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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 14:05 
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Sleepyhead

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Grim... wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I hadn't seen anything about this, saw this thread then thought yay! a sequel. Then realised it's PC only, wtf? :(

That's hardly surprising for the initial release of an RTS game, chap.


Wait, it's RTS?

I have read nothing about it, and don't have a PC that can run it, but that would sadden me.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 14:07 
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Curiosity wrote:
Wait, it's RTS?

No. Grim...'s an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 14:11 
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It's TBS, as it has always been

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 14:30 
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Oh yeah, of course it is.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
No. Grim...'s an idiot.

iPad Pros can work monitors.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 15:07 
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Cras wrote:
It's TBS, as it has always been


Good.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 15:36 
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Obligatory "Your mum's turn-based."


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 16:51 
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Quick performance report on my iMac (27", i7 3.4 GHz, 12 GB, Radeon 6970M w/1 GB): janky as fuck at 2560x1440; OK at 720p. Really ugly dither dissolve effect when you mouse over walls and the game removes them so you can see.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 17:07 
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Yeah, first reports haven't been great performance wise, which is surprising given how smooth XCOM was.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 17:28 
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The iMac has a stupidly weak GPU, so I don't mind the jank at silly-oh-res. But the dithering is awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 17:46 
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Rude Belittler

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No release on a proper games machine... I won't bother then.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 18:23 
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So, they've got Fred Dinenage explaining HOW2 strike from the shadows. Amazing:



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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:01 
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This is fucking good.

Setting up concealed ambushes is excellent fun. Perhaps unsurprisingly to some, I spend most of my time twatting aliens with swords.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 14:51 
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The Ranger is excellent..the only problem is when they rush toward an opponent, try to murderise them and all you hear is CLANG...oops it's armoured and I am screwed.

Not sure about the timers though.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 16:09 
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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 16:10 
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Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 16:11 
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Hearthly wrote:
Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.

I'm not having a problem with them.

The current mission I'm on has a 12 round timer, for example. That's fucking forever. And half the maps don't have them at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 16:12 
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Fucking love Singham. Where's the save file?

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 16:32 
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I forgot about this - how vain

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This is fucking brilliant. Only had a couple of hours to play, but I've loved every second. Once again, they've distilled what makes boardgames good and made a wonderful one player experience out of it.

Surprisingly good story too. Especially as so much of it is self created.

Been playing this and watching X-files. It's 1994 all over again.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 16:46 
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Hearthly wrote:
Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.


Already done...there are a number of 'timer modifier' mods in the workshop.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 18:31 
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Grim... wrote:
Fucking love Singham. Where's the save file?

Well, I exported him into a new character pool but I'm jiggered if I can find where OS X puts them. Sorry. You'll have to recreate him -- you can see the settings I used in the screenshot. Only takes a couple of minutes.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 18:32 
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Hearthly wrote:
Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.

I think you should keep an open mind and not have a knee-jerk reaction against them because they are different. They're clearly a key mechanic, and not one Firaxis have added lightly.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 18:46 
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I forgot about this - how vain

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Agreed.

It's interesting in how it forces you to push. I have snipers who I position high on overwatch as my rangers dart forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 19:31 
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I am absolutely terrible at this, and despite my best efforts never seem able to set up a successful concealment ambush.

I've had to drop difficulty down to Rookie - what the hell's happened to me?


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 20:16 
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Hello Hello Hello

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Morte wrote:
Not sure about the timers though.


I'm rather hoping these will get modded out.

I think you should keep an open mind and not have a knee-jerk reaction against them because they are different. They're clearly a key mechanic, and not one Firaxis have added lightly.


I entirely take your point but it's hard to overstate how much I hate it when games force me forwards against my instincts and my preferred way of playing - I love taking my time and exploring everything and feeling as safe as possible, right from my very earliest experiences with the genre (and I'm going back to the Rebelstar/Laser Squad era on the ZX Spectrum here).

I remember playing through the original Command & Conquer on PC and discovering that the AI was too dumb to blast its way through walls I built as it didn't see them as 'hostile', as long as all the AI's units were also out of range of my base/units, so if I left it no route whatsoever into my base it would simply amass a huge force on my 'wall border' and do nothing with them indefinitely, which gave me infinite time to prepare the perfect base and force to annihilate the would-be invaders with zero casualties, even if it took until 3am in the morning to complete a single level (which it did, and absolutely brought my 486 DX-2 to its knees as I don't think the game engine was designed to cope with so much 'stuff' being active at once).

Same goes for all other RTS games and suchlike, I love to turtle down and do things on my own timetable, the levels I disliked the most in Dungeon Keeper 2 were the ones where I had aggressive dungeon breaches to deal with from very early on. (And the one single thing I'd identify as not liking about the Terran campaign on Starcraft 2 as opposed to the original, is the way Starcarft 2 is constantly nagging at you to 'GO HERE, DO THIS, TIME IS SHORT'.)

I appreciate this is very much a case of 'me not liking the mechanic of a turn timer' (or similar) rather than there being anything inherently wrong with the mechanic, but it is a consideration for me when it comes to X-Com 2. That said, when I buy the game (which I will) I'll most likely try it as Firaxis intended it to be to start with, but equally likely mod it out when I remember I do indeed really not like turn timers :)


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 21:03 
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I used to build a line of sandbags all the way to the enemy base and wall them in. Then build turrets in their base.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 22:06 
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Hopefully someone will mod the aliens out for you, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 22:27 
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The timers work well because they are entirely thematically consistent with the rest of XCOM. They require you to carefully gauge risk, and reward -- and then balance them against each other. It's just another layer on top of the eight or nine you are already juggling: you never have enough of anything to do everything, and this time around, even your time is (sometimes) constrained that way too.

I used to play XCOM very cautiously. Move one AP only, set overwatch, repeat. When I returned to XCOM to play Enemy Within, the new Meld mechanic forced me outside my comfort zone, and that's entirely in the spirit of the game. You're supposed to sweat a little, and agonise over tiny decisions with huge consequences.

Also the last mission I had had a 12-turn timer and I evac'd with 7 turns on the clock. One before that I finished on the very last turn, but only because I (deliberately) played it very safe at the end knowing I had time to reach the goal.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:50 
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Rookie Bajirao Singham is "shaken" and has reduced Will. FFS XCOM, don't you know who this is?

It's also made him a Specialist which is also rubbish.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:13 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Rookie Bajirao Singham is "shaken" and has reduced Will. FFS XCOM, don't you know who this is?

It's also made him a Specialist which is also rubbish.


Now he's losing his MIND!

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:50 
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Curiosity wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Rookie Bajirao Singham is "shaken" and has reduced Will. FFS XCOM, don't you know who this is?

It's also made him a Specialist which is also rubbish.


Now he's losing his MIND!

Why is there no head-poking gif for this? Someone that owns the DVD should fix that immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:43 
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Well, dropping difficulty down to Rookie has helped - although the complexity of the new Geoscape is going to take a bit of getting used to, seems like there's about three million different things I need to pay attention to this time around!


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:14 
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GazChap wrote:
although the complexity of the new Geoscape is going to take a bit of getting used to, seems like there's about three million different things I need to pay attention to this time around!
I think that's just unfamiliarity. Like, making contact with areas and building radio comms rooms is just like satellites in XCOM, but it took me a bit to realise that. (Also, my typical XCOM strategy is to rush satellites and I think I completely spannered that up this time.)

Does anyone else think the Dark Events are a lot like the You Can Choose Which Terrible Thing Will Happen But At Least One Will card mechanism in the XCOM board game?


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:50 
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Yeah, they totally are. But then, they seem to have ramped up massively the "We're going to give you a variety of options. We're not going to lie, they're all shit and are basically just there to highlight how hard a job you're going to have stopping the aliens this time, but Image

The timed missions (the ones that don't end in instant failure) particularly.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:53 
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I quite like Kotaku's description of the game: “turn based grief simulator”.

also the line in their review...

Quote:
...you recently researched armor that will hopefully keep your low level troops from getting one-shotted by The Big Shapeshifting Assholes, The Robot Assholes, and The Assholes Who Can Fucking Teleport Are You Fucking Kidding Me.


Codex Aliens are the effing worst (so far).

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 13:05 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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i want to get this, but I have to finished the previous one...

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 13:51 
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http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-bril ... player-745

Vice love the time limits

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:26 
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MaliA wrote:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-brilliant-new-strategy-game-xcom-2-turns-time-itself-against-the-player-745

Vice love the time limits


I'm happy to be proven wrong in the fullness of time, but reading that piece (even though it was written in praise of the mechanic) - makes the whole 'hurry up' thing sound like something I'll really dislike.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:34 
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Paws for thought

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I'd concur. I generally don't like being rushed in games anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:43 
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Title of your sex tape.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 16:44 
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Play different games that don't have time limits :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 17:21 
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Paws for thought

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Lonewolves wrote:
Play different games that don't have time limits :shrug:

Indeed.

Look at how much I've played XCOM 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 17:27 
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UltraMod

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I can't wait for them to mod Football Manager into an FPS.

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 17:36 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Play different games that don't have time limits :shrug:

Indeed.

Look at how much I've played XCOM 2.


:this:

Waiting for it cheap in a sale.

Without the whole 'hurry up' thing so firmly embedded, it'd quite likely have been a Day One purchase for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 19:00 
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Press caps lock to cut loading times by up to 30 seconds :?:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... -in-xcom-2

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 20:00 
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Disk transfer rates are higher in uppercase

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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 21:03 
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Caps lock is cruise control for cool.

bUT yOU sTILL hAVE to sTEER


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 23:39 
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Just fought through my first Avenger Defense mission.

Cor blimey, a bit tough, eh? 27 out of 32 aliens killed before I made it back to the landing pad.

1 soldier killed, 7 gravely wounded.

I get the feeling that the agonising wait period of having to ignore missions in order to get my squad back to full health has basically put me in an unwinnable game state :/


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 
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If you look at the Steam and Metacritic negative user reviews, many of which are clearly written by people who aren't:

1) Imbeciles
2) Just hating on the game for the sake of it

and are:

1) Measured and considered opinions of the game and how it works
2) A serious critique of the new 'hurry up' mechanics

The same themes come through time and time again, too much RNG, not enough chance to act strategically, run 'n gun required, bugs, glitches, magical enemies, obvious optimal strategy etc etc.

Current split on Metacritic for users is 134 negative, 65 mixed, 331 positive. Steam shows a better split for positive, 5019 versus 1717 - but the negatives do bring up all those same criticisms again and again.

Eurogamer reports that Firaxis are working on a patch for various issues, mods can perhaps take care of the timers and suchlike, although one of the reviews suggests that the game is only difficult because of the timers forcing you into 'rush' style tactics, remove that and it actually becomes very easy.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/xcom- ... t=negative

http://store.steampowered.com/app/26850 ... views_hash

Quote:
XCOM 2 is challenging, but for the wrong reasons. Most of it comes from the randomness that exists as its core mechanic, from the level design (procedural), to hit chances, to turn limit sizes, to world map events. Whether you'll like it or not depends on what you want out of it.

Personally, I'd prefer a more tightly designed game that is harder than this (more enemies in maps +bigger maps +more "puzzle-y" encounters), but without the timers and stress and RNG everywhere. I'd rather have developer-designed maps and missions with tough encounters where you need to utilize the terrain and your equipment in the right way, rather than proceduraly generated missions with a turn limit that is barely enough for you to sprint to the objective and destroy it, and then pray as the 4 pods that you aggroed along the way rain down on you from the ceilings and wipe out your entire squad while your overwatches miss. Only to go back to the world map and see the Avatar gaining its 3rd ping in the same week due to RNG dark events.

XCOM 2 is overwhelming in a way that makes you feel helpless. Because you are. Better read some Reddit threads and restart the whole thing, doing only the absolutely most optimal things. Why do the rest of the options exist again?

You can mod out all the crazy 8 turn limits and massive random spikes in Avatar progress though. Great. What you are left with then is an extremely easy game. Guess why. Because that's what it is. An extremely easy game, made hard only through RNG rigged to screw you as a core design philosophy. The encounters themselves are easy and the maps are poorly designed, like everything procedural. There's no actual depth. There are no "damn, I'm a genious" moments as you lure an overwhelming force back to a well fortified position with half of your squad lying in the perfect ambush. The game gives you no time to think. No time to strategize. No time to have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:25 
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Steam Reviewer wrote:
Personally, I'd prefer a more tightly designed game that is harder than this (more enemies in maps +bigger maps +more "puzzle-y" encounters), but without the timers and stress and RNG everywhere. I'd rather have developer-designed maps and missions with tough encounters where you need to utilize the terrain and your equipment in the right way

Which is basically what XCOM:EU was.

Then, once all the players had exhausted every possible way of playing that, and had min-maxed it to shit, they asked for - nay, demanded - procedural maps, turn limits to add tension (the first workings of which were added in Enemy Within.), and more depth to the Geoscape.

So Firaxis do this, and everyone moans.


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 Post subject: Re: Xcom UFO Defence
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:29 
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To be fair, if you add timers because a bunch of players say 'we want it to be more stressful', the absolute very first thing you add is an option to turn off the timers. Because then everyone's happy, surely?

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