Author:  Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

There will be a tipping point. If Trump makes it through the year, there's going to be a lot of congressional republicans looking at the poll numbers for the 2018 election and not liking what they see. They're already past the tipping point of actually having anything to gain from a republican president.

Author:  MrChris [ Wed May 17, 2017 11:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slG2DFIsFok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AteyTNe5I&t=141s
As good an explanation as any.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed May 17, 2017 15:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Hearthly wrote:
An interesting read here, addressing the old 'How are you going to pay for it?' question that always get levelled at politicians, especially lefty types who like to spend money on nice things for people.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... ay-for-it/

Quote:
We’re not going to pay for it. We’re going to issue debt to pay for it. That’s because people like pension funds, the banking system and prudent savers are exceptionally keen to buy that debt. But more than that, government debt is just money. Read what it says on any bank note and you’ll realise that is true. And a growing economy needs more money and it’s the government’s job to create it. So we will. In that case who will pay? You could say it’s the people who are queuing up to save with the government who will pay. And we’re doing them a favour by letting them do just that.

After three years away, I went back to read El Murphs drivel and it is good to note that his normal standard of choosing the facts that he wants to reflect whilst ignoring all others is standing him in good stead.

He makes two fundamental points - that issuing debt at historically low interest rates to buy back shares in utilities is effectively free money, because the debt service cost is virtually nil and also, as the borrowing is matched with assets, there is no increase in the deficit.

1 - It may be cheap to borrow today, but no government ever repays its debt - it refinances it. So you can borrow today at 1% but when those bonds come up for redemption, the rate of interest on the replacement debt could be significantly higher. Therefore, arguing to load debt now is a short term view at best.

2 - If you do load up with debt, then your cost of further debt is likely to automatically increase as a result, thus reinforcing point 1.

I hate the "Economy as a household" analogy as it is nearly always bullshit, but in this case, I could theoretically go (today) and buy a house twice the price as my current house and keep my mortgage payment the same as I am currently on 4.5%, but will shortly drop to 2% (and that would apply on that theoretical mortgage too). But, when that subsequent fixed term ends, if mortgage rates have returned to normal, I'd be absolutely fucked on the remortgage, so this plan is a terrible idea.

Secondly - the idea that the debt is matched by an asset. Yes, kind of. However, the purpose of the buyback is to then impose a not for profit emphasis to the utility provider. But when you buy it, you're paying a price premium for all those lovely profits that the utility generates, that you will immediately strike out on day 1 and devalue your investment, so it absolutely would add to the deficit.

So the short, medium and long term analysis that there is no cost to the government of this proposal is incorrect. There may be very, very good reasons to do it, but because it is cost free is not a valid reason.

Author:  Grim... [ Wed May 17, 2017 15:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

People are fed up with experts, Riles.

Author:  Mr Russell [ Wed May 17, 2017 15:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness.
Attachment:
votingreactions.png

Author:  Dr Zoidberg [ Wed May 17, 2017 16:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Mr Russell wrote:
I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness.
Attachment:
votingreactions.png


I've avoided that dilemma by failing to add anyone from work.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed May 17, 2017 17:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Having a rather limited Facebook audience (Hi!), I was limited until last week to only one person with offensive political views. That too resolved itself at the weekend when the intolerable cunt (my wife's sister in law) blocked both me and the wife as part of the snowball of shit that has gradually built over the past two years.

Author:  Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 18:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Everything's coming up APoD.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Mr Trump wrote:
“No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.”

Guardian

Oh dear.

Author:  Cras [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Gabrielle Giffords probably disagrees. Also Oliver Cromwell.

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

Poor old Emperor Maximilian.

And of course, remember Aed!

Author:  Kern [ Wed May 17, 2017 19:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

And Pontius Pilate.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Thu May 18, 2017 17:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-39962595

Quote:
Kezia Dugdale urges SNP to 'shun' Wings Over Scotland

Author:  MrChris [ Thu May 18, 2017 20:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread

"We .... we .... we"

What a fucking tool.

Page 205 of 287 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/