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 Post subject: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:52 
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Kevin Spacey's career is going to ruined by an unsubstantiated 30 year old accusation.

That seems... unfair.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:05 
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He has (allegedly) been doing that sort of thing for a number of years.

That's not internet allegedly - that's from someone that worked for him (and often lived in the same house) for around a decade.

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:09 
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Yeah it sounds like he's kind of notorious amongst those circles. Which I really don't understand, I mean I can understand Weinstein getting away with it for so long because he could make or break careers but someone like Spacey? It seems to have been an open secret that he's a wrongun but people kept on hiring him for acting jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:11 
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Yeah, but he’s gay so that’s ok.

Seriously though, his explanation yesterday is an abhorrent way to excuse his behaviour and I can imagine lots of gay men being very upset with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:11 
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Ah right. So it's similar to Weinstein in that there's probably a queue of (alleged) victims waiting to point the finger. Still... innocent until proven guilty seems to have largely flown the coop on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:13 
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But he's admitted it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:14 
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markg wrote:
But he's admitted it.

Who, Spacey or Weinstein?


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:17 
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DavPaz wrote:
markg wrote:
But he's admitted it.

Who, Spacey or Weinstein?


Both, Spacey claimed 30 year amnesia, then came out as gay.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:18 
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Spacey, but my mistake he hasn't admitted it exactly but rather not denied it and apologised if it did happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:21 
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It's basically a nasty, horrible situation across the board. On a smaller scale, the guy who started Honest Trailers on Youtube has been Weinstein-ed as well with a large number of accusations flying in.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to suggest that the accusations are false, but it's only a matter of time before there are a few false ones flying about. Remember John Leslie?

If I were a Hollywood type, I would currently be avoiding being alone with anybody. I mean, we don't even go into Student bedrooms alone!


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:23 
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Hey, who remembers Spacey's storyline from LA Confidential? Yikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:29 
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DavPaz wrote:
It's basically a nasty, horrible situation across the board. On a smaller scale, the guy who started Honest Trailers on Youtube has been Weinstein-ed as well with a large number of accusations flying in.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to suggest that the accusations are false, but it's only a matter of time before there are a few false ones flying about. Remember John Leslie?

If I were a Hollywood type, I would currently be avoiding being alone with anybody. I mean, we don't even go into Student bedrooms alone!


This sort of behaviour has been brushed under the carpet for years though, the abuse that comes with the casting couch mentality has been the norm since the start of film making.

Even those who have never done anything would have known about it and no matter how rich and powerful they become very few have ever spoken out until recently.

Of course none of this makes it ok for false accusations but maybe this will make the industry police themselves to avoid situations were this can ever happen, which I see as a good thing.

People who would never dream of doing it are protecting themselves from what is now a career ending situation, whist those predators still out there will not be able to be in a position where they can abuse people.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:30 
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asfish wrote:
People who would never dream of doing it are protecting themselves from what is now a career ending situation, whist those predators still out there will not be able to be in a position where they can abuse people.

Good. And I hope all of the scumbags that have done horrible things get what they deserve.

Funny how all of this might have started with Saville.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:31 
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DavPaz wrote:
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to suggest that the accusations are false, but it's only a matter of time before there are a few false ones flying about. Remember John Leslie?


You’ve only got to look at the number of Operation Yewtree prosecutions/charges that failed. Rolf Harris might have been found guilty of some charges but he was also found innocent of others. That might be a bad example cause now he’s a bad man but let’s be careful because there must have been some untruths in a fair few of the accusations made against those arrested.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:49 
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The problem is that the number of false accusations << the number of people who don't speak up about an actual incident.

So yeah, there might be some people jumping on a band wagon, but this whole mentality is part of the reason why so many people don't speak up in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:52 
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Like I said, fucked up.

Wouldn't it be great if people weren't horrible to each other?


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:20 
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I believe victims. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about abuse, and the amount of negative reaction it gets and strain it puts on you and your family makes fabricating stories almost not worth your time. Especially if the perpetrator is famous and well liked.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:23 
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Lonewolves wrote:
I believe victims. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about abuse, and the amount of negative reaction it gets and strain it puts on you and your family makes fabricating stories almost not worth your time. Especially if the perpetrator is famous and well liked.

You're right of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:25 
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I wonder how long it's going to connect this to Bryan Singer.

Edit: and there was the case of Brad Renfro, plus Ian McKellen was photographed at Singer's parties.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:38 
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Lonewolves wrote:
I believe victims. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about abuse, and the amount of negative reaction it gets and strain it puts on you and your family makes fabricating stories almost not worth your time. Especially if the perpetrator is famous and well liked.

Whilst I agree with all of that, that it must take extraordinary courage for people to speak out about abuse they have suffered, none of that actually applies if someone is a fantasist making a false accusation. I don't understand what would motivate people to make such false accusations but neither do I understand what motivates people to abuse others in the way that they have in many of these cases. So for me to presume either way would be idiotic.

It has to be for a court to decide really and to sometimes get wrong and sometimes get right in the way that courts do.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:54 
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markg wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
I believe victims. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about abuse, and the amount of negative reaction it gets and strain it puts on you and your family makes fabricating stories almost not worth your time. Especially if the perpetrator is famous and well liked.

Whilst I agree with all of that, that it must take extraordinary courage for people to speak out about abuse they have suffered, none of that actually applies if someone is a fantasist making a false accusation. I don't understand what would motivate people to make such false accusations but neither do I understand what motivates people to abuse others in the way that they have in many of these cases. So for me to presume either way would be idiotic.

It has to be for a court to decide really and to sometimes get wrong and sometimes get right in the way that courts do.


I mean, I agree on the whole, but often there is very little actual evidence that something happened and it's very much one person's word against another's. Plus you have all the other crap that gets flung at people in these situations. So it's very hard to say let's stick with what we have at the moment...

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 13:33 
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Lonewolves wrote:
I believe victims. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about abuse, and the amount of negative reaction it gets and strain it puts on you and your family makes fabricating stories almost not worth your time. Especially if the perpetrator is famous and well liked.

I broadly agree, but there's plenty of evidence that people have fabricated entire events.

People be odd.

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 16:26 
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Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
I believe victims. It takes a lot of courage to speak out about abuse, and the amount of negative reaction it gets and strain it puts on you and your family makes fabricating stories almost not worth your time. Especially if the perpetrator is famous and well liked.

I broadly agree, but there's plenty of evidence that people have fabricated entire events.

People be odd.

Evidence shows that for every fabricated story there are many more abuses that happen that never come to light. So I will believe victims until proven otherwise, and even sometimes beyond as it is so difficult to actually prove it has happened in a lot of cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 19:01 
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People easily forget that the victims of abuse have nothing to gain and everything to lose by making accusations like this. And the cases where someone is making something up for their moment in the spotlight is dwarfed by instances where it gets minimised into nothingness.

The thing that really gets me, is the indignation of some men, like "Well I can't risk going into a room on my own with a woman in case she makes something up about me, or gets offended if I touch her arm!" Women, for all time, have been second guessing every lone interaction with the vast majority of men they encounter. This whole "can I trust this person" is not new to us, and it is only your privilege up until this point in time - now that some 'typically' male behaviour is being questioned - that brings those trust issues to the front and centre of your world. I'm not saying all men a rapists or abusers, or that men can't imagine what it's like but a lot of men do fail to see the extent of the automatic, birthright privilege that comes from being a man and that does stop them believing things could be any other way.

Ask your wives if they've ever been in a situation with a man that made them nervous. Then ask yourself if you've ever genuinely been concerned a woman might take it upon herself to make up a sexual assault after being alone in a room with you, and then think about how closely that fear is tied specifically to large scale stories of sexual abuse by men in power in the media. Women don't need to read about a serial rapist/groper/flasher on the loose to before they worry about being assaulted or cat-called or otherwise reduced to a sex object, it's a default state for many, in many situations.

A lot of the attitudes that need to change aren't intentionally hurtful or sexist, it's stuff that is deeply ingrained within society as a whole - men and women, straight or otherwise. That person engaged in casual encounters, they were dressed suggestively, they didn't speak out soon enough, they went out alone at night, they knew his reputation when they went in the room with him, they should have tried to avoid the situation, they shouldn't have been so drunk.

I know of a police officer who genuinely thought women who refuse to give evidence or press charges after reporting a sexual assault should be charged with wasting police time. Where do you even begin with changing that kind of institutionalised attitude.

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 19:18 
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:luv:

Agree with all of that, Flis, and appreciate being able to read it from someone who has put it so well.

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 19:22 
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Well said Flis. Well said. Humbling


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 19:48 
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Tinseltown Turmoil would be a great name for a band.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 20:06 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Tinseltown Turmoil would be a great name for a band.


Or wrestler.

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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 20:15 
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Wrestling show, yes! Wrestler? Nah.


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 Post subject: Re: Hollywood Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 20:34 
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Quote:
"Well I can't risk going into a room on my own with a woman in case she makes something up about me, or gets offended if I touch her arm!"


I was speaking to a guy at work last week about all of this Hollywood stuff, he was just like this, complaining about having to watch out etc when in 1-1 meetings with women at work

He told me he had a meeting last month and thought that the nail colour of the women he was speaking too was something his wife would like, he couldn't bring himself to ask her what it was in case she took offence or thought he was trying it on.

It has never crossed my mind to even think like that,

I've no interest in anyone other than my wife that way and wouldn't dream of trying it on or whatever with a woman I was having a 1-1 meeting with.

Good point on woman 2nd guessing, I never gave that any thought before, mostly as I never had any thought of being a pest with women, that said always worth thinking about that in the future as I would hate for any women to think I was a threat due to me not thinking before I spoke or acted etc


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