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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:41 
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Gogmagog

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
Since 23 June 2016, I've not bought one BMW.

So how many did you buy? Two? Three? Brexit demands all patriotic Brits to buy BMWs so the EU won't fuck us over.


Company cars here now jags not bmw

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:42 
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Gogmagog

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
As far as I can tell, the current plan is to have our own customs system that's 100% devised for British needs but, by an amazing coincidence, is just the same as what we've got now, apart from being able to make the rules.

And the EU will sign up to this because reasons / stop talking Britain down / BMW is the tail that will wag the entire EU's dog because they have to sell us cars.

Depressing summary -> http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08 ... -dog-s-bre


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
I cringed watching the news last night when I heard the dreaded term, 'technological solutions'. Was the R4 interview as bad?

As far as I can tell, the current plan is to have our own customs system that's 100% devised for British needs but, by an amazing coincidence, is just the same as what we've got now, apart from being able to make the rules.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4094709 ... ws_central

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:10 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
Since 23 June 2016, I've not bought one BMW.

So how many did you buy? Two? Three? Brexit demands all patriotic Brits to buy BMWs so the EU won't fuck us over.

I bought a 15 year old Merc if that helps at all

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:17 
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I saw a tweet from Brian Cox saying something along the lines of "I have a facial expression reserved for people who think the earth is flat. I was wearing that expression while reading the government paper on the future of the customs union"

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:40 
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The paper doesn't look good from reading a few summaries. I shall read the actual thing in due course.

From what I gather, the best case scenario is frictionless @ the customs side because we will have a certified equivalent standard to the EU?

So that's us having to adhere to all EU guidelines but without any input into them whatsoever?

Is that what others have taken away from it? Please correct if wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:37 
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Curiosity wrote:
The paper doesn't look good from reading a few summaries. I shall read the actual thing in due course.

From what I gather, the best case scenario is frictionless @ the customs side because we will have a certified equivalent standard to the EU?

So that's us having to adhere to all EU guidelines but without any input into them whatsoever?

Is that what others have taken away from it? Please correct if wrong.


"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:42 
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Cras wrote:
"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"


In years to come this will be known as an 'Irish border'. As in, 'Jeff's threat to that bloke was just an Irish Border' or 'we didn't want to interrupt the flow of the lawn as it meets the patio so fitted an Irish Border'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 
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isn't it a type of dog?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:54 
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Irish Border marks out Irish Border:


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:12 
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Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"


In years to come this will be known as an 'Irish border'. As in, 'Jeff's threat to that bloke was just an Irish Border' or 'we didn't want to interrupt the flow of the lawn as it meets the patio so fitted an Irish Border'.


Pretty sure it will come to be known as a Gazchap border.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:15 
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Cras wrote:
Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"


In years to come this will be known as an 'Irish border'. As in, 'Jeff's threat to that bloke was just an Irish Border' or 'we didn't want to interrupt the flow of the lawn as it meets the patio so fitted an Irish Border'.


Pretty sure it will come to be known as a Gazchap border.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:43 
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Cras wrote:
I saw a tweet from Brian Cox saying something along the lines of "I have a facial expression reserved for people who think the earth is flat. I was wearing that expression while reading the government paper on the future of the customs union"


Bull. Brian Cox has got literally one facial expression.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:46 
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I've just realised that when the customs talks fail, the government will spin it as 'bonkers Eurocrats want to stop your booze cruise' rather than, say, a complete and utter failure of policy planning or negotiation.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:49 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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I think that may well have been the plan all along. No planning or preparation, and point finger at EU when everything goes to hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:00 
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I think that's giving too much credit. The only plan they had was that the referendum was going to go the other way. The only plan they have had ever since can be summed up as "oh shit".


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:05 
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Remember kids: if you spend 40 years opposing something, be sure to have a plan ready when you get your victory.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:06 
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Sleepyhead

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Kern wrote:
Remember kids: if you spend 40 years opposing something, be sure to have a plan ready when you get your victory.


It's a longer term version of the Republicans and the ACA.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:07 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:


That really is scary.

If Davis and Boris and friends were in charge of, say, organising your wedding, and at this stage of proceedings you asked them how the plans were going, and the answer to everything was 'Mali's Wizards', you'd immediately sack them and never let them be in charge of anything ever again.

Then you'd cancel the wedding because you never loved the person that much anyway and had realised the whole thing was a horrible mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:08 
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Hearthly wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:


That really is scary.

If Davis and Boris and friends were in charge of, say, organising your wedding, and at this stage of proceedings you asked them how the plans were going, and the answer to everything was 'Mali's Wizards', you'd immediately sack them and never let them be in charge of anything ever again.

Then you'd cancel the wedding because you never loved the person that much anyway and had realised the whole thing was a horrible mistake.


She was 52% into me! No going back!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:12 
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Cras wrote:
Pretty sure it will come to be known as a Gazchap border.

:DD


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 18:17 
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Upside down, inside outside and whole lot more... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08 ... rd-border/

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:47 
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Another good piece by that Ian Dunt chap. I shall be keeping an eye on his work.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08 ... -own-delus

Quote:
What's fascinating about this proposal is that it throws into stark relief one of the core choices Britain has to make when it comes to Brexit. Is it going to apply European standards or American ones? They have dodged this question throughout the last year, but here we see them finally being forced to confront it. If we sign up to European standards on food, chemical safety, digital rights, pharmaceuticals and the rest, we're of little use to the US. If we don't, we will have completely disconnected ourselves from our largest trading partner. The cake-and-eat-it theory is finally meeting the cold light of reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:01 
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David Davis begs the EU to do the thing they categorically said they wouldn't do.

Such a strong negotiating position we're in here, Barnier must be absolutely shitting himself.

THE FRENCH WILL STILL WANT TO SELL US CHEESE IT'S IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS WE'VE GOT THEM OVER A BARREL BOYS.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -same-time


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 14:10 
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Removing all trade tariffs and barriers would help generate an annual £135bn uplift to the UK economy, according to a group of pro-Brexit economists.

I'm certainly no expert on this, but reading through the article, I'm inclined to agree with the 'economic suicide' description of the plan.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 14:22 
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I don't believe there's a nation on Earth that is offering or would sign a barrier-free trade deal. So that's a pretty redundant position to hold.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 14:28 
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I think we should hold out for the 'every other country on earth just gives us all their money' Brexit deal, anything else and they can go whistle, frankly.

The Germans will still want to sell us BMWs, you see. Which we will buy with the money they've given us.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 14:30 
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Home Office in 'not fit for purpose' shock.

Guardian: Home Office apologises for letters threatening to deport EU nationals

I'm also pretty disgusted by this.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 13:34 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
I've just realised that when the customs talks fail, the government will spin it as 'bonkers Eurocrats want to stop your booze cruise' rather than, say, a complete and utter failure of policy planning or negotiation.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4316796/d ... st-eu/amp/

Quote:
DAVID Davis is preparing to attack Brussels negotiators for being “stubborn and unreasonable” in a bid to create a split between them and EU.
The Brexit Secretary’s broadside is being drawn up after senior British officials revealed they expect a third round of face to face EU exit talks in the Belgian capital next week to again end in bitter stand-off

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:18 
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A satisfyingly unambiguous statement on Brexit by Labour, which now gives us a clear choice between the Tories' plan which appears to be to blow everything up in an economic clusterfuck of biblical proportions, or a Labour policy that gives us a reasonable chance of surviving the Brexit process with the economy intact.

Keir Starmer could prove to be a great electoral asset for Labour, I think. The smart money would be on letting him be Labour's face of Brexit, and leave Corbyn to do the campaigning he's so good at.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017 ... ost-brexit


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:43 
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Hearthly wrote:
A satisfyingly unambiguous statement on Brexit by Labour, which now gives us a clear choice between the Tories' plan which appears to be to blow everything up in an economic clusterfuck of biblical proportions, or a Labour policy that gives us a reasonable chance of surviving the Brexit process with the economy intact.

Keir Starmer could prove to be a great electoral asset for Labour, I think. The smart money would be on letting him be Labour's face of Brexit, and leave Corbyn to do the campaigning he's so good at.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017 ... ost-brexit


Ironically I'm in Rome (outside the Pantheon of all places.... much awesomeness) but I genuinely LOLed :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:36 
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BBC: UK 'must not allow itself to be blackmailed', according to TV's Famously Disgraced Minister Dr Liam Fox.

Forgive me for talking the country down, but I don't think we hold the upper hand in these negotiations. Made worse given it appears we started the whole process before deciding what we wanted out of it all.

It's also annoying that because I'm not the target audience for these comments (not being a hardline Brexiteer on the Tory backbenches or tabloid editor), it comes across as extremely embarrassing for all concerned. Just as well we have a decent opposition and a leader calling them out on all this.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 21:58 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 22:27 
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Has nobody assessed if the NHS could cope with a sudden influx of retirees from Spain?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 23:28 
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Kern wrote:
Has nobody assessed if the NHS could cope with a sudden influx of retirees from Spain?

I'm sure our responsible Government Of Grown Ups has completed as thorough and thoughtful impact assessment of this as it has for all aspects of Brexit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:31 
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More Brexit joy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ng-us-dear

Quote:
The price of their support has been to split Britain down the middle. Whatever side you cleave to, can we at least agree that, as the pound sinks towards parity with the euro and real wages fall, our country is in a perilous position? With effectively a year left to complete the article 50 negotiations there is no progress worth mentioning. If nothing changes, we will either crash out of the EU with no plan for the future or be forced to admit that Brussels can do as it pleases. This isn’t an argument between Remainers and Leavers but between realists and fantasists.

May joined the fantasists the moment she entered Downing Street and I wonder if she can ever break free. By pandering to the right, she has increased the power of the right and made the only story that millions hear the story that the right wants to tell.

Step away from the liberal world for a moment and walk in the shoes of Leave supporters. They won a democratic vote and cannot see why we cannot just impose immigration controls and cut all links without paying a penny.

No one in the government has hammered home the uncomfortable truth that clearly we will have to pay a divorce bill if we want to extract concessions from the EU on trade and jobs. Clearly, too, the EU will try to push it as high as it can. Instead, May has struck fantastical poses: that the European court of justice can have no say in British life, for instance, even though dozens of legal and trade agreements have it as the court of final appeal.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:54 
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Step away from the liberal world for a moment and walk in the shoes of Leave supporters. They won a democratic vote and cannot see why we cannot just impose immigration controls and cut all links without paying a penny.


That's the part that worries me most. All those people are going to feel betrayed and even more disillusioned with the system, leaving opportunities for any cynical and exploitative demagogue wanting to ride to victory.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:57 
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Kern wrote:
Quote:
Step away from the liberal world for a moment and walk in the shoes of Leave supporters. They won a democratic vote and cannot see why we cannot just impose immigration controls and cut all links without paying a penny.


That's the part that worries me most. All those people are going to feel betrayed and even more disillusioned with the system, leaving opportunities for any cynical and exploitative demagogue wanting to ride to victory.


Would work well for Labour

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 15:19 
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Quote:
And then came the oldest, most foolish Brexit delusion of all - that the UK should prepare to walk away from the talks.

No-one who proposes this ever mentions how they plan to maintain flights from or to UK airports without an agreement on Open Skies, or transport nuclear materials without an agreement on Euratom, or get goods into and out of Britain without customs infrastructure in place on the Channel, or allow people to leave and enter the UK without an immigration system designed for them. The notion that the Europeans could be bluffed into capitulation by us threatening to blow our own face off would be laughable if it were not leading us so relentlessly towards the very real possibility that we might actually do it.


http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/09/01/ ... -no-answer


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 17:24 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:40 
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Giphy "well played!":
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:45 
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Polly in fine attacking form today.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ons-labour

Quote:
Today parliament returns, led by the most dangerously incompetent and decadent government in modern times. This parliament will seal the country’s fate permanently and, on current form, fatally: nothing in the conduct of Brexit suggests any understanding of the cataclysm ahead. Instead the summer has seen only callow jockeying for position between would-be Tory leaders of unbelievable unsuitability.

Their frivolity was summed up by David Davis dismissing EU negotiator Michel Barnier as “silly”. But silliness is now Britain’s official position. Those who holidayed in the EU this summer will have met that amazement from taxi drivers, bartenders, students and old-timers alike: they think we are mad. And so we are. What else can they make of a country with Boris Johnson as foreign secretary? According to Sunday’s Survation poll, he is favourite to take over from Theresa May, with Jacob Rees-Mogg in second place. As if despairing of politics, many voters seem to prefer any alternative reality to the one we face.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:37 
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Sky's Fasial Islam has a similarly interesting take on the Conservatives' dilemma.

Quote:
This isn't anything like poker. In poker your hand is secret, in Brexit the hands are abundantly clear to all. They are called official statistics. In fact this is no conventional card game at all. The card you think you have can start to change depending on how you play it. Above all, the main aim of this game is not about creating one single winner, it is about avoiding a situation where everybody loses. With Brexit you are playing five such games simultaneously, the main one with Europe, another with the Cabinet, another with Parliament, yet another with the electorate, and with the animal spirits of British business


I'm increasingly turning to think that Mrs May failed on day one, or even during the leadership campaign. She couldn't win over the Tory right by promising anything other than the hardest Brexit possible, but in so doing she tied her fate to that, rather than keeping her options over to scoop up those less sure of its righteousness. She was thrown a bone by the Supreme Court, and could have used that opportunity for a tactical delay and regrouping, but she didn't take it for fear of upsetting her critics. Crash out of the EU by 2022, and leave Labour or a moderate Tory party to pick up the pieces seems to be her only way out.

The Tories always rail against governing based on ideology or grand schemes, yet it seems the hard core Brexit gang are doing just that.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:13 
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It's like a child announcing at the dinner table that they're off to do a big poo.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-04/may-aims-to-advance-brexit-talks-with-speech-in-coming-weeks


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:14 
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This is straight out of the Donald Trump playbook. Promise something 'amazing' in two weeks; keep 'em on edge.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:19 
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Findus Fop wrote:
It's like a child announcing at the dinner table that they're off to do a big poo.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-04/may-aims-to-advance-brexit-talks-with-speech-in-coming-weeks


More like my 90 year old gran saying, 'I'm just going to try the toilet.'


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:24 
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Pleading for an extension for her coursework? Pathetic.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:40 
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Hmm... that's well before the Tory conference, and just ahead of Labour's.* Going to have to be something to knock attention away from Labour. Perhaps 'indefinite transition' or 'I can't believe it's not the Norway option'?

* Wikipedia timetable, to plan your viewing.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:42 
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Then again, 22nd September is also ITV's 62nd birthday, so perhaps she's going to elevate Ant and Dec to the House of Lords.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 18:42 
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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

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