Be Excellent To Each Other

Sometimes it's little slips like these that can turn the game.

Malc

Why did you think you were the doctor? When you made your guess, I mean?

And if you are not bad, then I will get killed tonight (if you are indeed the Doctor and hence cannot protect me), or lynched tomorrow.

There could be 2 reasons for that though

1) They don't know they are the doctor
2) If they come forward now, they are probably going to be lynched today or killed tonight.

Malc

We've already ascertained that very few people know their roles, and Doctor is an impossible one to work out in this game.

Everything you say is getting more and more suspicious.

Random guess mainly. I knew I wasn't likely to be a killer as my targets were still alive, and my contacts had come to nothing so I thought probably wasn't in a gang. So i plucked a power role that could fit that situation.

or

3) I am the bloody doc!

or 4) there is no doctor.

Exactly. One more night of protection for you, versus your certain death, the only person who seems to have good information out in the open and is an asset to the town.

Lynch me today and we lose us both.

I suspect the notes are coming from the hacker then...
I see no reason why they would be false though, and I also see no reason why Grim.. could not be a mason & an undiscovered mafia goon too. I would not put it past Boobies to plant a masonic mafia mole.
I also don't think it beyond the realms of possibility that the hacker could be cocking it up & baddies = goodies (tho we only have 2 messages.. what happened on the first night i wonder?)

If anything, that puts added pressure on Grim...

However:
Trooper, Since day one you have been twitching peoples FoS-o-meters like nobodies business. Claiming to be doctor this early in the day seems rather desperate (and following on the previous days discussion of what people picked seems doubly suss)

So...
If we vote for Trooper:

If he is a bad guy - woo, and we also have a good indication that the 'notes' are correct, and Grim.. is either lying or is a secret goon & doesn't know it (not contacted a live one yet?)

If he is the doctor - well, if he is (and if mafia know he isn't one of them - yet) then he will probably get nobbled tonight anyway. He could always be a mafia-doctor.

However - if we lynch him and is was a normal doctor, we know the notes are wrong, and APOD will probably buy the farm tonight if there are no other doctors around to help - so it is worth APOD spewing his guts early.
Quite frankly, after the role claim & info, I suspect APOD will be soon for the chop, so any lynch Trooper action will result in dead APOD tonight.


If we vote for Grim...
We get feedback on whether the notes are right or wrong.
At worst we lose a mason, who apart from the ability to chat & block-vote to an extent, is not an earth-shattering loss.
If Trooper is really a doctor, then he will probably get nobbled tonight but we should with any luck get another night of APOD info.
If Trooper is really a baddie, then APOD dies tonight still whatever happens.

There are probably more pros & cons on both sides, if people can untwist the implications here (I have to go do stuff for a bit), but this should be enough to get started My current gut feeling is while they are both probably lying scumbags, lynching Grim.. at least leaves the possibility of 1 more night of APOD info...

Main upshot of this train of thought - we need all the info from APOD as soon as possible, partly so it is out there if he dies tonight, and also so we can determine if another night is likely to contain enough info that the chance of keeping him alive for one more night is worth not lynching Trooper.

for what it's worth, and in the spirit of sharing info that might be useful after I am gone. I'm currently believing Grim... and think Craster, APOD and Mimi are on the level. FOS is currently pointed directly at krazywookie, so much so that [vote: krazywookie] seems appropriate, for following up with the same lie that both Grim... and I did, but with no explanation as of yet.

[vote:trooper] Sorry, but I feel that something is not right.

Does the TV have a counter today?

krazywookie: 1 (Trooper)
trooper: 6 (ApplePieOfDestiny, Craster, Mimi, Malc, Grim..., KovacsC)

Not voted: 9 (runcle, mr russell, myp, mr dom, thevision, bobbyaro, krazywookie, joans, alarm)

With 16 players alive, 9 votes are required for a lynch, and 9 nolynch votes are required to not lynch anybody.

http://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/counter/work.php

Found it

I need to re-read the notes the TV is taking of our conversations, but I can't work out whether a hacker role is complete and utter bollocks. APoD: do you just get vagaries of the numbers in each group?

I need to go lie down for a couple of hours or so, so if i'm not responding to anything, please don't assume that is suspicious as well!

Re the Hacker the only information I have is that on night 2, Someone was hacked. The only role that we see so far where hacking would be relevant seems to be me.

So, maybe worth hacking me again tonight, should I be massacred. Note, I still got night 2 information, despite the hacking. This could mean that I was hacked and the information I got was tampered with. No matter, as I've not quoted anything from that night anyway. No hacking happened last night, so either way, it feels like last nights information can be trusted.

Oh, so you're not a hacker, but you yourself were hacked! So you just have access to this printout then?

I assume so, as it seems to fit that role. It would mean that someone possibly knows that all I have said is true, but it would possibly be unwise for them to verify it now.

I would suggest that the person that got hacked was krazywookie, given that he made that vote for you then denied ever having done it. It would also explain what the hacker role does.

Did everyone check their post history to look for votes they didn't make or messages they didn't send?

Do we think a Hacker would be mafia, townie or lone wolf?

Also, a lot of the analysis seems to be whether Trooper is Mafia or Dr, but he could be cult and doctor. And there is always the possibility that he could be a Mafia Doctor.

I wonder if Boobies would even admit to that, if a Mafia doctor asked if h was a doctor would the answer be 'yes' or 'no'?

Also also, I don't believe anyone would ask if they were a Doctor anyway.

"I targeted him, and he's not dead so I must be the doctor!"

Bit of a leap!

Malc

This may be true. We never did find out why krazywookie didn't (attempt to) change/null this supposed false vote, though. This leads me to think there is something suspicious there.

Alternatively, he may have intended to vote for APOD, and this supposedly enforced vote was a serendipitous event.

I also think APOD should tell us everything he can - if we nobble Trooper (which appears to be the way the wind is blowing today), there is a very good bet that APOD will not be here in the morning to tell us any more (whether Trooper is a doctor or not)


I mentioned this in my big post on page 2, but it was right at the end of the page & other people were talking at the same time, so it appears to have been mostly missed

Also, even if Trooper is a bad-guy, I can see the bad guys rushing this vote before APOD has a chance to say much more.

Not really a rush, as the voting appears to have stopped.

I've got no more to say, I'm afraid.

You were going to tell us how many mafia there are.

I asked if I was the doctor because I didn't think I was in a group and nothing had happened to my targets. It was a shot in the dark that played out.
You're going to kill me for a lucky guess? It's a known role type. Why wouldn't I guess it? If I had guessed hacker or crazy guy who gets weird italic messages, then sure, that is unbelievable. But to guess a common role type that fit with my actions is apparently unbelievable

And speaking of crazy italic messages. Malc? Anything that could help?

Either 2 plus 1 who doesn't know, or 3 plus one who doesn't know. The Mafia who know don't know who the one who doesn't know is. Know.

"I targeted a couple of people, neither of them are dead, and I contacted a couple of people, in which nothing happened, nor have I been contacted. I wonder if I could be the doctor?"

Much less of a leap when you use the actual events.

Roleclaims-wise then (ish) we've had:
Trooper - doctor
Grim... - Mason
APoD - Reader of printouts
Malc - Receiver of visions

Any others I've missed, or any new ones come to light?

As stated already, I can't remember anything from last night. I wonder if I was roleblocked or something?

Malc

I would assume "Another Insignificant Test Subject" in that situation.

Malc

Someone can send messages.

Much less of a leap when you just copy the exact explanation I gave yesterday for why I asked if I was a Doctor, you mean?

And I assume you were told that you weren't the doc, for obvious reasons.

I don't remember what you said exactly, but I'll go check after writing this.
God forbid two people would do the same thing though, for basically the same reasons!
So you agree that asking if I was the doc wasn't a crazy thing to do, thank you.

Looking back...
"I guessed Doctor - because I figured that was the hardest role to figure out whether you had it or not - and was told I was wrong."
compared to
"I targeted a couple of people, neither of them are dead, and I contacted a couple of people, in which nothing happened, nor have I been contacted. I wonder if I could be the doctor?"
is a fucking loose definition of exact, whatever way you look at it!

I'm going to [vote:Trooper] unless any other evidence comes along.

This action will get APOD killed.

Grim...'s a mason and has reason to suspect you, so I'm piling on.

APOD - can you 'show' us the printouts for the three nights?
We may be able to work more stuff out if we had the full text of what they say.

Fair enough, just making sure you know that is what you (and everyone else who has voted for me) are doing. It'll be helpful tomorrow I expect

Oh Lord. I'm not going on much beside "I don't think he's telling the truth.".

There's no need to rush...

The thing that gets me is the notes saying Grim.. and Trooper are bad guys...

I am inclined to believe the notes.
But.. from what APOD says at least one of them may not know they are a bad guy

Questions that arise:
Are there only 1 set of bad guys?
Is there a cult as well as a mafia out there?
Do the masons count as bad guys for some reason (at least to the hacker)?

The way I see it, we need to off Trooper & Grim to get the full story, it comes down to a question of which order we do it

Sorry, not the hacker, the psychic or whatever...

The hacker makes sense in terms of 1 hack reported & that's when krazywookie went krazy, so that ties up quite well. hacker may have some strange requirement for a successful 'hack', tho what the point of forcing a vote like that is is a bit hazy...

There is pretty much zero chance of me surviving the night anyway, so you'll get my story tomorrow morning regardless!

If I am, I don't know it, but I fully accept that I (like everyone else) could be a bad guy. That would be strange, however, to say the least - I've read about these situations a lot and I've never known one where it's possible for different "conversation groups" to cross over, and nothing has happened to the people I've targeted either.