Be Excellent To Each Other

If it had decent writing I'd be way more emotionally invested. Mass Effect had good writing (though occasionally a little too MUCH good writing) and I was genuinely hooked on seeing the game through because I liked the characters, as I did with Knights of the Old Republic - even though I could see a mile off what was coming the execution and the verve carried me along. Tropico 3 is another recent example of good writing. Its missions are pepped up from the usual city builder fare by sly historical allusions, bawdy comedy and a jaunty direct address to friend player that makes you believe you are for a few fleeting hours a tinpot dictator on a remote island.

Starcraft can't manage any of this. It's both confused and crass. I'm not expecting Iain M Banks or Brian Aldis level stuff here but I would at least like a Harry Harrison fix for my monies.

Mind you, if the missions increase in quality like that day/night one did, then I'll be quite chuffed in the end I guess. I just wish I didn't feel like I was being insulted in the middle bits.

Maybe I should go and buy Mass Effect 2.

You need to attack move - key 'A' and then left-click on the map. At the moment you are telling them (with a right-click) to "get to that position no matter what".

StarCraft is a hardcore RTS, and that has its own advantages and faults. Your units do exactly what you tell them, and once you get the hang of that it starts to flow a lot better.

PROHINT: Group your attack squad, and then group your support units (medics, Medivacs, science flyers, whatever) and click on the "move" command in the bottom-right menu and left-click on one of the members of the attack squad. Attack-move your main group into the fight and that way the support squad will tend to the attack squad like you'd want them to.

I figure I've got a free code for you to have if you want, but I'm not sure where to find it

Blizzard's story-tellingly is knowingly a bit cheesy, it's like WoW where there's loads of offbeat and incongruous stuff in there. (Check out the TV in the cantina in SC2)

It's very happy to be a GAME, and isn't pretending to be anything else. That said I think the overall story arc is pretty good, just don't imagine it's taking itself 100% seriously all the time

Pete is somewhat driving down the price I'm willing to pay for this.

He's looking at a game from a librarians perspective. No offence, Pete .

The story is cheesy, yes. But the gameplay is not.

I hope Tesco have this in tonight when I go shopping....

Not really. SC2 only has "move" and "attack-move". In 'attack-move' the units will stop when they see an enemy and sit there shooting them until either side dies. Pete wants a "move but also attack" order where they move to the destination, but happily fire at the enemy along the way.



You say 'hardcore', I say 'regressive'

The hover tanks with rail guns (first appearing on the level with the trains) can move and fire simultaneously.

...which appear to be campaign vehicles only (?)

I have it... will install now

I never said it wasn't relevant. I said it doesn't change anything. It's true that prices used to be higher, but that doesn't mean they're still unreasonably high.



Well, arguably the reason the booze is so expensive is because it has to be for it to be profitable after tax. And in any case, paying that much for beer is daft unless the place is unusually excellent.



Well, yes. But that's another reason it's a bad comparison to draw - if you want a drink now, you want a drink now. Your thirst isn't going to go away for two months while you wait for prices to drop as the pricey beer-drinkers run on to the shiny new... er, beer.



Hardly fair to suggest that objecting to the price is irrational. Waiting for a couple of months (if that) because you know the price will drop significantly is a pretty rational decision if you ask me. And arguably, it's the other way round if you want to talk rationality - those people should maybe reconsider how much money they splurged that night.

But meh, we're talking about what people are prepared to go "fuck it" at and throw money down for. It's up to them at the end of the day - I'm just inclined to think that adults should have more patience. If nothing else, buying things the minute they come out is why the industry has been able to fleece people for decades by rushing under-made games out.



Quite. People also pay £3 for a pint of Carling, or £80 for Ugg boots. I leave the rest for the jury to surmise.




I can believe this. The first game was gloriously silly. Think of it as almost a B-movie type thing, a bit like Tremors, where it knows its silly but never openly admits it. The Protoss in particular were so wonderfully imperious and over the top that there's no way anyone whose name wasn't Michael Bay could write them seriously. And yet because of that, you kind of do take a shine to them. Fenix in particular was amazing. He had no time for anything but direct action and plans, and would sit there quietly saying nothing while everyone else plotted and flapped their lips/frontal lobes about. Then he'd basically jump in and go "Right, we'll attack here and here, then there. Kill them, destroy, crush, death to all, glory to everyone else, farewell!"

Then they bumped him off. Bastards.

Tremors had likeable characters you wanted to spend time with, and wit.

Pete make Zardoz cry

Point. But I mean more in ... I don't know, approach, attitude. It's that kind of level of plot seriousness. But yeah, the characters in the first were simple, and confined mostly to simple briefing screens (almost all the cut scenes were about nameless randoms, really. Barring the very end of Brood War, I don't think any named characters even spoke in them, and most never even appeared).

The buzz around the new one makes it sound like they're pushing the characters and plot scenes quite hard, so I can imagine it would have a different feel. But meh, I haven't played it yet, so.

Only certain units can fire on the move, like what Zardoz said.

Turns out my monitor (which is wired to be PC over VGA) was slightly out of calibration at 1680x1050, so the top twenty or so pixels were cut off, hiding those menus. Ta Zardoz!

I think hitting 'M' will bring it up too.

I wouldn't mind spending some time with Dr. Hanson.

Even the respectable Guardian thinks so! Pete is a probably a Guardianista what with him being a boffin-librarian type.

OK this isn't actually Starcraft, but it is Blizzard, and I believe it applies equally to the story telling in the Starcraft universe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... characters

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you're going to do fantasy, you may as well embrace the histrionics that come with the genre, hence the introduction of the character of Prince Arthas in the third of their Warcraft strategy games in 2002. Initially the valiant model of a medieval knight, everything changes when Arthas picks up a cursed sword and begins to perpetrate a steadily more sinister series of atrocities (think dead peasants), culminating in killing his own father. The character really came into his own in the mighty World of Warcraft, over which his twisted spirit presided for five years. Top-class schlock.

You try and prove your point that Starcraft has well written characters by

a) Citing a Guardian game article
b) Showing us an example of WCIII


?!

I'm probably being a little too harsh on this. It is a fun game and worth playing. But the script is awful, I shall not back down on this.

They missed John Marston from the list. He is clearly the best character ever because he tips his hat to people and is polite.

I'm afraid to say that current Minecraft activities have slowed my progress in this a lot. I may get some Starcraft action in tomorrow. Maybe.

The WC3/WoW link is, obviously, Blizzard. Their story telling/characterisation is pretty consistent across all their games over the years, which is where it slots into how one has to approach the characters and script of SC2.

Read The Story of Morgan Ladimore for example (http://www.wowhead.com/item=2154), not exactly going to give Shakespeare any sleepless nights, but in the context of the zone where it takes place, and the quest chain it's a part of, it sets the scene for Mor'Ladim being one scary motherfucker when you finally come across him, and actually makes the end of the quest chain quite poignant - http://www.wowhead.com/quest=231

I realise I'm straying away from SC2 even more here, but the point is, there's an intangible 'something' about Blizzard's games where they're well-written and interesting enough to work in terms of the stories and characters overall, but still 'gamey' enough to be fun and not get lost in hopeless self-indulgence and taking themselves too seriously.

In GTA4 for example, the story arc seemed completely detached from the actual game by the time it finished (well, long before then, in fact), with what was happening in the game world having precious little to do with what the cutscenes appeared to be spelling out.

This is where Blizzard are consistently excellent at balancing the GAME with the story and the characters.

I trust Tom Chick implicitly when it comes to RTS reviews. He says the characters stink so I'm going to believe him. He says the storyline is shit and only a 12 year old boy would enjoy it. I'm going to believe him. I'd rather believe him than a known Blizzard fan boi who continually trolls the forums with an air of PC elitism.

Ouch, careful all. Getting mildly heated. Like some warm milk.

AE, why aren't you playing Minecraft? Play Minecraft.

Actually I kind of wish you hadn't mentioned Arthas. He was one of the most hateful things about Warcraft 3, I thought. He was boring and annoying, and just when I thought I'd finally be rid of the tedious cock, he went evil and I realised I'd have to drag him along for another bloody campaign.

But hm. I'll wait and see about Starcraft, obv. I'm inclined to think that leaning more on the plot and characters than the first game may not be to its benefit, as working the story around the game was much more effective. But 'tis only an inclination.


Also, you leave librarians alone, you swine. I might be managing one this time next year, and I'll tell them all about you.

Judging the game of Star Craft 2 on it's story is like slagging off a fantastic film for its crap DVD menu. Or belittling a KitKat for it's wrapper.

We're all crafting mines now.

I'm writing a game called Craftcraft. It's where you do all kinds of different hobbies. Then I plan Crafty Craftcraft where you have to do it without drawing attention to yourself.

I'll bring the flask of weak lemon drink.

I fucking know.

nerds

The story is daft, but the fight scene is aces.

I'm not going to work today, so I plan to finish this.

I have a better plan for you, install Minecraft and watch it eat your day.

My laptop does nto seem to want to run this... oh bugger..

Will investigate later

I bet your laptop will run Minecraft though.

Could do, but I don't want to play minecraftt..

I wat to play sc2.. it gets to the input battlenet name, then just shuts down...

Hmm, does your laptop meet the minimum spec then, Kov?

I presume so...

2 GB Memory
Intel Core2 T9600 2.8Ghz
32 bit vista

Hmm yeah, what about your graphics card? Firmware up to date too?

I downloaded the latest card drivers... I will do a check today if I get chance

Campaign done.

By God, that was a fucking excellent game.

To the challenges!

Bloody hell that was quick! Only doing about 2-3 missions a night, and have missed a few days completely.

That's about that I've done. There are only 26.

Right.

So that's why everyone is playing Mine Kampf now.

Get Minecraft.

Seige tanks are still my fave unit. Especially with upgraded shells

LOVE the Merc units too, saved my sorry ass a few times calling different teams in.

Get out of my dreams, get into my car.

I never really used the Mercs. I was far happier just building shitloads of stuff.

Have you done the challenges? It really is paper-scissors-rock of the most complicated kind