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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 15:58 
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sneering elitist

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DavPaz wrote:
That's cool, people are of course free to vote however they feel, but Tees valley turning blue makes me sick. Short, short memories.


It certainly makes the upcoming general more terrifying (for which I wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 16:17 
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Gogmagog

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Jem wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
That's cool, people are of course free to vote however they feel, but Tees valley turning blue makes me sick. Short, short memories.


It certainly makes the upcoming general more terrifying (for which I wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it)

What if the Tory Council guy stood for MP?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 16:18 
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I'd say I hope I don't get sick, but my psoriasis probably already marks me out as somebody to be thinned from the herd.

But! We still have the Senate to go, and they seem to be of the mind to start again by writing a new bill from scratch. Meanwhile, the further Left elements continue beating up on the Center (sp) of the Democrats and I'm trying not to point at the UK and scream 'THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO THAT'. But we must have our purity, eh, lads?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 16:40 
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sneering elitist

Joined: 25th May, 2014
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MaliA wrote:
Jem wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
That's cool, people are of course free to vote however they feel, but Tees valley turning blue makes me sick. Short, short memories.


It certainly makes the upcoming general more terrifying (for which I wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it)

What if the Tory Council guy stood for MP?


I wouldn't vote for him :shrug: at that point wider issues come into play than local dog fouling and whether or not the main road potholes will be sorted.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 17:49 
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Peter St. John wrote:
I'd say I hope I don't get sick, but my psoriasis probably already marks me out as somebody to be thinned from the herd.


Pfft. It marks you as one of the chosen.

I have to say, chronic psoriasis has always made me feel so grateful for, and dependent on, the NHS that I applaud your bravery in emigrating.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 18:10 
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In one of those bitter ironies, it didn't start until I came over here. Changing jobs lead to the discovery that not all employer-backed insurance schemes are equal - going to Target to be informed that the prescription I was getting for $15 would now be over $400 was…an interesting day!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 20:20 

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I can't quite put into words how disappointed I am at how many seats the tories managed to pick up in Scotland. Labour, Lib Dem, Green - anything else would be fine. But the TORIES? Really?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 20:26 
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TheCookie197 wrote:
I can't quite put into words how disappointed I am at how many seats the tories managed to pick up in Scotland. Labour, Lib Dem, Green - anything else would be fine. But the TORIES? Really?

Share our pain, oh Caledonian neighbour


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 21:43 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Its very disappointing that people are allowed to vote for the party they want to win the election.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:53 
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According to the Oxford Mail the Green candidate in Oxford West & Abingdon is standing down to help the Liberal Democrats reclaim the seat from the Tories. Not much use to me as I don't live there anymore, but this could be the start of a trend.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 11:05 
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Isn't that lovely?

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The thing is, the Greens are always willing to help, and are one of the leading voices in the progressive alliance talks. It needs the Lib Dems and Labour to reciprocate to have any chance of doing it, and the leaders won't, because they want to be considered as "big parties" and the Tories will start saying "see, I told you, coalition of chaos". So that leaves it down to regional parties deciding to go it alone, and I think it's harder for an individual to stand aside, rather than someone from above telling you to stand aside.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 13:03 
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MrChris wrote:
Its very disappointing that people are allowed to vote for the party they want to win the election.

It's disappointing that people are allowed to express disappointment with the results


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 13:58 
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DavPaz wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Its very disappointing that people are allowed to vote for the party they want to win the election.

It's disappointing that people are allowed to express disappointment with the results
I ... what?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 14:18 
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EXACTLY


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 21:00 
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M. Macron wins; France gets to be insufferably smug towards Britain and the USA.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 21:04 
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Phew! The world isn't totally crazy, perhaps


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 21:44 
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INFINITE POWAH

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DavPaz wrote:
EXACTLY

You're an odd boy, Charlie Brown.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 22:16 
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Unpossible!

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MrChris wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
EXACTLY

You're an odd boy, Charlie Brown.

You love it


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 17:28 
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I'm currently reading 'More Sex, Lies, and the Ballot Box', edited by Philip Cowley and Robert Ford.

Like its predecessor, it's a collection of short chapters (no more than 1000 words each) on various aspects of political behaviour, from the role of the weather to why young people don't vote.

I wish I'd read a volume like this years ago as it really reminds me how interesting political science, politics, and people can be when written in an accessible style.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 19:03 
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Gogmagog

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Who wants to see P Davies's election bumpf?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 20:34 
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You say 'Shipley', I say 'P'.

"Shipley"

"P"

"SHIPLEY!"

"P!"


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 23:53 
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Gogmagog

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You'll have to wait until tomorrow, you dogs.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:44 
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EvilTrousers

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Prick tease...

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:06 
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Gogmagog

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Sorry, was out.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:26 
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EvilTrousers

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Oh look - a prick.

I like* how the second most important thing on his leaflet is "No to political correctness" because if there's one thing that's at the heart of all society's problems right now it's not being able to say "Gollywog" or point out that women get a really raw deal under the current system.

*find it reprehensible - the prick.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 17:35 
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Trousers wrote:
I like* how the second most important thing on his leaflet is "No to political correctness" because if there's one thing that's at the heart of all society's problems right now it's not being able to say "Gollywog" or point out that women get a really raw deal under the current system..


On the upside, it means we can call him what we like to his face and he can't complain.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:21 
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Mr Trump has fired the FBI director and in the dismissal letter states that he was assured he's not under investigation over Russia. A strange thing to include, because why mention it unless you were concerned people might connect the two?

The USA and the world never had this much fun under his predecessor.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:09 
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CPS aren't bringing charges regarding election spending in 2015. They haven't ruled on Thanet yet, where the Tories were trying to crush Mr Farage.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:59 
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An interesting read here, addressing the old 'How are you going to pay for it?' question that always get levelled at politicians, especially lefty types who like to spend money on nice things for people.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... ay-for-it/

Quote:
We’re not going to pay for it. We’re going to issue debt to pay for it. That’s because people like pension funds, the banking system and prudent savers are exceptionally keen to buy that debt. But more than that, government debt is just money. Read what it says on any bank note and you’ll realise that is true. And a growing economy needs more money and it’s the government’s job to create it. So we will. In that case who will pay? You could say it’s the people who are queuing up to save with the government who will pay. And we’re doing them a favour by letting them do just that.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 
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Isn't this missing the prices part of the velocity of money argument?

MV=PY where M is money supply, V is the velocity (how quickly all exchanges can be carried out), P is prices and Y is output.

So if we keep on increasing the money supply by creating debt and spending it on good stuff, output (Y) or prices (P) must rise to maintain the equilibrium. Or, if P rises, M (or V) must rise.

Of course, the tricky bit in economics is working out M, V, P, Y, and the necessary timescales.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:24 
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I would comment about the latest scandal engulfing Mr Trump but they've been coming so thick and fast for weeks/months/years that it's exhausting to both keep up and hope that finally he'll be held to account for it.

It's not good for one's health to think about him that much anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:31 
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I think it's utterly fascinating. You've got seasoned political commentators with decades of experience just totally confused by where the political landscape is and what is going on. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 
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Yes, the reports on the radio this morning were saying "The White House has denied the allegations."

Well of course they have, even if they're true they just make their own version of the truth, and tell you to stop living in the past when it takes you longer than a few days to investigate the latest thing that would have seen any other administration kicked out and jailed.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:37 
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Cras wrote:
. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?


That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:42 
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Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
. It's demonstrated just how leaky the US political system is - being so driven by convention, what happens when the conventions are just blatantly ignored?


That's a good way of putting it. Conventions matter just as much as rules. A shrewd political operator will continually push to see how far the system can stretch (eg Lincoln; FDR) before it springs back and hits him in the face (eg Nixon). Once the support from the GOP goes, so will Mr Trump.


Although the only shrewdness I detect on Mr Trump's part is that of a dodgy car salesman, not a modern Machiavelli.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 
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You see, running a superpower is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman...


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 
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There will be a tipping point. If Trump makes it through the year, there's going to be a lot of congressional republicans looking at the poll numbers for the 2018 election and not liking what they see. They're already past the tipping point of actually having anything to gain from a republican president.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:24 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slG2DFIsFok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AteyTNe5I&t=141s
As good an explanation as any.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 15:40 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Hearthly wrote:
An interesting read here, addressing the old 'How are you going to pay for it?' question that always get levelled at politicians, especially lefty types who like to spend money on nice things for people.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... ay-for-it/

Quote:
We’re not going to pay for it. We’re going to issue debt to pay for it. That’s because people like pension funds, the banking system and prudent savers are exceptionally keen to buy that debt. But more than that, government debt is just money. Read what it says on any bank note and you’ll realise that is true. And a growing economy needs more money and it’s the government’s job to create it. So we will. In that case who will pay? You could say it’s the people who are queuing up to save with the government who will pay. And we’re doing them a favour by letting them do just that.

After three years away, I went back to read El Murphs drivel and it is good to note that his normal standard of choosing the facts that he wants to reflect whilst ignoring all others is standing him in good stead.

He makes two fundamental points - that issuing debt at historically low interest rates to buy back shares in utilities is effectively free money, because the debt service cost is virtually nil and also, as the borrowing is matched with assets, there is no increase in the deficit.

1 - It may be cheap to borrow today, but no government ever repays its debt - it refinances it. So you can borrow today at 1% but when those bonds come up for redemption, the rate of interest on the replacement debt could be significantly higher. Therefore, arguing to load debt now is a short term view at best.

2 - If you do load up with debt, then your cost of further debt is likely to automatically increase as a result, thus reinforcing point 1.

I hate the "Economy as a household" analogy as it is nearly always bullshit, but in this case, I could theoretically go (today) and buy a house twice the price as my current house and keep my mortgage payment the same as I am currently on 4.5%, but will shortly drop to 2% (and that would apply on that theoretical mortgage too). But, when that subsequent fixed term ends, if mortgage rates have returned to normal, I'd be absolutely fucked on the remortgage, so this plan is a terrible idea.

Secondly - the idea that the debt is matched by an asset. Yes, kind of. However, the purpose of the buyback is to then impose a not for profit emphasis to the utility provider. But when you buy it, you're paying a price premium for all those lovely profits that the utility generates, that you will immediately strike out on day 1 and devalue your investment, so it absolutely would add to the deficit.

So the short, medium and long term analysis that there is no cost to the government of this proposal is incorrect. There may be very, very good reasons to do it, but because it is cost free is not a valid reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 15:48 
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People are fed up with experts, Riles.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 15:52 
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I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness.
Attachment:
votingreactions.png


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 16:28 
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Mr Russell wrote:
I just stuck this on facebook as hopefully a way to work out if there's anyone from work I can cull for having opposing views to me and thereby increase my facebook happiness and echo-chamberiness.
Attachment:
votingreactions.png


I've avoided that dilemma by failing to add anyone from work.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 17:39 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Having a rather limited Facebook audience (Hi!), I was limited until last week to only one person with offensive political views. That too resolved itself at the weekend when the intolerable cunt (my wife's sister in law) blocked both me and the wife as part of the snowball of shit that has gradually built over the past two years.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 18:12 
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Everything's coming up APoD.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 19:10 
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Mr Trump wrote:
“No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.”

Guardian

Oh dear.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 19:12 
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Gabrielle Giffords probably disagrees. Also Oliver Cromwell.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 19:15 
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Poor old Emperor Maximilian.

And of course, remember Aed!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 19:22 
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And Pontius Pilate.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 17:18 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-39962595

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Kezia Dugdale urges SNP to 'shun' Wings Over Scotland


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 20:31 
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INFINITE POWAH

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"We .... we .... we"

What a fucking tool.

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