Cavey wrote:
GazChap wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
At least I don't have to keep checking it with a dipstick as the computer just bongs at me with a nice message when it wants oil.
Until the sensor fails...
I just don't get why anyone would rely on the oil warning idiot light before topping up (which is possibly past the point of increased wear being incurred as a result of low oil pressure), especially if the engine drinks oil, as this one seems to. How hard is it to pop the bonnet and check the dipper every fill up/whilst topping up screenwash etc., it's a high performance engine after all, and the cost of a new 'un is horrendously high.
Mechanical sympathy, much? Crickey, if I did that on most bikes I've ever owned, they'd have been toast.
It might not even have a dipstick. My BMW doesn't as far as I can see. Modern engines probably reply on a whole host of sensors to prevent them damaging themselves anyway.
TheVision wrote:
Cavey wrote:
How hard is it to pop the bonnet and check the dipper every fill up/whilst topping up screenwash etc.
It's actually quite hard with my wife's car as the dipstick gets stuck and needs a load of WD40 to shift it.... but yeah, I agree.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carlube-Xcg500 ... 595&sr=8-5
Put that shit on everything you do up in some way. I swear my Tomcat is 90% Coppercoat.
markg wrote:
Cavey wrote:
GazChap wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
At least I don't have to keep checking it with a dipstick as the computer just bongs at me with a nice message when it wants oil.
Until the sensor fails...
I just don't get why anyone would rely on the oil warning idiot light before topping up (which is possibly past the point of increased wear being incurred as a result of low oil pressure), especially if the engine drinks oil, as this one seems to. How hard is it to pop the bonnet and check the dipper every fill up/whilst topping up screenwash etc., it's a high performance engine after all, and the cost of a new 'un is horrendously high.
Mechanical sympathy, much? Crickey, if I did that on most bikes I've ever owned, they'd have been toast.
It might not even have a dipstick. My BMW doesn't as far as I can see. Modern engines probably reply on a whole host of sensors to prevent them damaging themselves anyway.
The Porsche has an oil pressure gauge, which I (anally) have displayed at all times and watch like a hawk - this is very different from just a simple pressure switch/idiot light (it has them *as well*).
TheVision wrote:
Cavey wrote:
How hard is it to pop the bonnet and check the dipper every fill up/whilst topping up screenwash etc.
It's actually quite hard with my wife's car as the dipstick gets stuck and needs a load of WD40 to shift it.... but yeah, I agree.
I must check mine this evening.
Hnnnngh, must resist…
Lonewolves wrote:
Halfway through topping up the oil in my Golf GTI it started hammering it down so I rushed back inside. Unbeknownst to myself I hadn't replaced the filler cap. 20 miles later a clanking sound became apparent - yes, the engine was eating itself. I looked inside and there was oil all over the underside of the bonnet.
Something like this happened to my dad once. The good news was, he discovered the issue before it wrecked the engine. The bad news was, he discovered it because the fountain of oil worked its way out of the engine bay and coated over the font brake discs, so when he brushed them to slow down in motorway traffic nothing happened... He ended up doing an emergency stop with the rear brakes only and spun the car in the process. (Everyone was fine.)
Crikey
Cavey wrote:
I just don't get why anyone would rely on the oil warning idiot light before topping up (which is possibly past the point of increased wear being incurred as a result of low oil pressure), especially if the engine drinks oil, as this one seems to.
Heathy has every confidence in Germanic automotive sensors.
Ouch, that's nasty. Easily done, too.
Years ago, some numpty from Kwik Fit left the oil filler off Mrs C's old Fiesta (HCS "Kent"-derived 1.3) engine, so consequently it coughed and splattered oil all over the engine exhaust manifold for a week, making her feel as sick as a dog.
Years ago, some numpty from Kwik Fit left the oil filler off Mrs C's old Fiesta (HCS "Kent"-derived 1.3) engine, so consequently it coughed and splattered oil all over the engine exhaust manifold for a week, making her feel as sick as a dog.
Zardoz wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I just don't get why anyone would rely on the oil warning idiot light before topping up (which is possibly past the point of increased wear being incurred as a result of low oil pressure), especially if the engine drinks oil, as this one seems to.
Heathy has every confidence in Germanic automotive sensors.
"Hello, is that Audi UK?"
"Yes, how can we help?"
"I have an out of warranty claim for a complete seized and written off engine. I'd like £10,000 please."
"I'm sorry to hear that sir, how did this happen?"
"The engine oil was low, but I didn't appreciate the oil pressure sensor was haunted."
"Er, I'm sorry, what was that again?"
"The oil pressure sensor was haunted. An internet forum cohort told me this is the correct technical term."
/click
"Hello?"
Cavey wrote:
markg wrote:
Cavey wrote:
GazChap wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
At least I don't have to keep checking it with a dipstick as the computer just bongs at me with a nice message when it wants oil.
Until the sensor fails...
I just don't get why anyone would rely on the oil warning idiot light before topping up (which is possibly past the point of increased wear being incurred as a result of low oil pressure), especially if the engine drinks oil, as this one seems to. How hard is it to pop the bonnet and check the dipper every fill up/whilst topping up screenwash etc., it's a high performance engine after all, and the cost of a new 'un is horrendously high.
Mechanical sympathy, much? Crickey, if I did that on most bikes I've ever owned, they'd have been toast.
It might not even have a dipstick. My BMW doesn't as far as I can see. Modern engines probably reply on a whole host of sensors to prevent them damaging themselves anyway.
The Porsche has an oil pressure gauge, which I (anally) have displayed at all times and watch like a hawk - this is very different from just a simple pressure switch/idiot light (it has them *as well*).
Genuine question but is the gauge there just as an option for the benefit of people who like such things? Surely the car will take care of itself and tell you if the oil situation needed attention in good time.
I think the rationale is that the more highly stressed the engine, the more likely the need to monitor engine oil pressure. (I agree with this personally; the thing regularly gets ranted to 8,000 RPM and I ask a lot of it - and I don't fancy the £30,000 bill to replace the engine. Although an S4 or whatever it is is less highly strung, it's still a performance engine that's very expensive to replace)
Well yes but that's the sort of thing that computers are much better at than humans. Surely rather than having you look at a gauge it could just say "woah there pal" if something was edging towards a red zone?
As long as the sensor worked.
8000 revs is pretty good I guess. I mean it's not 9000, but y'know. Pretty sweet.
Grim... wrote:
As long as the sensor worked.
If the oil pressure sensor doesn't work, the dashboard gauge is gone too.
markg wrote:
Well yes but that's the sort of thing that computers are much better at than humans. Surely rather than having you look at a gauge it could just say "woah there pal" if something was edging towards a red zone?
I suppose I'm drawing a distinction between a simple low oil pressure light and constantly monitoring oil pressure/trends and topping up all the time, by an extremely anal petrolhead. But I do see your side of the argument.
If there was a sudden, catastrophic loss of oil pressure, the computers/lights would kick in anyway. But what I'm talking about is running the engine *chronically* (not acutely) low on oil for possibly long periods, before the actual light flicks on.
Hey, it's his car/money though, each to his own.
My engine management light has been on for 10 months.
Lonewolves wrote:
8000 revs is pretty good I guess. I mean it's not 9000, but y'know. Pretty sweet.
Sounds like a banshee; the hollow, naturally aspirated flat-six wail is like no other (and now, sadly, largely a matter for history).
The downside, though, is relative lack of performance - "only" 325 bhp for a 3.4 litre six (my son in law's chipped 2-litre turbo AMG Merc pumps out 400 bhp plus, with little over half the engine size), and a lot less torque. For me, though, character, noise, upper rev range and throttle response count for a lot, but I am stupidly old school.
The GT3 revs to over 9000RPM!
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
As long as the sensor worked.
If the oil pressure sensor doesn't work, the dashboard gauge is gone too.
Depends how it fails - I might be gummed open.
Moral: Check the dipstick.
Cavey wrote:
If there was a sudden, catastrophic loss of oil pressure, the computers/lights would kick in anyway. But what I'm talking about is running the engine *chronically* (not acutely) low on oil for possibly long periods, before the actual light flicks on.
Why wouldn't the light be calibrated to flick on at an oil pressure level that's lower than normal but still high enough to not yet be causing damage?
Also, you're assuming the low pressure light is a binary thing where pressure below some value = light on. I don't think that's a safe assumption, particularly on a £70k Porsche -- let alone a £95k one. I suspect it's the ECU that decides when to flash that light, based on data coming from the same oil pressure gauge you're monitoring by eye. That could be using all sorts of data about the engine's condition and your driving habits to set the state of the warning light. Christ, given the software complexity of modern cars, I could believe there's a machine learning algorithm in there.
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
As long as the sensor worked.
If the oil pressure sensor doesn't work, the dashboard gauge is gone too.
Depends how it fails - I might be gummed open.
Moral: Check the dipstick.
In this case though, the dipstick is behind the wheel.
Quote:
I just don't get why anyone would rely on the oil warning idiot light before topping up (which is possibly past the point of increased wear being incurred as a result of low oil pressure), especially if the engine drinks oil, as this one seems to. How hard is it to pop the bonnet and check the dipper every fill up/whilst topping up screenwash etc., it's a high performance engine after all, and the cost of a new 'un is horrendously high.
Mechanical sympathy, much? Crickey, if I did that on most bikes I've ever owned, they'd have been toast.
Mechanical sympathy, much? Crickey, if I did that on most bikes I've ever owned, they'd have been toast.
It doesn't have a dipstick, the car is not supplied with one, and Audi don't make them, Audi's official position is it's not required.
It's not a 'low oil warning' light, (or an 'idiot' light as you so kindly refer to it), it's an advisory that the oil level is one litre below maximum capacity, and that the driver should add one litre of oil (but no more) at the next opportunity. (The message on the screen explicitly states that it is safe to continue driving normally.)
It is possible to buy third-party dipsticks (Audi don't make one that you can buy), and some people go down that route, but by all accounts the sensor as fitted is (a) reliable and (b) flags itself up as defective on the very rare occasions when it fails.
Also, you can read the oil level at any time using the MMI system in the car, and it'll show you a graphic of a bar on a scale of 0-100% (where 0% is one litre below max, and 100% is max). In old parlance, it shows the equivalent of MIN and MAX on a traditional dipstick.
The oil capacity of the engine is 6.2 litres, so I'm currently running with 5.2 litres, hardly into mechanical damage territory.
That could be true, Doc. When I think oil warning light, I think of a simple pressure switch (crude binary transducer) - but that's probably 1970s tech (lol), and I'm likely stupidly out of date?
Notwithstanding, though, I would *still* recommend regularly checking engine oil level yourself, by whatever means provided (manual dipstick or specific oil pressure test through the car's menus), especially on higher performance cars. But, this is simply my opinion.
Notwithstanding, though, I would *still* recommend regularly checking engine oil level yourself, by whatever means provided (manual dipstick or specific oil pressure test through the car's menus), especially on higher performance cars. But, this is simply my opinion.
@Hearthly
"Idiot light" is a well-known, oft-used term, don't take it personally as no offence was intended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_light
As for the rest of the stuff - fine, fine, fill yer boots mate. Just don't say I didn't warn you.
"Idiot light" is a well-known, oft-used term, don't take it personally as no offence was intended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_light
As for the rest of the stuff - fine, fine, fill yer boots mate. Just don't say I didn't warn you.
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
As long as the sensor worked.
If the oil pressure sensor doesn't work, the dashboard gauge is gone too.
Depends how it fails - I might be gummed open.
Moral: Check the dipstick.
Surely modern cars rely on loads of sensors, though. Aren't oil pressure gauges and dipsticks a bit of a throwback to make people who are used to such things feel better?
Suppose you wanted to do away with them then wouldn't you just make it so that an unchanging value is also an error?
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cavey wrote:
If there was a sudden, catastrophic loss of oil pressure, the computers/lights would kick in anyway. But what I'm talking about is running the engine *chronically* (not acutely) low on oil for possibly long periods, before the actual light flicks on.
Why wouldn't the light be calibrated to flick on at an oil pressure level that's lower than normal but still high enough to not yet be causing damage?
They are, but they're often not reliable.
In the case of the Mazda, it thought it was fine, but it wasn't. Mazda knew this could be the case, so still state you should check the oil level every week.
It's been that way for some time, hence the saying that "It's not a 'warning' light, it's a £5,000 'idiot' light".
Basically; if the light's on, it might already be too late.
[edit]I totally agree that it shouldn't be this way, and maybe modern cars are better. Maybe not, though.
@cavey
o/
o/
Lonewolves wrote:
8000 revs is pretty good I guess. I mean it's not 9000, but y'know. Pretty sweet.
Grim... wrote:
@cavey
o/
o/
\o
Just passed the 110k mark in my modern classic Mk1 Leon.
MaliA wrote:
I am 95℅ sure I once read an article in a motorbike magazine about oil. They took three 1000cc sportsbikes, drained the sump, filled the petrol tanks and ran them at full throttle or 10k+rpm in a garage until the fuel ran out. They then took the engines apart and there was some wear but not catastrophic levels of damage. But, it could have all been a weird dream.
I knew i wasn't dreaming.
That's incredible - Jap engines are just unreal.
If you tried that kind of caper on the Harley - despite making a fraction of the specific power output and redlining at a mere 5500RPM, it would probably implode on you, not least 'cause it's air cooled (as much as I dearly love Hogs)
If you tried that kind of caper on the Harley - despite making a fraction of the specific power output and redlining at a mere 5500RPM, it would probably implode on you, not least 'cause it's air cooled (as much as I dearly love Hogs)
I think the redline would be c13k rpm
MaliA wrote:
I think the redline would be c13k rpm
On a Kwak ZX-6R?
Yeah probably, certainly there or thereabouts.
Note they had a litre of oil in though, they weren't empty. I suspect they wouldn't last as long if they were
Also coolant doesn't boil at 100 (or 120)degC, unless you're actually using water as coolant.
I'd imagine most of the damage was done running it hot.
Still, good little engine.
[edit]Oh, they only ran it for two minutes with not much oil
Also coolant doesn't boil at 100 (or 120)degC, unless you're actually using water as coolant.
I'd imagine most of the damage was done running it hot.
Still, good little engine.
[edit]Oh, they only ran it for two minutes with not much oil
Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I think the redline would be c13k rpm
On a Kwak ZX-6R?
Yeah probably, certainly there or thereabouts.
14k
Talk to me on the motorbike thread!
Cavey wrote:
As for the rest of the stuff - fine, fine, fill yer boots mate. Just don't say I didn't warn you.
Well at the end of the day I'm looking after the oil/oil level as per Audi's recommendation and what it says to do in the handbook. Assuming its consumption of oil is consistent you could make a case for adding 500ml every 750 miles rather than 1 litre every 1500 miles, but considering I do the best part of 1000 miles per month that sounds like far too much of a faff.
I'm comfortable knowing that the car will slowly move from 6.2 litres of oil to 5.2 litres of oil over the space of 1500 miles, at which point I'll top it up again.
MaliA wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I am 95℅ sure I once read an article in a motorbike magazine about oil. They took three 1000cc sportsbikes, drained the sump, filled the petrol tanks and ran them at full throttle or 10k+rpm in a garage until the fuel ran out. They then took the engines apart and there was some wear but not catastrophic levels of damage. But, it could have all been a weird dream.
I knew i wasn't dreaming.
Ha - I remember that from a mag my older brother read. Fast Bikes? Something like that.
Hearthly wrote:
I'm comfortable knowing that the car will slowly move from 6.2 litres of oil to 5.2 litres of oil over the space of 1500 miles, at which point I'll top it up again.
Really? That's a lot of oil.
Squirt wrote:
Ha - I remember that from a mag my older brother read. Fast Bikes? Something like that.
What was is about?
Zardoz wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Ha - I remember that from a mag my older brother read. Fast Bikes? Something like that.
What was is about?
Yer mam, among others.
Cras wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Ha - I remember that from a mag my older brother read. Fast Bikes? Something like that.
What was is about?
Yer mam, among others.
Very good.
So you can post some things straight away then?
A friend (of a friend really) had an RS4 and when the low oil warning came on it would restrict the power - I could see the message on the dash. It also set the sat nav with directions to an audi dealership, it seemed like it did that every time the car started, he said it was pretty annoying.
Also on oil (and coolant) I ran the big Falcon for ages without water, and possibly oil too, but I really wan't driving it far each day. The focus was running a bit funny so I checked the oil and it didn't seem like there was much (if any) in there and the residue on the dipstick was quite thick, not smooth and 'oily'. I'm not really too bothered though as I'll probably just run the focus until it shits itself and then scrap it. The engine management light sometimes comes on for a couple of days, then goes away for a couple.
Also on oil (and coolant) I ran the big Falcon for ages without water, and possibly oil too, but I really wan't driving it far each day. The focus was running a bit funny so I checked the oil and it didn't seem like there was much (if any) in there and the residue on the dipstick was quite thick, not smooth and 'oily'. I'm not really too bothered though as I'll probably just run the focus until it shits itself and then scrap it. The engine management light sometimes comes on for a couple of days, then goes away for a couple.
Don't confuse oil pressure and oil level. Level doesn't really matter nowadays unless it's super low and you're putting Gs into the car through cornering or whatever. The second you get low pressure you get damage, having said that my old scimitar used to drink oil and every couple months under hard acceleration the oil light would flicker and that was my signal to give it a drink. Never had to change the oil as it was basically renewed every 6 months anyway, just swap the filter occasionally. What I liked about the oil light on that car is it was like a headlamp when it came on, attention grabbing as fuck.
Personal choice for any cars I put together is mechanical oil pressure gauge on capillary pipe, electric oil temp gauge and a bright oil pressure light on a pressure switch with a buzzer. The buzzer is oc when the engines off by way of a voltage sensitive relay. And a nice ping noise when you open the door with the side lights on.
Personal choice for any cars I put together is mechanical oil pressure gauge on capillary pipe, electric oil temp gauge and a bright oil pressure light on a pressure switch with a buzzer. The buzzer is oc when the engines off by way of a voltage sensitive relay. And a nice ping noise when you open the door with the side lights on.
Sir Taxalot wrote:
A friend (of a friend really) had an RS4 and when the low oil warning came on it would restrict the power - I could see the message on the dash. It also set the sat nav with directions to an audi dealership, it seemed like it did that every time the car started, he said it was pretty annoying.
Also on oil (and coolant) I ran the big Falcon for ages without water, and possibly oil too, but I really wan't driving it far each day. The focus was running a bit funny so I checked the oil and it didn't seem like there was much (if any) in there and the residue on the dipstick was quite thick, not smooth and 'oily'. I'm not really too bothered though as I'll probably just run the focus until it shits itself and then scrap it. The engine management light sometimes comes on for a couple of days, then goes away for a couple.
Also on oil (and coolant) I ran the big Falcon for ages without water, and possibly oil too, but I really wan't driving it far each day. The focus was running a bit funny so I checked the oil and it didn't seem like there was much (if any) in there and the residue on the dipstick was quite thick, not smooth and 'oily'. I'm not really too bothered though as I'll probably just run the focus until it shits itself and then scrap it. The engine management light sometimes comes on for a couple of days, then goes away for a couple.
I got a bug eye Corolla for free a while back and limped it through an MOT, hadn't run for a year but I've never checked the oil or coolant or spent a penny more than I had to for MOT, it refuses to die. In fact, maybe this would make a good next car for Mali...
krazywookie wrote:
Don't confuse oil pressure and oil level. Level doesn't really matter nowadays unless it's super low and you're putting Gs into the car through cornering or whatever.
So in summary my car's handbook, the S4 owner community, and indeed Audi's official advice as to how to monitor and maintain the oil level all turn out to be correct, and gradually running down to 5.2 litres of oil from 6.2 litres won't actually cause it to shit its own engine out the exhausts?
Good to know
Hearthly wrote:
krazywookie wrote:
Don't confuse oil pressure and oil level. Level doesn't really matter nowadays unless it's super low and you're putting Gs into the car through cornering or whatever.
So in summary my car's handbook, the S4 owner community, and indeed Audi's official advice as to how to monitor and maintain the oil level all turn out to be correct, and gradually running down to 5.2 litres of oil from 6.2 litres won't actually cause it to shit its own engine out the exhausts?
Good to know
Glad you asked?
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