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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:05 
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No stamp duty for first time buyers on houses under £300k; no stamp duty on the first £300k on houses up to £500k.

Definition of "first time buyers", like Help To Buy and the Lifetime ISA, is "people who have never owned property." I bought a house in Wales in Jan 2006 which I had to sell at a loss to move to London; I have no equity, yet am excluded from all these schemes.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:10 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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And that's not going to help the actual problem, really, right? It'll inflate the cost of first-time-suitable houses.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:13 
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Squirt wrote:
And that's not going to help the actual problem, really, right? It'll inflate the cost of first-time-suitable houses.

Yes, it actually makes it worse for anyone in my position.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:14 
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Gogmagog

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
No stamp duty for first time buyers on houses under £300k; no stamp duty on the first £300k on houses up to £500k.

Definition of "first time buyers", like Help To Buy and the Lifetime ISA, is "people who have never owned property." I bought a house in Wales in Jan 2006 which I had to sell at a loss to move to London; I have no equity, yet am excluded from all these schemes.


That's balls. Sorry to hear that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:14 
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£3 billion for Brexit preparations. Can't we spend it on the NHS instead?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:17 
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Do both. Just borrow a load of money now and then pay it back using all the extra cash we're going to have after Brexit!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:41 
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Sleepyhead

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Those growth prediction cuts are savage. Real world pay cuts for all for at least another 4 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:41 
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Curiosity wrote:
Those growth prediction cuts are savage. Real world pay cuts for all for at least another 4 years.


'Project Fear'.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:43 
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Stop being perpetually deluded and stupid people. Cavey has said things are great. We must believe him.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:48 
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Curiosity wrote:
Those growth prediction cuts are savage. Real world pay cuts for all for at least another 4 years.


No rise on beer duty though! Hooray!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 15:58 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was going to post, but really, it’s just all too pathetic for words. I have better things to do with my time than vainly trying to educate the perpetually deluded and/or stupid. Sorry. :)


"You're all too stupid to understand me" is hardly an argument that can be levelled at this forum.

EXCEPT ZARDOZ OBVS.

As regards today's budget I am principally on the look out for further IR35 reforms being rolled out to the private sector effectively ending the industry I currently work in.

You may have missed it, but in the Red Book they've acknowledged for the first time that this is definitely going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:07 
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EvilTrousers

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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was going to post, but really, it’s just all too pathetic for words. I have better things to do with my time than vainly trying to educate the perpetually deluded and/or stupid. Sorry. :)


"You're all too stupid to understand me" is hardly an argument that can be levelled at this forum.

EXCEPT ZARDOZ OBVS.

As regards today's budget I am principally on the look out for further IR35 reforms being rolled out to the private sector effectively ending the industry I currently work in.

You may have missed it, but in the Red Book they've acknowledged for the first time that this is definitely going to happen.


It always was really - just a matter of when. I was fearing April 2018 in a bid to accelerate tax receipts, especially when I saw those growth figures, so this is a win for me really - gives me a chance to get out before the hammer falls.

Still - no VAT threshold reduction thank fuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:48 
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Squirt wrote:
And that's not going to help the actual problem, really, right? It'll inflate the cost of first-time-suitable houses.
OBR say exactly this

http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/box/ ... me-buyers/

Quote:
On this basis, post-SDLT prices paid by FTBs would actually be higher with the relief than without it. Thus the main gainers from the policy are people who already own property, not the FTBs themselves. For some potential FTBs with smaller deposits, who are constrained by loan-to-value lending criteria, the relief will enable them to borrow a multiple of their SDLT saving, allowing them to buy properties that they otherwise could not afford – but more expensively.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 16:50 
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Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:09 
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Hibernating Druid

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Trousers wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was going to post, but really, it’s just all too pathetic for words. I have better things to do with my time than vainly trying to educate the perpetually deluded and/or stupid. Sorry. :)


"You're all too stupid to understand me" is hardly an argument that can be levelled at this forum.

EXCEPT ZARDOZ OBVS.

As regards today's budget I am principally on the look out for further IR35 reforms being rolled out to the private sector effectively ending the industry I currently work in.

Hey! I understand perfectly well that it's not very good all this stuff like.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:34 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Short of engineering a crash there's not much else they can do, is there?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:35 
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Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Short of engineering a crash there's not much else they can do, is there?


Indeed. There needs to be a house price crash, but if one happens, it fucks over homeowners. I have absolutely no idea how you go about addressing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:37 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Build a fuck ton of housing?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:38 
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Gogmagog

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Invade France.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:39 
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Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:39 
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Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

If anything, that would just bring about a crash which would put a hell of a lot people in hock.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:40 
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Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:41 
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Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

But there are a fuck ton of new houses being built!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:42 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?


Not really. Interest rates rise to control inflation, and a housing crash wouldn't necessarily cause an inflation spike

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:43 
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Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?


Not really. Interest rates rise to control inflation, and a housing crash wouldn't necessarily cause an inflation spike

In that case, as a home owner I welcome a crash if it means other people can afford to buy.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:44 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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There's no way you can build houses quick enough to make a true crash though. Every bloody builder in the UK knocking out 2 bed semi's would hardly send it through the floor.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:46 
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Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:47 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?

No, but it would put a substantial number of people in negative equity.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:53 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:55 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Too easy

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:57 
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Gogmagog

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GazChap wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Wouldn't a crash put interest rates through the roof?

No, but it would put a substantial number of people in negative equity.


Yes. Need to build equity to fund Gork and Mork at Uni and then give them.the cash for a house deposit. Or, if they are too dumb for uni, send them to finishing school so, if they are pretty enough ( spent a lot of money on the aesthetic genes for both of them) at least they have a chance of marrying rich. Then they can use it to buy a house for a horse or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:57 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Build a fuck ton of housing?

Never in Mali's back yard


Round me would cause traffic issues to further worsen, rainwater run off would cause havoc and subside the remnants of the open cast coal pits. There would be huge pressure on already over subscribed schools and other infrastructure and why build on green belt when there are loads of brownfield sites in Bradford proper?

Too easy


All valid points I put on the last objection I had to houses.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 17:58 
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At least Mr Hammond backed housing and infrastructure developments in the vast empty flatlands between Oxford and the Fens.

I'm really looking forward to getting the last train home from Meatup in the 2030s.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:10 
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markg wrote:
Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?

People are quick to blame the latter but I do often wonder if that's not just "blame the rich people".

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:11 
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Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:13 
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That might be true in London. But I was thinking of the big increase in the numbers of fairly ordinary people who realised that it was an easy way to make money.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:14 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:17 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

Not All Rich People klaxon

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:21 
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It's amazing how much your perspective changes when you move from paying rent to paying a mortgage.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:35 
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Gogmagog

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Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Every new government housing scheme is the same: it prioritises preserving value for existing owners over lowering prices for new buyers. In favouring the first, the effect on the second is at best weak and at worst unnoticeable.

Short of engineering a crash there's not much else they can do, is there?


Sell houses as leasehold with option to buy freehold

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:37 
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Decapodian

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Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:37 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


All rich people?

Not All Rich People klaxon


Well, yeah. If it isn't "all" then we are into weighing souls territory.

I think buy to let has a lot to answer for

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:38 
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Sleepyhead

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Grim... wrote:
markg wrote:
Is it just supply and demand or the increase in buy to let that's fucking everything up?

People are quick to blame the latter but I do often wonder if that's not just "blame the rich people".


But the latter is a primary cause of the former.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 18:47 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 19:21 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 19:24 
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The main problem with housing is that you've got something that is simultaneously a necessity and an investment. Can you imagine if the value of vegetables went up over time to match the property price curve?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:04 
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I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:21 
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UltraMod

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Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Blaming rich people is utterly valid though.


For what, exactly?

For someone to get rich other people have to become poor, that's capitalism for you.


That's not even a tiny bit close to being true.
Capitalism allows people to become rich while systematically tilting the odds in their favour against those who are poor.

There's no 'have to' in capitalism. That's human nature doing that.

Capitalism was created by humans, you can't look at it in a vacuum. I'm particularly talking about late-stage capitalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:24 
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Hearthly wrote:
I'm convinced, and putting everything I own into okra.


The curry place down the road does okra fries and they are amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 20:25 
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Everything was created by humans, you div. Any economic system will be human-made unless you’re Dr Dolittle’s counsin who talks to plants and form a plant based economy based on standing very still for long periods.


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