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I'm being hauled before the courts
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=924		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mr Russell [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 19:47 ]
Post subject:  I'm being hauled before the courts
Hello, quite a long story coming up, so please stick with it:

Back in January I was pulled over for speeding in a 30mph zone. I was given a ticket, and told to produce my documents at a police station within 7 days. At this point in time, I did not have the counterpart to my driving license, as I had lost it. I told the policeman this and he said that if I went to the police station and explained this, they would fill out a form and send me a letter instead explaining what to do.

At this point, I applied for a replacement to the counterpart of my license from the DVLA. It did not turn up within 7 days, so I went to the police station to tell them this. The lady on the counter filled out the form as mentioned above, and took my ticket off me. I asked if I still needed the bit on the bottom with the address to send my fine to, but she said they had to take the whole thing as there was no way to enter me onto the fines system.

Fast forward a few weeks and I haven't received a letter, but I do now have my full replacement license. I went to the police station again to ask if I should be worried that I hadn't heard anything, as I didn't want them to double the fine when I had been more than willing to settle up quickly. She said that they must just have a backlog and I should continue to wait.

Of course I forgot all about it until today when a letter summoning me to court in July turns up. I now have to fill out a form saying if I'm going to attend, and whether I'm going to plead guilty or not. If I plead guilty, they automatically charge me £43 court costs as well as whatever penalties they want to imply for the original offence.

I can have them decide the case in my absence, but is it worth going to court to fight it? Should I contact them explaining that it should never have gone to court in the first place and I am perfectly willing to pay the original fine but they wouldn't let me? Should I plead guilty, pay the court costs, and the penalties, but also fill out this story on the Statement of Mitigation form?

Please help!
Author:  Grim... [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
I don't know if this helps, but I once missed a court summons (because they had the wrong address for me) over speeding and the total fine was £180. I phoned them up and explained that I would have gone, had I known about it, and they sent me a form to fill in pleading my case, and in the end I only had to pay the original fine. All the paperwork is at my office, but I'll tell you the name of the department I rang up to talk to someone about it (you'll have to right the same one in your own county (or the county of wherever the court is)) - they were very helpful.
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 19:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
On the one hand you probably have good cause to complain about the system, and a slick lawyer (Mr Loophole) could probably even get you off the charge.

On the other hand, it's £43.

My advice is to just pay it, by all means have a statement explaining all the steps you took to be in compliance, and sleep easily at night.
Author:  Malabelm [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 19:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
http://www.pepipoo.com/ is usually a good place to stop by if you're after help with motoring laws.
Author:  Grim... [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 20:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
It's £43 court costs, plus the original fine (£60, I guess).
Author:  Mr Russell [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 20:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
AceAceBaby wrote:
On the one hand you probably have good cause to complain about the system, and a slick lawyer (Mr Loophole) could probably even get you off the charge.

On the other hand, it's £43.

My advice is to just pay it, by all means have a statement explaining all the steps you took to be in compliance, and sleep easily at night.


£43. Plus the original £60 fine. Plus another £60 because they'll no doubt have doubled it for slow payment or something. £60 I could have handled, but £163, possibly more?
Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 20:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
AceAceBaby wrote:
On the one hand you probably have good cause to complain about the system, and a slick lawyer (Mr Loophole) could probably even get you off the charge.

On the other hand, it's £43.

My advice is to just pay it, by all means have a statement explaining all the steps you took to be in compliance, and sleep easily at night.

Screw what he said, on the basis of your story you should be able to pay the original fine purely by your own effort. It's easily done and I think you have every chance in the world.
Author:  Mr Russell [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 20:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Thanks for the link nynfortoo. I have posted my query over there as well to see if I can get any advice.
Author:  GovernmentYard [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 20:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Always turn up if you can, always phone the courts and ask about your situation, drop in to the CAB... and consult a solicitor if possible as well. Make a note of which people said what when, go down the station and ask for the numbers of the coppers you have dealt with if you can remember nough to identify them... they know who was on shift when if you have dates and can identify plod from records. You've got an evidence trail which says you've addressed it in a timely manner and are not disputing the fine, if you can do this, and acting in good faith throughout a process in law as a citizen with typical lack of experience in such things, courts are unlikely to find against you if you can prove your reasonable behaviour towards this matter.

Open, honest, responsble are your key things to be, sounds like you are on the right track, so long as you go to whatever lengths are necessary to prove your case and resolve th problem. Good luck, you deserve it.
Author:  GazChap [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
You should be fine based on what you've said here, the police will presumably have records of the times you went to the station to explain your situation. Just make sure that you don't, at any point during the court session, shout out "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!".

(I've just watched A Few Good Men)
Author:  MaliA [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Is it really worth all that for 103 quid? It'll take you a few days to get it all sorted out. Pay up and don;t worry any more about it.

EDIT: And don't speed in a 30 zone, it kills kids and stuff.

EDIT 2: Also add: driving a motorbike up between 2 lines of traffic is punishable by death, as is making good prgress as and when the laws can be bent a bit as long as I don't get caught doing it so that's OK.

Also: best of luck, pay up, move on, it's only 100 odd quid.
Author:  Dudley [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Send me £100 then, it's only £100.
Author:  MaliA [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Dudley wrote:
Send me £100 then, it's only £100.


Heh, I'm not the one up in front of the beak soonest. It's seriously not worth spending 200 quid an hour at least on a lawyer to get you off a sub 200 quid fine.

BTW:
Author:  kalmar [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Yeah they'll probably google this now, find a minor discrepancy in your story and detain you for 43 days without trial, and beat you with rubber hoses.

OTOH I'm hopeful you'll get away with just the original fine and no court appearance if you manage to kick up a bit of a (polite) fuss immediately with the right parties. I'm sure this kind of thing happens often enough that there's a pain free escape route.
Author:  MaliA [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
kalmar wrote:
Yeah they'll probably google this now, find a minor discrepancy in your story and detain you for 43 days without trial, and beat you with rubber hoses.

OTOH I'm hopeful you'll get away with just the original fine and no court appearance if you manage to kick up a bit of a (polite) fuss immediately with the right parties. I'm sure this kind of thing happens often enough that there's a pain free escape route.


I do believe that is known as "paying".

Also missing is shitstorm about speeding in a 30 zone, TYVM.
Author:  Dudley [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
In the absence of other info I'm choosing to believe it happened in one of the many, many times it's perfectly safe to do so. The exit of Hammersmith flyover is a 30 limit for instance, this being a 2 lane dual carriageway bordered by walls.
Author:  Mr Russell [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
I'm not disputing the fact that I was speeding. I was stupid to do so, but please don't comment on those circumstances, as I have not offered them up.

All I want is to know where I stand regarding the fact that I was never given an opportunity to pay the original fine.
Author:  kalmar [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 22:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
MaliA wrote:
kalmar wrote:
Yeah they'll probably google this now, find a minor discrepancy in your story and detain you for 43 days without trial, and beat you with rubber hoses.

OTOH I'm hopeful you'll get away with just the original fine and no court appearance if you manage to kick up a bit of a (polite) fuss immediately with the right parties. I'm sure this kind of thing happens often enough that there's a pain free escape route.


I do believe that is known as "paying".

Yeah, he wants to pay it, just not appear in court and pay an additional fine for late payment when it's not his fault, isn't it?

Quote:
Also missing is shitstorm about speeding in a 30 zone, TYVM.

NP
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Grim... wrote:
It's £43 court costs, plus the original fine (£60, I guess).


Well I was going on the basis that Mr Russ broke the law and has to pay £60 whichever way. The £43 is the only extra.
Author:  Dudley [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Yes but it's an extra he apparently has to pay despite doing absolutely everything right. He's being punished for a crime he did in fact not commit.
Author:  Grim... [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Is he going to escape from a maximum security stockade?
Author:  JamesOff [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Dudley wrote:
Yes but it's an extra he apparently has to pay despite doing absolutely everything right. He's being punished for a crime he did in fact not commit.


It's probably just a service charge they added on to the bill for him. He can cross it out and put in his own value based on the service he received.
Author:  Dudley [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
I wish I worked somewhere where you can get 73% tips :D
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Fri Jun 06, 2008 14:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: I'm being hauled before the courts
Dudley wrote:
Yes but it's an extra he apparently has to pay despite doing absolutely everything right. He's being punished for a crime he did in fact not commit.


Easy for us to say, but I'm not going to advise anyone to take on the courts and potentially be hit with even harsher penalties for the sake of £43.
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