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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:37 
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Decapodian

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Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:37 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

Not All Rich People klaxon


Well, yeah. If it isn't "all" then we are into weighing souls territory.

I think buy to let has a lot to answer for

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:38 
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Sleepyhead

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Grim... wrote:
markg wrote:
Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?

People are quick to blame the latter but I do often wonder if that's not just "blame the rich people".


But the latter is a primary cause of the former.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:47 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 19:21 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 19:24 
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The main problem with housing is that you've got something that is simultaneously a necessity and an investment. Can you imagine if the value of vegetables went up over time to match the property price curve?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:04 
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I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:21 
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Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

Capitalism was created by humans, you can't look at it in a vacuum. I'm particularly talking about late-stage capitalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:24 
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Gogmagog

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Hearthly wrote:
I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


The curry place down the road does okra fries and they are amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:25 
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Bad Girl

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Everything was created by humans, you div. Any economic system will be human-made unless you’re Dr Dolittle’s counsin who talks to plants and form a plant based economy based on standing very still for long periods.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:27 
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Satsuma wrote:
Everything was created by humans, you div. Any economic system will be human-made unless you’re Dr Dolittle’s counsin who talks to plants and form a plant based economy based on standing very still for long periods.

Of course, but late-stage capitalism is probably one of the most egregious.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:32 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Capitalism was created by humans

Was it? Was mathematics created by humans, or discovered? Is capitalism a pure invention, or an emergent property of a complex system?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:34 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

Capitalism was created by humans, you can't look at it in a vacuum. I'm particularly talking about late-stage capitalism.


Every economic and social system is created by humans. My point is that you can't say 'capitalism has to do X', because it doesn't. Any more than feudalism has to lead to crusades.

Also "capitalism is bad" is meaningless without some idea of some alternative option.

Also you can't call it late stage capitalism because there might be eight more stages of it to come yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:35 
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I live in eternal hope there won't be. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:36 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
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Someone has raised 250% of their kickstarter target to make a clip for your car air vents to hold your McDonald’s ketchup packet in. This is not the time to be criticising capitalism, it is a time for rejoice.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:37 
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Lonewolves wrote:
I live in eternal hope there won't be. :)


Come up with anything better then.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:37 
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Cras wrote:
Also you can't call it late stage capitalism because there might be eight more stages of it to come yet.

Eh, it's just a name. We still call post-modernism post-modernism despite there being lots of things that came after it that are not post-modernism.

Myp: how do you define "late stage capitalism"?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:38 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Yeah, I was just poking sticks at that point

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:39 
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Cras wrote:
Yeah, I was just poking sticks at that point

Typical capitalist oppressor


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:42 
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Gogmagog

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I think futurism was before post modernism.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:46 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


The curry place down the road does okra fries and they are amazing.


I am now in curry place awaiting fries

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:55 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


The curry place down the road does okra fries and they are amazing.


I am now in curry place awaiting fries


Boom!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:16 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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Cras wrote:
Every economic and social system is created by humans.
Tell that to the harlequin ladybirds hibernating in our window frame.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:18 
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Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
I live in eternal hope there won't be. :)


Come up with anything better then.

You come up with better things for the myriad things you criticise. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:21 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

Capitalism was created by humans, you can't look at it in a vacuum. I'm particularly talking about late-stage capitalism.


Monkeys trade sex for food.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 21:25 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
Also you can't call it late stage capitalism because there might be eight more stages of it to come yet.

Eh, it's just a name. We still call post-modernism post-modernism despite there being lots of things that came after it that are not post-modernism.

Myp: how do you define "late stage capitalism"?

Capitalism as an end in itself, rather than the means to create something better. The mega-profits at-all-cost hypercapitalism that lines shareholders pockets at the cost of all other stakeholders, including workers and consumers.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 22:22 
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Gogmagog

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BUDGET 2017: Almost all Bradford properties will qualify for stamp duty exemption for first-time buyers

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:52 
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Stop the fucking presses, our shambolic opposition party had actually done something slightly effective:

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/933369394780147717


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:57 
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What's the Conservative party line on why they haven't balanced the budget as was promised, anyway? I can't think of any external factors that have significantly affected us, so what's their excuse for missing their target by ten years when they've had everything their own way?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:59 
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Paws for thought

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
What's the Conservative party line on why they haven't balanced the budget as was promised, anyway? I can't think of any external factors that have significantly affected us, so what's their excuse for missing their target by ten years when they've had everything their own way?

The EU. Clearly.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:00 
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Conservatives called a referendum and Conservatives lead the Vote Leave efforts and Conservatives are implementing Brexit. That's not an external factor, it's Conservative party policy.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:05 
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Paws for thought

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Conservatives called s referendum and Conservatives lead the Vote Leave efforts and Conservatives are implementing Brexit. That's not an external factor, it's Conservative party policy.

Not Brexit. The EU. Clearly the only reason we could be leaving to get away from them taking all our money. Not rank xenophobia at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:16 
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Gogmagog

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
What's the Conservative party line on why they haven't balanced the budget as was promised, anyway? I can't think of any external factors that have significantly affected us, so what's their excuse for missing their target by ten years when they've had everything their own way?


Reavers

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:25 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Conservatives called a referendum and Conservatives lead the Vote Leave efforts and Conservatives are implementing Brexit. That's not an external factor, it's Conservative party policy.


But just think of the damage Labour and Jeremy Corbyn would do!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:36 
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Kern wrote:
But just think of the damage Labour and Jeremy Corbyn would do!

I heard that if Corbyn was in charge we'd be see a deleterious run on the pound, devaluing our currency to record lows not seen for hundreds of years. Imagine that!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:42 
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And a brain-drain as our renowned financial sector flees to our competitors in Europe!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:51 
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It might get so bad that we'd no longer be one of the five largest economies in the world! That'd be awful, a real embarrassment.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:59 
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Unpossible!

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It might get so bad that we'd no longer be one of the five largest economies in the world! That'd be awful, a real embarrassment.

As a fan of a yo-yoing football team, I can assure you, constant promotion and relegation is awesome entertainment value


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 13:02 
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DavPaz wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It might get so bad that we'd no longer be one of the five largest economies in the world! That'd be awful, a real embarrassment.

As a fan of a yo-yoing football team, I can assure you, constant promotion and relegation is awesome entertainment value

Heh

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 15:03 
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DavPaz wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It might get so bad that we'd no longer be one of the five largest economies in the world! That'd be awful, a real embarrassment.

As a fan of a yo-yoing football team, I can assure you, constant promotion and relegation is awesome entertainment value


:DD Superb.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 15:40 
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EvilTrousers

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It might get so bad that we'd no longer be one of the five largest economies in the world! That'd be awful, a real embarrassment.


Piffle. We would just roll up our sleeves and get down to business for blighty. There's no problem that us British can't solve with our wit and stiff upper lip.

We survived The Blitz for the love of God. Johnny foreigner can't break the British Bulldog spirit with his annoying facts and boring detail.

DUNKRIK!

etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 16:00 
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The story is as it always was: it is the fault of Gordon Brown.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 16:05 
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Curiosity wrote:
The story is as it always was: it is the fault of Gordon Brown.


He should have taught his dog to sleep IN the kennel.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:06 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Too easy


All valid points I put on the last objection I had to houses.


4,000 empty homes in Bradford. Fill those before digging up countryside.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:43 
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Mr Speaker laid down the burns yesterday:

Quote:
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op):
When I was a little boy, my grandmother used to say, “Shame the devil and tell the truth.” When will this Secretary of State tell the truth? He has been, with his colleagues, going around the world begging for a trade deal and everyone is telling him, “We want to trade with the European Union, a much bigger trading group.”

Mr Speaker:
Order. Just to be absolutely clear, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not suggest that the Secretary of State would ever tell an untruth in this House.

Mr Sheerman:
Absolutely not, and I did not mean to imply that he would. I thought the House would like to know what my grandmother used to say to me about the importance of veracity.

Mr Speaker:
No further explanation is required. We are immensely interested in the hon. Gentleman’s grandmother, and his ruminations on that matter will doubtless be found in his memoirs, which will be deposited in the Library and we can consult in the long winter evenings that lie ahead.


Ouch.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:16 
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Like. A. Fucking. Game. To. Them.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:19 
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Maybe that's just how it comes off when you just hear the "highlights" but it's like listening to a bunch of public schoolboys doing the world's shittest comedy panel show.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:21 
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"Just to be absolutely clear, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not suggest that the Secretary of State would ever tell an untruth in this House."
"Are you fucking kidding me? He's a lying cunt!"

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:07 
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MaliA wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Too easy


All valid points I put on the last objection I had to houses.


4,000 empty homes in Bradford. Fill those before digging up countryside.

They should be requisitioned if they are just sitting there earning money for landlords not being used.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 22:13 
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Gogmagog

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Peak Grauniad

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