I'm thinking of starting one. Want to help?
So I've been thinking and one of the things that matters to me a lot is net neutrality.
And someone here recently mentioned how CAMRA was the most succesful single issue pressure group in the UK. It made me realise that there are more internet geeks in the UK that really give a shit about the internet than really give a shit about ale*.
Virgin Media and it's ilk have been saying really, really worrying things in the UK about the future of the internet in the UK and whether it is truely an open platform.
I believe there is space, oppurtunity and ability for a grass routes UK pressure group that has one, singular aim: "To make Government pass a law establishing the nessecity for any and ever British ISP to provide a net neutral service."
It doesn't solve the world wide issue but it would set an important precendent.
Looking into it there is very little UK centric activity on the subject. There is one e-pertition with a measily 128 signitures here - and it doesn't press the pm to uphold this concept in law. I would glady be seen to be wrong on this though.
We have internet-skill-masters here.
We have talented artists.
We have people who understand law.
We (did) have youtube featured celebrities.
We all know other people. Other forums. I (and LewieP and Mr Grinch - if they wished) can talk to the UK people on Penny-arcade.
I also know a lot of people on badscience.net who could help us.
We have Facebook, and email lists, to virally get our friends on board.
I believe that, with a minimal but not negligible amount of effort, we could make a real difference to the issue of net neutrality in the uk.
We could easily match the 128 signitures
So does anyone fancy helping?
* I love, love, love real ale by the way.
So I've been thinking and one of the things that matters to me a lot is net neutrality.
And someone here recently mentioned how CAMRA was the most succesful single issue pressure group in the UK. It made me realise that there are more internet geeks in the UK that really give a shit about the internet than really give a shit about ale*.
Virgin Media and it's ilk have been saying really, really worrying things in the UK about the future of the internet in the UK and whether it is truely an open platform.
I believe there is space, oppurtunity and ability for a grass routes UK pressure group that has one, singular aim: "To make Government pass a law establishing the nessecity for any and ever British ISP to provide a net neutral service."
It doesn't solve the world wide issue but it would set an important precendent.
Looking into it there is very little UK centric activity on the subject. There is one e-pertition with a measily 128 signitures here - and it doesn't press the pm to uphold this concept in law. I would glady be seen to be wrong on this though.
We have internet-skill-masters here.
We have talented artists.
We have people who understand law.
We (did) have youtube featured celebrities.
We all know other people. Other forums. I (and LewieP and Mr Grinch - if they wished) can talk to the UK people on Penny-arcade.
I also know a lot of people on badscience.net who could help us.
We have Facebook, and email lists, to virally get our friends on board.
I believe that, with a minimal but not negligible amount of effort, we could make a real difference to the issue of net neutrality in the uk.
We could easily match the 128 signitures
So does anyone fancy helping?
* I love, love, love real ale by the way.
Edited: Fixed tags
Er...what exactly is 'net neutrality' ?
And you shall have my axe.
Just tell me what to do.
Just tell me what to do.
Yes, what would be the aims here? To prevent throttling and the like; or access to all areas of the UK; or to ensure all households have a choice of ISPs?
I don't understand the question.
What I can do by myself
What I can't do by myself
Then we just need to whore it out. We need a gimmick - like setting up a UK Net Neutrality Day or something - and get everyone to writetothem on that day. If we are relatively proffesional looking the EFF and BoingBoing might cover it.
Am I insane?
- I'll pony up the cash for a web address.
- I can just strap it to a free blogging service.
- I can fill it with a brief brake down of the problem (though would appreciate help making that good).
- I can detail how to use http://www.writetothem.com to contract your mp and which e-petition to sign.
What I can't do by myself
- Make it pretty
- Make it popular
Then we just need to whore it out. We need a gimmick - like setting up a UK Net Neutrality Day or something - and get everyone to writetothem on that day. If we are relatively proffesional looking the EFF and BoingBoing might cover it.
Am I insane?
Thanks LewieP 
Break down to follow...
Break down to follow...
Sorry, still a blank here.
Net Neutrality is basically as so:
You pay for a connection. It may be limited by amount, and by speed but everything is sent to you as fast as is can be. As fast as the person you are contacting can send it to you..
Your ISP is neutral. If you access Encarta.com your ISP treats it the same as Wikipedia.org.
Basically Virgin Media and others are saying bollocks to net neutrality and instead saying that if Encarta gives Virgin Media loads of money it will preferentially send their data over Wikipedia (for example). So that few second wait for wikipedia stretches out to ten seconds say - because they can't pay. Whilst encarta is lighting fast.
It will destroy the level playing field of the internet.
An anaology is a library where you can borrow anything, but unless the book's author pays a lot, you have to wait before you can rent the book.
You pay for a connection. It may be limited by amount, and by speed but everything is sent to you as fast as is can be. As fast as the person you are contacting can send it to you..
Your ISP is neutral. If you access Encarta.com your ISP treats it the same as Wikipedia.org.
Basically Virgin Media and others are saying bollocks to net neutrality and instead saying that if Encarta gives Virgin Media loads of money it will preferentially send their data over Wikipedia (for example). So that few second wait for wikipedia stretches out to ten seconds say - because they can't pay. Whilst encarta is lighting fast.
It will destroy the level playing field of the internet.
An anaology is a library where you can borrow anything, but unless the book's author pays a lot, you have to wait before you can rent the book.
This is about america - but it holds true (despite the narraters squeaky voice)
Worst case scenario it could end up looking like this mock up:
Though it will more likely be at the back end. Throttling sites who won't pay them.
Extortion basically.
Though it will more likely be at the back end. Throttling sites who won't pay them.
Extortion basically.
I'm not help from the prettyfication side, but I will do my best to make it popular.
You should think how to make it digg friendly.
Lots of lists and humorous pictures.
You should think how to make it digg friendly.
Lots of lists and humorous pictures.
Aha. Yes, count me in, certainly. I can help in both regards. Get a Wordpress blog if you can, don't, for the love of god, just get a Blogger account for this.
Given what I know of some of the folk on here, I think we're 'connected' rather well. If the site is decent enough, simple enough etc. then I think it'd work.
I like your mock-up above, it's giving me ideas.
Given what I know of some of the folk on here, I think we're 'connected' rather well. If the site is decent enough, simple enough etc. then I think it'd work.
I like your mock-up above, it's giving me ideas.
Indeed, It needs a gimmick. Based around a date or event to give it purpose. Though that always lets thing fail quite openly...
I'm heading out in a minute. But I think it's a good little project to help focus my procrastination.
I'm heading out in a minute. But I think it's a good little project to help focus my procrastination.
CUS wrote:
Aha. Yes, count me in, certainly. I can help in both regards. Get a Wordpress blog if you can, don't, for the love of god, just get a Blogger account for this.
Given what I know of some of the folk on here, I think we're 'connected' rather well. If the site is decent enough, simple enough etc. then I think it'd work.
I like your mock-up above, it's giving me ideas.
Given what I know of some of the folk on here, I think we're 'connected' rather well. If the site is decent enough, simple enough etc. then I think it'd work.
I like your mock-up above, it's giving me ideas.
Awesome, cheers I might even go in for hosting.
Just a single static page I think is best. Something people can link to - quickly explaining whats the issue is, and what you should spend the next ten minutes after reading the site doing (emailing your mp/signing petition).
I doubt I have the skill or influence to help in any way that may be useful to you, but if there is anything I can do, count me in. At the very least, count on my full support. Also, Monkey supports net neutrality. 
Do you want people to be able to comment and discuss it there, via comments or forum?
LewieP is right, I think, when he suggests trying to make it Diggable, by adding Lists and things to it. People are more likely to go there and visit if it's appealingly written - and having multiple pages promotes a) visitors staying longer and absorbing the message better, and b) different content that we would have to put on those pages, which in turn we can make 'different' enough that each page becomes worth visiting. Which benefits the campaign.
Also, more visitors = more bandwidth. More pages = more space - fill some of it with some Google Ads to try and help recoup costs.
It's worth getting proper hosting so that there's less chance of your site falls over when it's at its peak; also because that allows us webby folk to 'do stuff' that you can't on just some free blog. Such as suggesting you install Google Analytics on the site (very very easy) so you can see where, when, and how visitors are arriving on the site. Absolutely vital for doing this properly.
LewieP is right, I think, when he suggests trying to make it Diggable, by adding Lists and things to it. People are more likely to go there and visit if it's appealingly written - and having multiple pages promotes a) visitors staying longer and absorbing the message better, and b) different content that we would have to put on those pages, which in turn we can make 'different' enough that each page becomes worth visiting. Which benefits the campaign.
Also, more visitors = more bandwidth. More pages = more space - fill some of it with some Google Ads to try and help recoup costs.
It's worth getting proper hosting so that there's less chance of your site falls over when it's at its peak; also because that allows us webby folk to 'do stuff' that you can't on just some free blog. Such as suggesting you install Google Analytics on the site (very very easy) so you can see where, when, and how visitors are arriving on the site. Absolutely vital for doing this properly.
Thats all incredibly true CUS - but I can't really do that. It's too hard, and I'm too busy at the moment. Maybe later though.
Instead I'm proposing (a far harder task) of creating a decentralised viral movement. Maybe. Kinda.
Anyway - first things first. I think First we need a witty url and a strong gimmick/meme that we can sell to diggers and the like to give it purpose.
Need to brainstorm. How about A monocled 'up July 4th Independence day as it were. Lots of Independence day propaganda retooled with monocles, top hats crumpets and britishness to be about the net neutrality.
Another though - maybe we could convince b3ta to use NN as topic for their photoshopping shennagins. That would produce a wealth of material...
We would need b3tans to convince them of that though...
Instead I'm proposing (a far harder task) of creating a decentralised viral movement. Maybe. Kinda.
Anyway - first things first. I think First we need a witty url and a strong gimmick/meme that we can sell to diggers and the like to give it purpose.
Need to brainstorm. How about A monocled 'up July 4th Independence day as it were. Lots of Independence day propaganda retooled with monocles, top hats crumpets and britishness to be about the net neutrality.
Another though - maybe we could convince b3ta to use NN as topic for their photoshopping shennagins. That would produce a wealth of material...
We would need b3tans to convince them of that though...
Signed!
We should contact ISPs and offer to pay them money to send our site out faster.
Hi there sir! You're an intelligent chap. I didn't half respectfully disagree with your post, however.
Bollocks, sir. There's not a single even slightly hard thing that I've described above, not a one. The hardest thing would be to 1) get a Gmail account, 2) go to the Anayltics page, 3) do CTRL+C, 4) find the right bit within your blog software, to add something to the header of the page (this differs but still, not hard I assure thee), 5) paste it. 6) save it. 7) upload it. 8 ) wait 24 hours or so.
This is a guaranteed and proven method of extending your reach, and I must say, in all my ten years of web development and in my time working for one of the largest online-marketing companies in the world, I've never come across a free tool that's more useful.
Still, if you think you know better, I don't want to tell you what to 'do', sir.
Except without being decentralised, obviously. Arf
And without being viral - this would be an example of guerilla marketing.
1) You think this needs purpose? Er. I do not understand.
2) If you want a net-neutrality meme, the obvious thing would be "This is how your internet would work if you allow this to happen." and example the hideous horrors. There are few things that appeal more to the typical internet user than the suggestion that they'd have to go back to modem speeds 'other than for top-tier premier entertainment portals such as disney.com'.
1) You've picked a day guaranteed to be full of news - July 4th tends to generate lots of stories. Yours will be lost.
2) Every year I read of various independence-related stories e.g. 'All the homosexuals in Townsville, Countyshire gave a proud and rambunctious parade through the rainy streets of Townsville, surprising bemused shoppers and amused commuters alike.' They're cheesy and irritating. Yours will be lost.
3) Your delivery would completely overwhelm the message. There's a reason that people being angry about beer on the tube, drank beer... on the tube. Granted, it's harder when we're talking about a fictional place, but still. Relevance.
I like your idea; I worry however in case it might backfire. I don't go on b3ta, I find it predictable and rapidly tiresome; would there be some guarantee of being 'on message'? b3ta fans will know this.
Lave wrote:
Thats all incredibly true CUS - but I can't really do that. It's too hard, and I'm too busy at the moment. Maybe later though.
Bollocks, sir. There's not a single even slightly hard thing that I've described above, not a one. The hardest thing would be to 1) get a Gmail account, 2) go to the Anayltics page, 3) do CTRL+C, 4) find the right bit within your blog software, to add something to the header of the page (this differs but still, not hard I assure thee), 5) paste it. 6) save it. 7) upload it. 8 ) wait 24 hours or so.
This is a guaranteed and proven method of extending your reach, and I must say, in all my ten years of web development and in my time working for one of the largest online-marketing companies in the world, I've never come across a free tool that's more useful.
Still, if you think you know better, I don't want to tell you what to 'do', sir.
Quote:
Instead I'm proposing (a far harder task) of creating a decentralised viral movement. Maybe. Kinda.
Except without being decentralised, obviously. Arf
And without being viral - this would be an example of guerilla marketing.Quote:
a strong gimmick/meme that we can sell to diggers and the like to give it purpose.
1) You think this needs purpose? Er. I do not understand.
2) If you want a net-neutrality meme, the obvious thing would be "This is how your internet would work if you allow this to happen." and example the hideous horrors. There are few things that appeal more to the typical internet user than the suggestion that they'd have to go back to modem speeds 'other than for top-tier premier entertainment portals such as disney.com'.
Quote:
How about A monocled 'up July 4th Independence day as it were. Lots of Independence day propaganda retooled with monocles, top hats crumpets and britishness to be about the net neutrality.
1) You've picked a day guaranteed to be full of news - July 4th tends to generate lots of stories. Yours will be lost.
2) Every year I read of various independence-related stories e.g. 'All the homosexuals in Townsville, Countyshire gave a proud and rambunctious parade through the rainy streets of Townsville, surprising bemused shoppers and amused commuters alike.' They're cheesy and irritating. Yours will be lost.
3) Your delivery would completely overwhelm the message. There's a reason that people being angry about beer on the tube, drank beer... on the tube. Granted, it's harder when we're talking about a fictional place, but still. Relevance.
Quote:
Another though - maybe we could convince b3ta to use NN as topic for their photoshopping shennagins. That would produce a wealth of material...
I like your idea; I worry however in case it might backfire. I don't go on b3ta, I find it predictable and rapidly tiresome; would there be some guarantee of being 'on message'? b3ta fans will know this.
LewieP wrote:
We should contact ISPs and offer to pay them money to send our site out faster.
This made me laugh.
Then it made me think.
This is a very good idea.
Oooooh good reply CUS 
I meant more about making a proper website - if I could do that Skeptobot would be one.
Going out know - will read and digest that later.
I meant more about making a proper website - if I could do that Skeptobot would be one.
Going out know - will read and digest that later.
Lave wrote:
LewieP wrote:
We should contact ISPs and offer to pay them money to send our site out faster.
This made me laugh.
Then it made me think.
This is a very good idea.
Yeah, I was deadly serious.
Go through all the ISPs, and offer them significant sums of money, and publicise the responses.
I'd be interested in helping with this, but I would personally think it'd be a greater success if it was aimed towards bieng less specific than simply "pro-Net Neutrality" in the long term but rather a general consumer advocacy group on internet issues. There's a hell of a lot of related issues out there (e.g. Phorm, ISP pressuring the BBC to hand over license-fee money over the iPlayer) that could with added publicity. 'Campaign for Internet Freedom' or somesuch.
I'm a crappy designer too, sadly
I'm a crappy designer too, sadly
I sort of agree, halo, but I can just see a more diffuse campaign being less successful, as the message is harder to strip down into one single sentence. This is much easier with single issue campaigns and sadly most people only read that far into anything before deciding whether they care.
It's all about the soundites, sadly.
It's all about the soundites, sadly.
I'm finding it hard to get my head around trying to be pro-neutral something. Do I have to lobby hard for ambivalence?
Over the short-term a single focus is a good idea for getting publicity, but being overly specific may limit its usefulness in the future. That's why something like the 'Campaign for Internet Freedom' would work on both levels, and could also get some publicity on more timely issues as stuff appears.
But I am biased, as I've wanted something like this for years.
But I am biased, as I've wanted something like this for years.
myoptika wrote:
I'm finding it hard to get my head around trying to be pro-neutral something. Do I have to lobby hard for ambivalence?
"What do we want?"
"Whatever, really."
"When do we want it?"
"Whenever's convenient for you. Not too fussed. I'm generally in after 6."
Halo wrote:
Over the short-term a single focus is a good idea for getting publicity, but being overly specific may limit its usefulness in the future. That's why something like the 'Campaign for Internet Freedom' would work on both levels, and could also get some publicity on more timely issues as stuff appears.
"Internet Freedom" is just inviting trouble, if you ask me. Freedom to distribute copyrighted child porn? Is THAT what you mean Halo???????? etc.
An initial, Net Neutrality-focused campaign could be easily folded later into a larger entity. Much in the same way that bands precede albums with hopefully-hit singles.
CUS wrote:
"Internet Freedom" is just inviting trouble me, if you ask me. Freedom to distribute copyrighted child porn? Is THAT what you mean Halo???????? etc.
Well obviously not copyrighted child porn. But I get your point...
Quote:
An initial, Net Neutrality-focused campaign could be easily folded later into a larger entity. Much in the same way that bands precede albums with hopefully-hit singles.
Perhaps, but I'm just saying it might be more difficult if you want to change the band name after releasing your hit single under one name. Or something.
Count me in if you want any graphics doing Lave.
Zardoz wrote:
Count me in if you want any graphics doing Lave.
*twinkle* BE NET NEUTRAL TO EACH OTHER *twinkle*
Keep watching.
What can I say. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Zardoz wrote:
What can I say. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
What's wrong with monkeys, exactly?
Zardoz is no monkey. He just made me a logo for my site, and it's AWESOME!
Compare before:
and after:
Thanks Zardoz!!
Compare before:
Attachment:
dvdbargainslogo.jpg
and after:
Attachment:
dvdbargainslogo.jpg
Thanks Zardoz!!
Looks the same to me.
Zardoz has done a spiffing job for the main BEEX site too. 
I'll sign anything that might help Lave.
I'll sign anything that might help Lave.
You know I'm joking, right?
I did, not sure about Mr Russ though.
What? Why is my humour gland being called into question?
I was just trying to big up Zardoz.
I was just trying to big up Zardoz.
Can we make sure we sound and look nothing like these fuckwits.
Edit: Dammit, I love NIN, but these guys need to learn some new songs.
Edit: Dammit, I love NIN, but these guys need to learn some new songs.
Domains and web hosting can be provided (free, obv) by me, if you want. I don't have to pay for .co.uk domains.
I'm more than happy to provide PERL-y DB goodness.
Also, I am literally four desks down from the Open Rights Group. I'm sure I'll be able to get some linkage / help / free stickers / covering fire for when we storm the Home Office / advice from them.
Also, I am literally four desks down from the Open Rights Group. I'm sure I'll be able to get some linkage / help / free stickers / covering fire for when we storm the Home Office / advice from them.
I'll do a bit of writing and stuff. FAQ, maybe?
I am willing to help. I can write, I can code (particularly Java but most stuff really).
"Network neutrality" is a crap name for nerds. It doesn't convey any information to non-nerds. We need a better slogan. I really like your ISP graphic on the first page though -- more of this please.
"Network neutrality" is a crap name for nerds. It doesn't convey any information to non-nerds. We need a better slogan. I really like your ISP graphic on the first page though -- more of this please.
I'm thinking along the lines of "Information is free" or something. The words buzzing around my head are "free" and oppositely "censor". Slogan/name based on that.
"Choke the chicken, not my porn-connection!"
Need more throttle-based puns.
Please don't throttle!
We don't know whattle
happen. Maybe we'll
hit the bottle.
Aristotle
We don't know whattle
happen. Maybe we'll
hit the bottle.
Aristotle
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